Re: [macro@ds2.pg.gda.pl: Re: [postmaster@sourceware] failure notice (fwd)]

Re: [macro@ds2.pg.gda.pl: Re: [postmaster@sourceware] failure notice (fwd)]

[Jason Molenda]

On Wed, Jun 21, 2000 at 01:56:44PM -0700, Jason Molenda wrote:

> If you want to add a header to all outgoing mail notes on a mailing list
> (say 'cygwin'), you'd first edit /qmail/lists-sourceware/cygwin/headerremove
> to strip out any existing Resent-To that might be present (or you could end
> up with two of them) and you'll add the hardcoded header that you want to
> /qmail/lists-sourceware/cygwin/headeradd.


Oh wait, I misunderstood what this Resent-To discussion was about
- the person wants to be able to bounce messages to a list without
putting the list name in the To/Cc header.

Whatever.

That script I wrote which replaces ezmlm-reject's functionality
but supports multiple allowable list names (e.g. 'gcc@gcc.gnu.org',
'egcs@egcs.cygnus.com') could probably be adapted to support this
without too much effort.

Is this a common occurance?  Someone has lots of mail notes that
they want to bounce through the cygwin list without fixing the To/Cc?

Jason  (who is commenting entirely out of context, as usual)

Re: [macro@ds2.pg.gda.pl: Re: [postmaster@sourceware] failure notice (fwd)]

[Jason Molenda]

On Wed, Jun 21, 2000 at 01:56:44PM -0700, Jason Molenda wrote:

> If you want to add a header to all outgoing mail notes on a mailing list
> (say 'cygwin'), you'd first edit /qmail/lists-sourceware/cygwin/headerremove
> to strip out any existing Resent-To that might be present (or you could end
> up with two of them) and you'll add the hardcoded header that you want to
> /qmail/lists-sourceware/cygwin/headeradd.


Oh wait, I misunderstood what this Resent-To discussion was about
- the person wants to be able to bounce messages to a list without
putting the list name in the To/Cc header.

Whatever.

That script I wrote which replaces ezmlm-reject's functionality
but supports multiple allowable list names (e.g. 'gcc@gcc.gnu.org',
'egcs@egcs.cygnus.com') could probably be adapted to support this
without too much effort.

Is this a common occurance?  Someone has lots of mail notes that
they want to bounce through the cygwin list without fixing the To/Cc?

Jason  (who is commenting entirely out of context, as usual)

Re: [macro@ds2.pg.gda.pl: Re: [postmaster@sourceware] failure notice (fwd)]

[Chris Faylor]

On Wed, Jun 21, 2000 at 02:00:44PM -0700, Jason Molenda wrote:
>On Wed, Jun 21, 2000 at 01:56:44PM -0700, Jason Molenda wrote:
>> If you want to add a header to all outgoing mail notes on a mailing list
>> (say 'cygwin'), you'd first edit /qmail/lists-sourceware/cygwin/headerremove
>> to strip out any existing Resent-To that might be present (or you could end
>> up with two of them) and you'll add the hardcoded header that you want to
>> /qmail/lists-sourceware/cygwin/headeradd.
>
>
>Oh wait, I misunderstood what this Resent-To discussion was about
>- the person wants to be able to bounce messages to a list without
>putting the list name in the To/Cc header.
>
>Whatever.
>
>That script I wrote which replaces ezmlm-reject's functionality
>but supports multiple allowable list names (e.g. 'gcc@gcc.gnu.org',
>'egcs@egcs.cygnus.com') could probably be adapted to support this
>without too much effort.
>
>Is this a common occurance?  Someone has lots of mail notes that
>they want to bounce through the cygwin list without fixing the To/Cc?

I don't think it is common at all.  Someone tried this with a
bunch of email that he sent to gdb-bugs.  I had told him to send
patches to gdb-patches so he somehow did this using a "Resent-To:"
and was "annoyed" when this didn't work.

If it isn't a twenty second fix to get this working, I don't think
we should worry about it.

cgf

Re: [macro@ds2.pg.gda.pl: Re: [postmaster@sourceware] failure notice (fwd)]

[Chris Faylor]

On Wed, Jun 21, 2000 at 02:00:44PM -0700, Jason Molenda wrote:
>On Wed, Jun 21, 2000 at 01:56:44PM -0700, Jason Molenda wrote:
>> If you want to add a header to all outgoing mail notes on a mailing list
>> (say 'cygwin'), you'd first edit /qmail/lists-sourceware/cygwin/headerremove
>> to strip out any existing Resent-To that might be present (or you could end
>> up with two of them) and you'll add the hardcoded header that you want to
>> /qmail/lists-sourceware/cygwin/headeradd.
>
>
>Oh wait, I misunderstood what this Resent-To discussion was about
>- the person wants to be able to bounce messages to a list without
>putting the list name in the To/Cc header.
>
>Whatever.
>
>That script I wrote which replaces ezmlm-reject's functionality
>but supports multiple allowable list names (e.g. 'gcc@gcc.gnu.org',
>'egcs@egcs.cygnus.com') could probably be adapted to support this
>without too much effort.
>
>Is this a common occurance?  Someone has lots of mail notes that
>they want to bounce through the cygwin list without fixing the To/Cc?

I don't think it is common at all.  Someone tried this with a
bunch of email that he sent to gdb-bugs.  I had told him to send
patches to gdb-patches so he somehow did this using a "Resent-To:"
and was "annoyed" when this didn't work.

If it isn't a twenty second fix to get this working, I don't think
we should worry about it.

cgf

[macro@ds2.pg.gda.pl: Re: [postmaster@sourceware] failure notice (fwd)]

[Chris Faylor]

Would it make sense to allow mail with a "Resent-To: somemailinglist@sourceware.com"
header through to the mailing list?

This person was very annoyed and inconvenienced.  It is part of the RFC for specifying
a destination email address.

cgf

----- Forwarded message from "Maciej W. Rozycki" <macro@ds2.pg.gda.pl> -----

On Wed, 21 Jun 2000, Chris Faylor wrote:

> > Well, it's already stated in qmail's response so you wrote nothing new.
> >The question is whether it is really desirable.  I found this annoying.
> 
> Can you point me to an RFC that details the use of "Resent-To:"?  If
> this is a standard header that has known properties then we may consider
> using it.

 RFC-822, paragraph C.3.3 and RFC-2076, paragraph 3.14.

> Otherwise, the fact that it shows up in a header does not mean much.

 MTAs should not filter messages based on their contents.  Anyway, it's
your site and your policy.  I won't argue with you as it's none of my
business.  I'm just pointing out this annoyance.

-- 
+  Maciej W. Rozycki, Technical University of Gdansk, Poland   +
+--------------------------------------------------------------+
+        e-mail: macro@ds2.pg.gda.pl, PGP key available        +

----- End forwarded message -----

[macro@ds2.pg.gda.pl: Re: [postmaster@sourceware] failure notice (fwd)]

[Chris Faylor]

Would it make sense to allow mail with a "Resent-To: somemailinglist@sourceware.com"
header through to the mailing list?

This person was very annoyed and inconvenienced.  It is part of the RFC for specifying
a destination email address.

cgf

----- Forwarded message from "Maciej W. Rozycki" <macro@ds2.pg.gda.pl> -----

On Wed, 21 Jun 2000, Chris Faylor wrote:

> > Well, it's already stated in qmail's response so you wrote nothing new.
> >The question is whether it is really desirable.  I found this annoying.
> 
> Can you point me to an RFC that details the use of "Resent-To:"?  If
> this is a standard header that has known properties then we may consider
> using it.

 RFC-822, paragraph C.3.3 and RFC-2076, paragraph 3.14.

> Otherwise, the fact that it shows up in a header does not mean much.

 MTAs should not filter messages based on their contents.  Anyway, it's
your site and your policy.  I won't argue with you as it's none of my
business.  I'm just pointing out this annoyance.

-- 
+  Maciej W. Rozycki, Technical University of Gdansk, Poland   +
+--------------------------------------------------------------+
+        e-mail: macro@ds2.pg.gda.pl, PGP key available        +

----- End forwarded message -----

Re: [macro@ds2.pg.gda.pl: Re: [postmaster@sourceware] failure notice (fwd)]

[Jeffrey A Law]

  In message < 20000621115409.A16014@cygnus.com >you write:
  > Would it make sense to allow mail with a "Resent-To: somemailinglist@source
  > ware.com" header through to the mailing list?
It would probably require twiddling ezmlm-reject.c (search for "to:"), but
wouldn't be all that difficult if we need to do it.

However, I would be leery of adding this since it would give spammers a
way to work around the to/cc filter.

jeff

Re: [macro@ds2.pg.gda.pl: Re: [postmaster@sourceware] failure notice (fwd)]

[Jeffrey A Law]

  In message < 20000621115409.A16014@cygnus.com >you write:
  > Would it make sense to allow mail with a "Resent-To: somemailinglist@source
  > ware.com" header through to the mailing list?
It would probably require twiddling ezmlm-reject.c (search for "to:"), but
wouldn't be all that difficult if we need to do it.

However, I would be leery of adding this since it would give spammers a
way to work around the to/cc filter.

jeff

Re: [macro@ds2.pg.gda.pl: Re: [postmaster@sourceware] failure notice (fwd)]

[Chris Faylor]

On Wed, Jun 21, 2000 at 02:39:42PM -0600, Jeffrey A Law wrote:
>
>  In message < 20000621115409.A16014@cygnus.com >you write:
>  > Would it make sense to allow mail with a "Resent-To: somemailinglist@source
>  > ware.com" header through to the mailing list?
>It would probably require twiddling ezmlm-reject.c (search for "to:"), but
>wouldn't be all that difficult if we need to do it.
>
>However, I would be leery of adding this since it would give spammers a
>way to work around the to/cc filter.

But, if they are willing to put effort into generating a 'Resent-To', couldn't
they generate a 'To' just as easily?

cgf

Re: [macro@ds2.pg.gda.pl: Re: [postmaster@sourceware] failure notice (fwd)]

[Chris Faylor]

On Wed, Jun 21, 2000 at 02:39:42PM -0600, Jeffrey A Law wrote:
>
>  In message < 20000621115409.A16014@cygnus.com >you write:
>  > Would it make sense to allow mail with a "Resent-To: somemailinglist@source
>  > ware.com" header through to the mailing list?
>It would probably require twiddling ezmlm-reject.c (search for "to:"), but
>wouldn't be all that difficult if we need to do it.
>
>However, I would be leery of adding this since it would give spammers a
>way to work around the to/cc filter.

But, if they are willing to put effort into generating a 'Resent-To', couldn't
they generate a 'To' just as easily?

cgf

Re: [macro@ds2.pg.gda.pl: Re: [postmaster@sourceware] failure notice (fwd)]

[Jeffrey A Law]

  In message < 20000621165154.A25378@cygnus.com >you write:
  > On Wed, Jun 21, 2000 at 02:39:42PM -0600, Jeffrey A Law wrote:
  > >
  > >  In message < 20000621115409.A16014@cygnus.com >you write:
  > >  > Would it make sense to allow mail with a "Resent-To: somemailinglist@s
  > ource
  > >  > ware.com" header through to the mailing list?
  > >It would probably require twiddling ezmlm-reject.c (search for "to:"), but
  > >wouldn't be all that difficult if we need to do it.
  > >
  > >However, I would be leery of adding this since it would give spammers a
  > >way to work around the to/cc filter.
  > 
  > But, if they are willing to put effort into generating a 'Resent-To',
  > couldn't they generate a 'To' just as easily?
It's been a long time since I did MTA/MUA design, but yes, I think they
probably could.  Why don't they?  I haven't the foggiest idea.
jeff

Re: [macro@ds2.pg.gda.pl: Re: [postmaster@sourceware] failure notice (fwd)]

[Jeffrey A Law]

  In message < 20000621165154.A25378@cygnus.com >you write:
  > On Wed, Jun 21, 2000 at 02:39:42PM -0600, Jeffrey A Law wrote:
  > >
  > >  In message < 20000621115409.A16014@cygnus.com >you write:
  > >  > Would it make sense to allow mail with a "Resent-To: somemailinglist@s
  > ource
  > >  > ware.com" header through to the mailing list?
  > >It would probably require twiddling ezmlm-reject.c (search for "to:"), but
  > >wouldn't be all that difficult if we need to do it.
  > >
  > >However, I would be leery of adding this since it would give spammers a
  > >way to work around the to/cc filter.
  > 
  > But, if they are willing to put effort into generating a 'Resent-To',
  > couldn't they generate a 'To' just as easily?
It's been a long time since I did MTA/MUA design, but yes, I think they
probably could.  Why don't they?  I haven't the foggiest idea.
jeff

Re: [macro@ds2.pg.gda.pl: Re: [postmaster@sourceware] failure notice (fwd)]

[Jim Kingdon]

> Would it make sense to allow mail with a "Resent-To:
> somemailinglist@sourceware.com" header through to the mailing list?

As a matter of policy, yes Resent-to should be like To this way.

As for how it would be done, you might need to hack ezmlm.  At least,
that it what it looked like to me from the ezmlm-reject manpage
(ezmlm-reject is called from the /qmail/lists-sourceware/gdb/editor
file).

Re: [macro@ds2.pg.gda.pl: Re: [postmaster@sourceware] failure notice (fwd)]

[Jim Kingdon]

> Would it make sense to allow mail with a "Resent-To:
> somemailinglist@sourceware.com" header through to the mailing list?

As a matter of policy, yes Resent-to should be like To this way.

As for how it would be done, you might need to hack ezmlm.  At least,
that it what it looked like to me from the ezmlm-reject manpage
(ezmlm-reject is called from the /qmail/lists-sourceware/gdb/editor
file).

Re: [macro@ds2.pg.gda.pl: Re: [postmaster@sourceware] failure notice (fwd)]

[Jason Molenda]

On Wed, Jun 21, 2000 at 04:46:55PM -0400, Jim Kingdon wrote:
> > Would it make sense to allow mail with a "Resent-To:
> > somemailinglist@sourceware.com" header through to the mailing list?
> 
> As a matter of policy, yes Resent-to should be like To this way.
> 
> As for how it would be done, you might need to hack ezmlm.  At least,
> that it what it looked like to me from the ezmlm-reject manpage
> (ezmlm-reject is called from the /qmail/lists-sourceware/gdb/editor
> file).


I'll just add one bit.  I don't know anything about Resent-To or the RFC
that was referenced, I'm just commenting on the ezmlm side of it.

If you want to add a header to all outgoing mail notes on a mailing list
(say 'cygwin'), you'd first edit /qmail/lists-sourceware/cygwin/headerremove
to strip out any existing Resent-To that might be present (or you could end
up with two of them) and you'll add the hardcoded header that you want to
/qmail/lists-sourceware/cygwin/headeradd.

The List-*: headers are added this way.

On the general topic of helping filters and MUAs, there is an RFC
on its way to being finalized with will support the new List-Id
header as well - very nice for identifing notes from mailing lists.
ezmlm-idx 0.53-0.40 (released in December, but not yet on sourceware)
has preliminary support for List-Id.  A MUA that recognizes the
List-Id should be able to tell mailing list notes from non-mailing-list
notes, and even automatically separate different lists' traffic.

Jason

Re: [macro@ds2.pg.gda.pl: Re: [postmaster@sourceware] failure notice (fwd)]

[Jason Molenda]

On Wed, Jun 21, 2000 at 04:46:55PM -0400, Jim Kingdon wrote:
> > Would it make sense to allow mail with a "Resent-To:
> > somemailinglist@sourceware.com" header through to the mailing list?
> 
> As a matter of policy, yes Resent-to should be like To this way.
> 
> As for how it would be done, you might need to hack ezmlm.  At least,
> that it what it looked like to me from the ezmlm-reject manpage
> (ezmlm-reject is called from the /qmail/lists-sourceware/gdb/editor
> file).


I'll just add one bit.  I don't know anything about Resent-To or the RFC
that was referenced, I'm just commenting on the ezmlm side of it.

If you want to add a header to all outgoing mail notes on a mailing list
(say 'cygwin'), you'd first edit /qmail/lists-sourceware/cygwin/headerremove
to strip out any existing Resent-To that might be present (or you could end
up with two of them) and you'll add the hardcoded header that you want to
/qmail/lists-sourceware/cygwin/headeradd.

The List-*: headers are added this way.

On the general topic of helping filters and MUAs, there is an RFC
on its way to being finalized with will support the new List-Id
header as well - very nice for identifing notes from mailing lists.
ezmlm-idx 0.53-0.40 (released in December, but not yet on sourceware)
has preliminary support for List-Id.  A MUA that recognizes the
List-Id should be able to tell mailing list notes from non-mailing-list
notes, and even automatically separate different lists' traffic.

Jason