Re: [postmaster@sources.redhat.com] REQUEST: REMOVE THIS MESSAGE FROM THE INTERNET RE: Christine Datian

Re: [postmaster@sources.redhat.com] REQUEST: REMOVE THIS MESSAGE FROM THE INTERNET RE: Christine Datian

[postmaster]

On Sun, Apr 27, 2003 at 12:57:40AM -0700, John Datian wrote:
>Postmaster: Once again, hello -- my name is Christine Datian.  This is
>a simple request: please remove this message from the Internet, it was
>originally sent as a request to a company regarding software from my
>office.  My name and office phone number should NOT be posted, so what
>is the problem here and why is it so hard for someone to undestand that
>permission was not given by myself or my employer to post the following
>information?
>
>If you cannot help me, please refer me to someone who can.  Here is the
>link to the posting in question.  This is the mail archive of the
>cygwin@cygwin.com mailing list for the Cygwin project:
>
>http://www.cygwin.com/ml/cygwin/2002-06/msg00238.html
>
>What correspondence are you referring to between myself and John
>Datian?

Your current "From" address says "John Datian".  The email in question
was from "Christine Datian".

>This request is simple, but I have not reached one person who can
>assist me and I am getting rather irritated with these games.  Please
>remove this posting from the Internet or I will contact my attorney
>immediately.
>
>Thank you in advance for your cooperation.

I've forwarded this message to overseers@sourceware.org, as previously
suggested.  Your other messages apparently bounced due to html content.
You should have received a message to that effect.  To avoid that
bounced email in the future, you should be able to find a button or
option in your mailer which turns off the sending of html email.

Had you actually succeeded in sending this message to overseers, you
would have, once again, ended up archiving your original phone number
and your contact phone number on our web site.  Please be advised that
if you do not want this, you should not be including your phone number
in your email to public mailing lists.  The vast majority of public
mailing lists archive their messages on the web.

FYI, you also sent two other messages.  One was sent to Red Hat's Investor
Relations Manager.  I'm not sure why you wanted to contact him, but you
are probably pretty safe in that he won't be archiving your email on the
web.

Your other message was sent to the cygwin mailing list.  That also
probably bounced.  Lucky for you.  Had you succeeded, you would have
again caused your email to show up on our web site in the very mailing
list archives that you are currently complaining about.

I will reiterate that it is site policy not to edit email archived on
sources.redhat.com except to occasionally remove viruses from the email.
As is typical for mailing lists throughout the internet, messages sent
to our public mailing lists are archived on our web site.

>Christine Datian
>________________________________________________
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: <postmaster@cygwin.com>
>To: "John Datian" <datian@lvcm.com>
>Cc: <postmaster@cygwin.com>
>Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2003 5:24 PM
>Subject: Re: [postmaster@sources.redhat.com] REQUEST: REMOVE THIS MESSAGE FROM THE INTERNET
>
>
>> I don't know what the correspondence between Christine and John Datian
>> might be but someone sent a message to a *public* mailing list.  Site
>> policy is to not edit messages in the archive except, occasionally, to
>> remove viruses.
>> 
>> You can send email to overseers@sourceware.org (sourceware.org hosts
>> cygwin.com) if you want to debate this policy.  I've set the reply-to to
>> that address.
>> 
>> I've removed Larry Hall from the cc since he *obviously* has nothing to
>> do with this issue.  He was just a helpful individual who attempted
>> to answer your question.
>> 
>> On Sat, Apr 26, 2003 at 05:11:59PM -0700, John Datian wrote:
>> >Postmaster:  
>> >
>>>Hello -- I did not receive a response to my inquiry below, can you
>>>please call or contact me on MON: (xxx) xxx-xxxx at my office to
>>>explain this message.
>>>
>>>Please remove this message (mail archive) from the Internet
>>>immediately, you or your company did not receive permission to post it.

>> >
>> >Thank you.
>> >
>> >Christine Datian
>> >
>> >----- Original Message ----- 
>> >From: John Datian 
>> >To: postmaster@cygwin.com 
>> >Cc: lhall@rfk.com 
>> >Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 9:44 PM
>> >Subject: REQUEST: REMOVE THIS MESSAGE FROM THE INTERNET
>> >
>> >
>> >Postmaster:  
>> >
>>>Please delete this message BELOW from the Internet, this message
>>>contains my name and office phone number and you were not given
>>>permission to post this message.
>>>
>>>Please send me an e-mail verifying that my name and phone number have
>>>been removed immediately.
>> >
>> >Thank you in advance.
>> >Chris Datian
>> >_______________________________________________ 
>> >
>> >This is the mail archive of the cygwin@cygwin.com mailing list for the Cygwin project. 
>> >
>> >
>> >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >      Index Nav: [Date Index] [Subject Index] [Author Index] [Thread Index]  
>> >      Message Nav: [Date Prev] [Date Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] 
>> >      Other format: [Raw text] 
>> >
>> >Re: CYGWIN 1.3.6
>> >  a.. From: "Larry Hall (RFK Partners, Inc)" <lhall at rfk dot com> 
>> >  b.. To: Christine_Datian at notes dot ymp dot gov, cygwin at cygwin dot com 
>> >  c.. Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 17:00:03 -0400 
>> >  d.. Subject: Re: CYGWIN 1.3.6 
>> >
>> >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> >At 04:41 PM 6/5/2002, Christine_Datian@notes.ymp.gov wrote:
>> >>Please respond to let us know if the above software is Windows 2000
>> >>compatible and certified, and Windows XP compatible and certified.  Please
>> >>advise regarding latest upgrades.
>> >>
>> >>Please advise where on your website this information is provided.
>> >>
>> >>Thank you in advance.
>> >>
>> >>Christine Datian - (xxx) xxx-xxxx
>> >>BSC
>> >>Las Vegas, Nevada
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >The main page at www.cygwin.com states that Cygwin is compatible with all
>> >Windows versions except CE.  As for certif
>> >
>> 

Re: [postmaster@sources.redhat.com] REQUEST: REMOVE THIS MESSAGE FROM THE INTERNET RE: Christine Datian

[Per Bothner]

Maybe we should soften this policy.

My suggestion: $100 payable in advance to remove a message from
the archives.  The message is: You did something dumb, but we're
willing to help you cover your ass.  However, it's an inconvenience
for us, so we expect compensation.  Rather like a bounced check fee.
$100 is enough to get the message across.  Anything more might be
viewed as extortionate.  $50 might be reasonable as well, depending
on how much work is involved.

If the work is done by Red Hat employees, it would be perfectly
reasonable for the fee to be payable to Red Hat.  However. I
think it may be wiser to make it payable to the FSF, especially
if this is mostly volunteer work, some by non-Red Hat people
like Jason, and because some of the lists may be GNU lists.
-- 
	--Per Bothner
per@bothner.com   http://per.bothner.com/

Re: [postmaster@sources.redhat.com] REQUEST: REMOVE THIS MESSAGE FROM THE INTERNET RE: Christine Datian

[Gerald Pfeifer]

On Sun, 27 Apr 2003, Per Bothner wrote:
> My suggestion: $100 payable in advance to remove a message from
> the archives.  The message is: You did something dumb, but we're
> willing to help you cover your ass.  However, it's an inconvenience
> for us, so we expect compensation.  Rather like a bounced check fee.
> $100 is enough to get the message across.  Anything more might be
> viewed as extortionate.  $50 might be reasonable as well, depending
> on how much work is involved.

I like this idea very much, though I'm not sure how the FSF will react
if we apply this on the gcc.gnu.org side; I could foresee problems there.

(For sources.redhat.com archives it certainly looks fine, though a
donation to the FSF or similarly would be preferrable.)

Gerald
-- 
Gerald Pfeifer (Jerry)   gerald@pfeifer.com   http://www.pfeifer.com/gerald/

Re: [postmaster@sources.redhat.com] REQUEST: REMOVE THIS MESSAGE FROM THE INTERNET RE: Christine Datian

[Christopher Faylor]

On Sun, Apr 27, 2003 at 11:09:07PM -0700, Per Bothner wrote:
>Maybe we should soften this policy.
>
>My suggestion: $100 payable in advance to remove a message from the
>archives.  The message is: You did something dumb, but we're willing to
>help you cover your ass.  However, it's an inconvenience for us, so we
>expect compensation.  Rather like a bounced check fee.  $100 is enough
>to get the message across.  Anything more might be viewed as
>extortionate.  $50 might be reasonable as well, depending on how much
>work is involved.
>
>If the work is done by Red Hat employees, it would be perfectly
>reasonable for the fee to be payable to Red Hat.  However.  I think it
>may be wiser to make it payable to the FSF, especially if this is
>mostly volunteer work, some by non-Red Hat people like Jason, and
>because some of the lists may be GNU lists.

I like this idea except for the FSF part.  Most of these types of
requests are from cygwin users, which is not an FSF product.  I don't
see any reason for the FSF to benefit from my activities regarding
cygwin.  Actually, I don't see any reason for Red Hat to benefit in this
regard, either.  But, then, if I gave this person my Pay Pal account
that would probably look sort of funny, too.  So, I dunno.

One problem was that, until this weekend, our policy wasn't advertised.
It probably wouldn't have helped in this case except for being able to
point at a web page and saying "See, we told you", but I think that's
valuable.

So, I don't know what to do.  I don't want to spend all of my time
editing web pages but I sympathize with people who don't want their
personal information broadcast, even though the majority of them notice
long after the cow has left the barn.

This particular person's phone number is already available via google in
a couple of places not associated with sources.redhat.com, fwiw.

Just to make my life easier would anyone mind if I actually edited this
page?  I'm spending too much time dealing with this issue.  I'd like to
just make it go away.

Hey, how about a new site policy -- we'll remove phone numbers on request
if permission is granted here by more than two maintainers?

cgf

Re: [postmaster@sources.redhat.com] REQUEST: REMOVE THIS MESSAGE FROM THE INTERNET RE: Christine Datian

[Christopher Faylor]

On Mon, Apr 28, 2003 at 11:06:07AM -0400, Christopher Faylor wrote:
>Just to make my life easier would anyone mind if I actually edited this
>page?  I'm spending too much time dealing with this issue.  I'd like to
>just make it go away.

Actually, just to make this easier, if anyone has any objections to this
please respond within the next 24 hours.  Otherwise, I'll just remove the
number from the web page.

I *really* hate to let totally clueless whiners win but when this starts to
materially affect my day, I can tell I'm fighting a losing battle.

cgf

Re: [postmaster@sources.redhat.com] REQUEST: REMOVE THIS MESSAGE FROM THE INTERNET RE: Christine Datian

[Gerald Pfeifer]

On Mon, 28 Apr 2003, Christopher Faylor wrote:
> Actually, just to make this easier, if anyone has any objections to this
> please respond within the next 24 hours.  Otherwise, I'll just remove the
> number from the web page.

By all means, do whatever is most convenient for you here

After all, you are a volunteer donating his precious time!

> I *really* hate to let totally clueless whiners win but when this starts
> to materially affect my day, I can tell I'm fighting a losing battle.

Agreed.  Provide me your postal address, and I'll mail you some Mozart-
kugeln to sweeten up your day (unless you have diabetes, that is).

Gerald
-- 
Gerald Pfeifer (Jerry)   gerald@pfeifer.com   http://www.pfeifer.com/gerald/