From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from omta001.cacentral1.a.cloudfilter.net (omta001.cacentral1.a.cloudfilter.net [3.97.99.32]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 91FAC3858D3C for ; Thu, 23 Feb 2023 00:03:57 +0000 (GMT) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.4.2 sourceware.org 91FAC3858D3C Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=Shaw.ca Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=shaw.ca Received: from shw-obgw-4001a.ext.cloudfilter.net ([10.228.9.142]) by cmsmtp with ESMTP id UrHtpXj84uZMSUz5ZptKQ9; Thu, 23 Feb 2023 00:03:57 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=shaw.ca; s=s20180605; t=1677110637; bh=XfHa5K+1wXWKqAeO/9zkeuoeyh6NWthMVihdfszE7PY=; h=Date:Reply-To:Subject:To:References:From:In-Reply-To; b=aV8KgoTt7NLrm1CS/GccrdsWE4bLipm57kjpHnspNh6W2um5paHuKDIDKSj6WIGGc r1plQlLO9iE0bc7Ww4A/v0GxwBwM3+alT3IukXBQPu5bUXeE4FWboJELmxwRfz81gn CJ7k8TlGR14DIbsI06fbGI8tnoemYMXuQMQ978e5mZ6gLeDoNq3EA1cWrPMFonhHdT b/VFNZ/GKQX0j7Lyw+ma3+ziamvZhHB57xmKlstvvEthTp0SF2wc9mOzaytdmk8MZJ B/rf07udXnpz3IkJ/wrCJPjh/IwzZz50fR/G+3xkVya5szmAuqyVTMiDWu5/TRfOH0 OIxQyxkkhi4bA== Received: from [10.0.0.5] ([184.64.102.149]) by cmsmtp with ESMTP id Uz5YpDnZqHFsOUz5YpieTa; Thu, 23 Feb 2023 00:03:57 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.4 cv=XZqaca15 c=1 sm=1 tr=0 ts=63f6ad6d a=DxHlV3/gbUaP7LOF0QAmaA==:117 a=DxHlV3/gbUaP7LOF0QAmaA==:17 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=mDV3o1hIAAAA:8 a=MGCz4uwzuvM0hMOmYF4A:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=AP3JQZ_qGYIA:10 a=_FVE-zBwftR9WsbkzFJk:22 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2023 17:03:56 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.8.0 Reply-To: newlib@sourceware.org Subject: Re: [PATCH v3 0/2] newlib/libc/time/strftime: fix multi-page table format issues Content-Language: en-CA To: newlib@sourceware.org References: <20230217204902.3735-1-Brian.Inglis@Shaw.ca> <20230221041801.51970-1-Brian.Inglis@Shaw.ca> From: Brian Inglis Organization: Inglis In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4xfLg/VVGLfyq+E3HPOLsC3hMFhVCk4FiQ+8Dvwh15oqalhs7i100QqUPxWenRbregxPyr82SgzPkW7NFSuWt/442XnA4dqq4dpvFtZpVr8NrAf3qyfdNZ MyMVrt6m9jHZRLHx9kU77zskxFCwiYDk2yXPukXseGhTwQTc3B6c7nQdCwYe5PqMrFvnBtFN4paLRQ== X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,NICE_REPLY_A,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,TXREP autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.6 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.6 (2021-04-09) on server2.sourceware.org List-Id: [Sorry - answered to patches not newlib!] On 2023-02-22 13:10, Jon Turney wrote: > On 21/02/2023 09:15, Corinna Vinschen wrote: >> Jon, >> I'd like your GTG on the patchset before merging it. > Sorry, I don't think this patchset is good as is. >> On Feb 20 21:17, Brian Inglis wrote: >>> Discussion about why newlib man generation by docbook2man is >>> incompatible with how man is incompatible with groff/tbl/grohtml: >>> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-groff/2023-02/msg00118.html >>> There does not appear to be good way to deal in docbook2man processing >>> with generation of tables > "page" size, or that may not adversely affect >>> other [newlib] doc man page tables, as the problem occurs solely on the >>> strftime.3 man page! > So, this seems to be saying that "strftime manpage misrenders under some > circumstances", but I even after re-reading several times, I have no clear sense > what that circumstance is exactly: generating html output? with current version > of groff? a future one? > (Your answer should be a single sentence) Current groff tbl pre-/processing generates table images for non-tty "devices"/file formats where tables > "page" size disappear if it is not handled appropriately, but the proper solution for tbl preprocessor output from groff can not be used, as there is a conflict between man requiring macro .TH and tbl needing command .TH to be passed thru to fix the problem - can't be done! >>> The imminent groff/tbl release fixes a number of tbl issues, so may >>> affect man pages with tables differently. >>> The following groff/grohtml release plans to change grohtml, from >>> generating tables as PNG graphics, which don't work reliably on some >>> "devices"/file formats, and are not searchable, to generating tables in >>> searchable text form on all "devices"/file formats, and fix other >>> related issues, so may also affect man pages with tables differently. >>> So for the current release, localize the changes to the man page chew >>> input embedded in the strftime.c source comments, and the generated >>> strftime.3 man page table formatting. >>> Be prepared to tweak formatting if doc generation needs it, and >>> eventually eliminate custom processing. > I'm not sure "make it look worse in the typical case (someone looking at it in a > terminal with 'man strftime') to make it look better in the atypical case (?)" > is a good trade-off. We could mess up other tables in other man pages if we tried to change makedocbook/docbook2man processing to try to split "long" tables as that depends on the length of the descriptive text column entries in lines and pages, which depends on the "device"/file format! It seems easier, given the future changes above with unknown impacts, to handle the strftime long man page table rendering by splitting the (chew) table about the middle +/-%Ox, which fixes the table length > page length issue, then correcting the generated man page markup, which fixes the non-tty table rendering issue. We could also do all the work just on the generated man page markup, but that seems even "hack"ier to me, than the current proposal. -- Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada La perfection est atteinte Perfection is achieved non pas lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à ajouter not when there is no more to add mais lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à retirer but when there is no more to cut -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry