From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from bumble.maple.relay.mailchannels.net (bumble.maple.relay.mailchannels.net [23.83.214.25]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A9796385C416 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2022 15:51:08 +0000 (GMT) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.4.1 sourceware.org A9796385C416 Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=gotplt.org Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=gotplt.org X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|siddhesh@gotplt.org Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B4635C0A47; Fri, 30 Sep 2022 15:51:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a305 (unknown [127.0.0.6]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 8E0565C0749; Fri, 30 Sep 2022 15:51:06 +0000 (UTC) ARC-Seal: i=1; s=arc-2022; d=mailchannels.net; t=1664553066; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=YtgWNhvhtiSlQvECq1ANdeCa8yYrNIEQY1vK/DWsc7i5lQenVxHiacPIo6/xXAmK7YIsBf KGyCpFcQTYJ6DS8pW1drkg9moFFi1mKcO/tZFrO3xlKlCu7LG250tD6+yK/CoGab17OylY QN3DKRyQEvXX7lQFVgdQav6gocgfCDkWFWendBsxZIvCapdhCI7U2kdfVpDWRT8lDMHgUY E1KYTrQPZyRnlyGflj9IDuPW2TLxj66WWyLdMOJApw1HX9RjDeV+MtFbF9+MCYsM6PxlVZ umsa0hleJ0XcAaHmQjclCMQwhCe9mefPfEZJZRmuip118X8IlLsJcpsBT1Mq0g== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mailchannels.net; s=arc-2022; t=1664553066; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:dkim-signature; bh=SN9OQx0WFfIziwvyXe7/nPbsT1fLJbVV4FtyVvS4NL4=; b=7afRJaWBM3+MGB7Rc4mhvkBJVYF7O2xS22cMFj8rpK30sL0p9EuQhVswwHtmxsZM+S/Gor +U+T+hKXlp0ZCLb4IFBER/kxvLPMbAyKnuuSC8VZs5Cp7zqLyyE7yQ4oJcYD9LPsO3+B6M qfyW1AEKPtnr44lL099wh3xx2XgedPjoZ1HyKY+Mc+BJtvtqRLHG9HA9qVAj4/gEH2H1pI KMmQMsJj0MVazBo7EJb9YMVrs7FU2xc6wG0XTmhBRno2uSx30/yhmGv+ZjwTtISoxNvrlO g8HYlaaLdN41YyXeB+yV2OlYhfiSV4UURY7gh4YB9O0IQZ3bCdjKwQNptk/kDQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; rspamd-7c485dd8cf-v6slv; auth=pass smtp.auth=dreamhost smtp.mailfrom=siddhesh@gotplt.org X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|siddhesh@gotplt.org X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|siddhesh@gotplt.org X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Reign-Eyes: 45f7af061c184d16_1664553066826_3251742502 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1664553066826:2505214931 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1664553066826 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a305 (pop.dreamhost.com [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by 100.126.129.213 (trex/6.7.1); Fri, 30 Sep 2022 15:51:06 +0000 Received: from [192.168.0.182] (bras-vprn-toroon4834w-lp130-16-184-147-84-238.dsl.bell.ca [184.147.84.238]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: siddhesh@gotplt.org) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a305 (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4MfF7s5CQfzBS; Fri, 30 Sep 2022 08:51:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gotplt.org; s=dreamhost; t=1664553066; bh=SN9OQx0WFfIziwvyXe7/nPbsT1fLJbVV4FtyVvS4NL4=; h=Date:Subject:To:Cc:From:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=kUVXgCExDXb99+XMkNMqn77WCE4kZR2XuY17e3j6Y76ydqwhU6Qjqg+6GjJ0qxn34 JHTebszX8pTrRI+UyTqmMNccACrb94ZaCIeHWh0bmx/0o94cXSxofuIg9kp9CQBRR0 YUa90ljERMNppY+B6DSX95WLtkVHv3HZy8Kur1hSK+6NO9QSrP/IhMjONnWAOSv+du NmuQCgyaTiB7MYbRznev/oLHUKkkrLnX94J9gMQ+UcnNm3Hn8wrDeqxWGxeZcXSUYg Tyfi0/+1d75Q8YQCIRA2yT5FpWKUxpG3tQP12bItwmMcBOucrUCNsvobupdnX2ou/N on7w93yLk+A4g== Message-ID: <18919068-9af7-8a8b-9ea4-19e2035d6d78@gotplt.org> Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2022 11:51:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.12.0 Subject: Re: The GNU Toolchain Infrastructure Project Content-Language: en-US To: Andrew Pinski Cc: Overseers mailing list References: <91af050b-c02a-23c8-2002-4740708b251f@gotplt.org> From: Siddhesh Poyarekar In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3032.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,NICE_REPLY_A,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,TXREP autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.6 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.6 (2021-04-09) on server2.sourceware.org List-Id: On 2022-09-30 11:05, Andrew Pinski wrote: > Again you think these two can be independent, Once a technical > decision is made, a monetarial one needs to be made which can be > stopped by the governing board. THIS IS A PROBLEM. > They cannot be independent. Because also at anytime the governing > board could just say fuck off. Unless there are bylaws in place which > have not been sent out anywhere; just this high level picture of what > will happen. Like I said, if there is an irresolvable conflict with the governing board, we can step away from the LF. > Again what is a "major" donor? I don't know, maybe someone else can answer this. >> That's just FUD :) > > Again this was not FUD but rather pointing out what happened in the > past and trying to correct it. If LF/kernel.org folks didn't learn > about social engineering that well; then maybe they are not the best > people to do this. It's FUD because it's wild speculation and casting persistent doubt over someone based on a single past incident. Unless you have credible reason to believe that they've not learned from the incident, you're only casting fear, uncertainty and doubt. >> The overseers >> archives too AFAICT were made public only recently and I only happened >> to discover it last week. > > The archives have been public (or rather semi-public) for over 10 > years now. It might not have been linked from anywhere but they have > existed for a long time now and have been public for that while too. > I am sorry you didn't know about the archives before; but that is on you. Funny that you call it semi-public (whatever that means) and then also say that it's on me that I didn't find the archives. FWIW, I've deliberately looked for the archives in the past and not found it. In any case, we digress. > Sounds like you have no idea how sourceware has function in general. Sounds like you're in a mood to make ridiculous comments. Please consider being a bit more thoughtful in your responses. Both you and I have been in this community for over a decade and statements like this are just immature. >>> ** I get where corporations want to do this because they can track >>> where things come from. But this is very much anti-open/free source >>> ideals and very much anti-small developers >> >> I disagree. > > Disagree all you want but it is the truth. Companies are pushing for > this because they want more control. I want less control and in the > hands of companies and more control in nobody really. Requiring signed commits does not have anything to do with software freedom. In any case, that's a project-specific question. You may discuss that within the gcc community whenever that question comes up there. >> FWIW, there are no viable alternatives to bugzilla at the moment and >> nothing's really intended to change here. > > You didn't comment on funding parts but just saying bugzilla is it > because of no viable alternatives. This is funny because we want ways > of improving things and then you skip that point. The GTI proposal talks about (1) sponsors and (2) an IT team that'll help us with maintenance and porting of what we currently have. It's essentially an expansion of capacity. In that context, bugzilla can move more or less unchanged. Questions about funding improvements to bugzilla are things that we need to figure out as a community through TAC and it will compete for funding with anything else that we propose to do, e.g. improvements to patchwork, pre-commit CI, developer-triggered testing (e.g. build-many-glibcs), maybe even another patch review tool like gerrit or gitlab. We're not there yet. Sid