[Bug localedata/32239] New: need a locale for Montenegrin language in Montenegro

[Bug localedata/32239] New: need a locale for Montenegrin language in Montenegro

[bruno at clisp dot org]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=32239

            Bug ID: 32239
           Summary: need a locale for Montenegrin language in Montenegro
           Product: glibc
           Version: 2.40
            Status: UNCONFIRMED
          Severity: normal
          Priority: P2
         Component: localedata
          Assignee: unassigned at sourceware dot org
          Reporter: bruno at clisp dot org
                CC: libc-locales at sourceware dot org
  Target Milestone: ---

The language spoken in Montenegro is called Montenegrin [1]. Although the
languages Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian, Montenegrin are so close that some people
consider them to be the same language [2], Montenegrin has an ISO 639 code of
its own since 2017 [3].

glibc currently has a single locale for Montenegro: sr_ME, i.e. Serbian written
with Cyrillic letters. It was created by Danilo Segan in 2003.

Since then, four things have changed:
1) Montenegro became independent in 2006 [4].
2) The Montegegrin alphabet was adopted in 2009 [5]. Is comes as actually two
alphabets, one with Cyrillic letters and another one with Latin letters.
3) The Latin script is now "much more widely used in all aspects of the
day-to-day written communication in the country, in education, advertising and
media" [5].
4) The ISO 639 code 'cnr' was assigned. [3]

Therefore, I believe a locale 'cnr_ME' should be added, that uses the
Montegegrin Latin alphabet.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montenegrin_language
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_on_the_Common_Language
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montenegrin_language#Language_standardization
[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montenegro#Independence
[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montenegrin_alphabet

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[Bug localedata/32239] need a locale for Montenegrin language in Montenegro

[carlos at redhat dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=32239

Carlos O'Donell <carlos at redhat dot com> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 CC|                            |carlos at redhat dot com
   Last reconfirmed|                            |2024-10-08
     Ever confirmed|0                           |1
             Status|UNCONFIRMED                 |NEW

--- Comment #1 from Carlos O'Donell <carlos at redhat dot com> ---
Bruno,

I agree it seems reasonable to create a new cnr_ME for use by Montenegro, but
we would need the help of someone speaking Montenegrin to put it together. I'm
happy to help mentor someone to get that patch ready or review one.

I looked briefly at upstream CLDR and they don't have a cnr_ME locale either,
currently only sr_* variants. I think it would equally be valuable to have a
cnr_ME locale for CLDR since some applications use CLDR exclusively, and glibc
tries to harmonize with CLDR where possible.

Setting this to "NEW" since I agree this is something that could be improved.

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[Bug localedata/32239] need a locale for Montenegrin language in Montenegro

[dsegan at gmx dot net]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=32239

Danilo Segan <dsegan at gmx dot net> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 CC|                            |dsegan at gmx dot net

--- Comment #2 from Danilo Segan <dsegan at gmx dot net> ---
I've seen an email from Bruno in my dsegan@gmx.net inbox which I don't use much
anymore, so let me paste here what I replied to him too:

> I am happy to consult some of my Montenegrin friends if the locale data is still valid, but it is my understanding that the introduction of Montenegrin language was mostly a symbolic effort to recognize that the language is really a part of pluri-centric language (which used to be called Serbo-Croatian), so not much needs to change to introduce a Montenegrin locale (the proposed additions to the alphabet haven't yet materialized). This seems to be supported by Wikipedia page at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montenegrin_language — I mostly raise this as support that not much needs to change in sr_ME locale other than default script.

> Checking out https://www.skupstina.me/ (Montenegro parliament) seems to confirm all the things I've checked (dates, addresses are the same), and only the default script is now Latin script for Montenegrin.

> I believe I've long ago shared sr@jekavian that was supposed to represent the dialect spoken in Bosnia or Montenegro, but Ulrich Drepper was pretty adamant that this wasn't going to be accepted because of the modifier, so the only thing I could get into GNU libc was sr_ME, and I didn't bother re-fighting the sr@latin battle in there: https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=39 for reference.

> Though we'd probably want to make Latin script the default and introduce cnr_ME@cyrillic instead.  Using the recode-sr-latin from GNU gettext should do the job if the locale was converted to UTF-8. 

To add to that:

When I did prepare sr_CS@jekavian locale (before Serbia and Montenegro split
off), I did consult native speakers of Jekavian dialect, and I really only
expect that we need to change the script and ISO-639 language codes.

I can't promise to have enough time to resurrect some of my locale-editing
tooling, but if I do, I'll certainly post here with updated locales after
confirming them with Montenegrin friends (though I can't be sure how concerned
with these technicalities they are to even note the differences if any have
happened in date-time, number or address formats, or collation order).

Still, I believe it would be valuable to include cnr_ME and cnr_ME@cyrillic
locales for Montenegrin native speakers, which would certainly raise awareness
and potentially invite actual native contributors to update it if anything has
really changed.

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