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From: Thiago Macieira <thiago.macieira@intel.com>
To: Ville Voutilainen <ville.voutilainen@gmail.com>
Cc: Jonathan Wakely <jwakely.gcc@gmail.com>,
	Thomas Rodgers <trodgers@redhat.com>,
	libstdc++ <libstdc++@gcc.gnu.org>
Subject: Re: C++2a synchronisation inefficient in GCC 11
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 16:53:13 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <4094126.biHxQJKGqB@tjmaciei-mobl1> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAFk2RUa8iCZYQ-b8Pv9yuBfOSikt08rMXcA1MvRQjtX=GO2UcA@mail.gmail.com>

On Friday, 26 February 2021 16:44:44 PST Ville Voutilainen wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Feb 2021 at 02:36, Thiago Macieira <thiago.macieira@intel.com> 
wrote:
> > The danger is not how they're implemented today. The danger is the change.
> > That would imply a pre-change wait() is never woken up by a post-change
> > notify() or vice-versa. That in turn causes deadlocks in latches, barriers
> > and semaphores.
> 
> Then we must be talking about something else than the topic of this
> thread, which says "inefficient". :P

Well, if they were efficient in the first place, we wouldn't need a change. :)

The problem is that they ARE inefficient and they're implemented in such a way 
that a change to make them efficient breaks compatibility with the pre-change 
implementation.

> I need to re-read your patches, but not until tomorrow.

Fair enough. I'm disconnecting from the work VPN right now and won't be 
getting replies. Let me know if I can explain anything, though.

> Well, we want *bold* users to adopt new facilities early. Not all users.
> Feature-testing macros don't cover the problem of innocent users
> accidentally opting in to something that's in flux; the general expectation
> is that innocent users shouldn't do that.

I totally agree.

But how do we allow bold users to adopt the facilities in such a way not to 
endanger the other (italic?) users?

> > > Please explain how your concerns about atomic waits
> > > are *anywhere near* the cost of doing that?
> > 
> > Which part? The part about why I think the implementation should be
> > different? Or the part in which making a change causes future problems?
> 
> The part where there is an ABI break that's insurmountable. But as I
> said, I need to read
> your patches with fresh eyes, not with past-midnight eyes.

Hyvää viikonloppua, Ville.

-- 
Thiago Macieira - thiago.macieira (AT) intel.com
  Software Architect - Intel DPG Cloud Engineering




  reply	other threads:[~2021-02-27  0:53 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 73+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-02-25 22:50 Thiago Macieira
2021-02-26 11:19 ` Jonathan Wakely
2021-02-26 17:37   ` Thiago Macieira
2021-02-26 18:29     ` Jonathan Wakely
2021-02-26 19:30       ` Ville Voutilainen
2021-02-26 21:17         ` Jonathan Wakely
2021-02-26 21:18           ` Ville Voutilainen
2021-02-26 21:39             ` Jonathan Wakely
2021-02-26 18:47     ` Ville Voutilainen
2021-02-26 23:53       ` Thiago Macieira
2021-02-26 23:58         ` Ville Voutilainen
2021-02-27  0:11           ` Thiago Macieira
2021-02-27  0:18             ` Ville Voutilainen
2021-02-27  0:36               ` Thiago Macieira
2021-02-27  0:44                 ` Ville Voutilainen
2021-02-27  0:53                   ` Thiago Macieira [this message]
2021-02-27  1:03                     ` Ville Voutilainen
2021-03-03 14:30                   ` Jonathan Wakely
2021-03-03 17:07                     ` Thiago Macieira
2021-03-03 17:14                       ` Jonathan Wakely
2021-02-27  0:22             ` Marc Glisse
2021-02-27  0:30               ` Ville Voutilainen
2021-02-27  0:43               ` Thiago Macieira
2021-03-03 14:24         ` Jonathan Wakely
2021-03-03 17:12           ` Thiago Macieira
2021-02-26 15:59 ` [PATCH 1/5] std::latch: reduce internal implementation from ptrdiff_t to int Thiago Macieira
2021-02-26 15:59   ` [PATCH 2/5] Atomic __platform_wait: accept any 32-bit type, not just int Thiago Macieira
2021-03-03 14:34     ` Jonathan Wakely
2021-03-03 16:21       ` Jonathan Wakely
2021-03-03 17:27         ` Thiago Macieira
2021-03-03 17:34         ` Ville Voutilainen
2021-03-03 17:41           ` Jonathan Wakely
2021-02-26 15:59   ` [PATCH 3/5] std::__atomic_wait: don't use __detail::__waiter with futex Thiago Macieira
2021-02-26 15:59   ` [PATCH 4/5] barrier: use int instead of unsigned char for the phase state Thiago Macieira
2021-02-28 15:05     ` Hans-Peter Nilsson
2021-03-01 16:28       ` Thomas Rodgers
2021-03-01 17:24       ` Thiago Macieira
2021-03-01 17:38         ` Thomas Rodgers
2021-03-01 17:40           ` Thomas Rodgers
2021-03-01 18:06           ` Thiago Macieira
2021-03-01 19:08             ` Thomas Rodgers
2021-03-01 18:12         ` Ville Voutilainen
2021-03-01 19:44           ` Thiago Macieira
2021-03-01 20:35             ` Ville Voutilainen
2021-03-01 21:54               ` Thiago Macieira
2021-03-01 22:04                 ` Ville Voutilainen
2021-03-01 22:21                   ` Thiago Macieira
2021-03-01 22:31                     ` Ville Voutilainen
2021-03-01 22:40                       ` Thiago Macieira
2021-02-26 15:59   ` [PATCH 5/5] barrier: optimise by not having the hasher in a loop Thiago Macieira
2021-03-03 14:36     ` Jonathan Wakely
2021-02-26 18:14   ` [PATCH 1/5] std::latch: reduce internal implementation from ptrdiff_t to int Andreas Schwab
2021-02-26 19:08     ` Thiago Macieira
2021-02-26 19:31       ` Andreas Schwab
2021-02-27  0:13         ` Thiago Macieira
2021-02-28 21:31           ` Hans-Peter Nilsson
2021-03-01  8:56             ` Richard Biener
2021-03-03 14:56               ` Jonathan Wakely
2021-03-03 15:02                 ` Andreas Schwab
2021-03-03 15:10                 ` Jonathan Wakely
2021-03-03 15:37                 ` Hans-Peter Nilsson
2021-03-01 16:32             ` Thomas Rodgers
2021-03-03 14:34   ` Jonathan Wakely
2021-03-03 17:14     ` Thiago Macieira
2021-03-03 17:18       ` Jonathan Wakely
2021-02-27  1:13 ` C++2a synchronisation inefficient in GCC 11 Thomas Rodgers
2021-02-27  1:29   ` Thomas Rodgers
2021-02-27  3:01     ` Thomas Rodgers
2021-03-01 17:46       ` Thomas Rodgers
2021-03-01 18:00         ` Thiago Macieira
2021-03-01 18:34           ` Thomas Rodgers
2021-03-01 19:11             ` Thiago Macieira
2021-02-27  2:02   ` Ville Voutilainen

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