[gnu.org #265428] Export Compliance and Schedule B numbers

[gnu.org #265428] Export Compliance and Schedule B numbers

[Tony Wieczorek via RT]

I'm sorry, but as this is only a general contact address, I cannot
properly answer technical questions such as yours.  The best I can do is
refer you to the GCC Manual (http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/) and
Frequently Asked Questions (http://gcc.gnu.org/faq.html).  If neither of
those provide an answer to your question, please contact the GCC users'
help list; you can learn more about it at <http://gcc.gnu.org/lists.html>.

I am sorry that I couldn't be of more help.


> [helene.rutherford@eds.com - Mon Jan 09 10:19:42 2006]:
> 
> 
> Hi - I am searching for the Export Control Classification Number (ECCN)
> for 
> GCC 3.4 Release Series, Source Code available on the web.
> Everything that leaves the US by any method has to have an ECCN even a
> pencil and adobe reader has an ECCN, our company uses your GCC software,
> and for us to use it outside the US we need to apply your ECCN to it. 
> Can you help?
> 
> Helene M. Rutherford
> EDS - ITO Service Management
> Export Compliance Coordinator
> 248-754-7635
> 
> 
> NOTE - This message contains information which may be confidential and
> privileged. Unless you are the intended addressee (or authorized to
> receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy, or disclose to anyone
> the message or any information contained in this message.  If you have
> received this message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail
> and delete the message. Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
-- 
Tony Wieczorek
Program Assistant
(617) 542-5942

Free Software Foundation
51 Franklin St. Fifth Floor
Boston, MA 02110 USA

Re: [gnu.org #265428] Export Compliance and Schedule B numbers

[Per Bothner]

It does not appear GCC requires an ECCN.

A quick google for "eccn gcc" lead me to:
http://hdf.ncsa.uiuc.edu/HDF5-FAQ.html#eccn
which points to:
http://www.access.gpo.gov/bis/ear/txt/774_sup2.txt
which states:
2.  General Software Note.  License Exception
  TSU ("mass market" software) is available
  to all destinations, except countries in Country
  Group E:1 of Supplement No. 1 to part 740 of
  the EAR, for release of software that is generally
  available to the public by being:

       a.  Sold from stock at retail selling points,
  without restriction, by means of:

            1.  Over the counter transactions;

            2.  Mail order transactions;

            3.  Electronic transactions; or

            4.  Telephone call transactions; and

       b.  Designed for installation by the user without
  further substantial support by the supplier.

Both a.3 and b apply.

Tony Wieczorek via RT wrote:
> I'm sorry, but as this is only a general contact address, I cannot
> properly answer technical questions such as yours.  The best I can do is
> refer you to the GCC Manual (http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/) and
> Frequently Asked Questions (http://gcc.gnu.org/faq.html).  If neither of
> those provide an answer to your question, please contact the GCC users'
> help list; you can learn more about it at <http://gcc.gnu.org/lists.html>.
> 
> I am sorry that I couldn't be of more help.
> 
> 
> 
>>[helene.rutherford@eds.com - Mon Jan 09 10:19:42 2006]:
>>
>>
>>Hi - I am searching for the Export Control Classification Number (ECCN)
>>for 
>>GCC 3.4 Release Series, Source Code available on the web.
>>Everything that leaves the US by any method has to have an ECCN even a
>>pencil and adobe reader has an ECCN, our company uses your GCC software,
>>and for us to use it outside the US we need to apply your ECCN to it. 
>>Can you help?



-- 
	--Per Bothner
per@bothner.com   http://per.bothner.com/

Re: [gnu.org #265428] Export Compliance and Schedule B numbers

[Per Bothner via RT]

It does not appear GCC requires an ECCN.

A quick google for "eccn gcc" lead me to:
http://hdf.ncsa.uiuc.edu/HDF5-FAQ.html#eccn
which points to:
http://www.access.gpo.gov/bis/ear/txt/774_sup2.txt
which states:
2.  General Software Note.  License Exception
  TSU ("mass market" software) is available
  to all destinations, except countries in Country
  Group E:1 of Supplement No. 1 to part 740 of
  the EAR, for release of software that is generally
  available to the public by being:

       a.  Sold from stock at retail selling points,
  without restriction, by means of:

            1.  Over the counter transactions;

            2.  Mail order transactions;

            3.  Electronic transactions; or

            4.  Telephone call transactions; and

       b.  Designed for installation by the user without
  further substantial support by the supplier.

Both a.3 and b apply.

Tony Wieczorek via RT wrote:
> I'm sorry, but as this is only a general contact address, I cannot
> properly answer technical questions such as yours.  The best I can do is
> refer you to the GCC Manual (http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/) and
> Frequently Asked Questions (http://gcc.gnu.org/faq.html).  If neither of
> those provide an answer to your question, please contact the GCC users'
> help list; you can learn more about it at <http://gcc.gnu.org/lists.html>.
> 
> I am sorry that I couldn't be of more help.
> 
> 
> 
>>[helene.rutherford@eds.com - Mon Jan 09 10:19:42 2006]:
>>
>>
>>Hi - I am searching for the Export Control Classification Number (ECCN)
>>for 
>>GCC 3.4 Release Series, Source Code available on the web.
>>Everything that leaves the US by any method has to have an ECCN even a
>>pencil and adobe reader has an ECCN, our company uses your GCC software,
>>and for us to use it outside the US we need to apply your ECCN to it. 
>>Can you help?



-- 
	--Per Bothner
per@bothner.com   http://per.bothner.com/

Re: [gnu.org #265428] Export Compliance and Schedule B numbers

[Per Bothner via RT]

It does not appear GCC requires an ECCN.

A quick google for "eccn gcc" lead me to:
http://hdf.ncsa.uiuc.edu/HDF5-FAQ.html#eccn
which points to:
http://www.access.gpo.gov/bis/ear/txt/774_sup2.txt
which states:
2.  General Software Note.  License Exception
  TSU ("mass market" software) is available
  to all destinations, except countries in Country
  Group E:1 of Supplement No. 1 to part 740 of
  the EAR, for release of software that is generally
  available to the public by being:

       a.  Sold from stock at retail selling points,
  without restriction, by means of:

            1.  Over the counter transactions;

            2.  Mail order transactions;

            3.  Electronic transactions; or

            4.  Telephone call transactions; and

       b.  Designed for installation by the user without
  further substantial support by the supplier.

Both a.3 and b apply.

Tony Wieczorek via RT wrote:
> I'm sorry, but as this is only a general contact address, I cannot
> properly answer technical questions such as yours.  The best I can do is
> refer you to the GCC Manual (http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/) and
> Frequently Asked Questions (http://gcc.gnu.org/faq.html).  If neither of
> those provide an answer to your question, please contact the GCC users'
> help list; you can learn more about it at <http://gcc.gnu.org/lists.html>.
> 
> I am sorry that I couldn't be of more help.
> 
> 
> 
>>[helene.rutherford@eds.com - Mon Jan 09 10:19:42 2006]:
>>
>>
>>Hi - I am searching for the Export Control Classification Number (ECCN)
>>for 
>>GCC 3.4 Release Series, Source Code available on the web.
>>Everything that leaves the US by any method has to have an ECCN even a
>>pencil and adobe reader has an ECCN, our company uses your GCC software,
>>and for us to use it outside the US we need to apply your ECCN to it. 
>>Can you help?



-- 
	--Per Bothner
per@bothner.com   http://per.bothner.com/

Re: [gnu.org #265428] Export Compliance and Schedule B numbers

[Per Bothner via RT]

Rutherford, Helene wrote:
> Per
> 
> Below is just the_* License exception*_** that you can apply to a 
> classified Item, the Export Compliance Classification Number (ECCN) is 
> TOTALLY a different matter (EVERYTHING) leaving the US in anyway has to 
> have a ECCN,

Clearly not "everything".  For example I don't need one when I leave
the US ...

Could you point us to the specific regulation online which specifies
what requires an ECCN?

> for example I'm attaching Microsoft website that has all 
> their software classifications, if your product contains any of 
> Microsoft's products, than your products classification can not be lower 
> than theirs. _http://www.microsoft.com/exporting/default.htm_

We don't use any of MicroSoft's products.
-- 
	--Per Bothner
per@bothner.com   http://per.bothner.com/

Re: [gnu.org #265428] Export Compliance and Schedule B numbers

[Per Bothner via RT]

Rutherford, Helene wrote:
> Per
> 
> Below is just the_* License exception*_** that you can apply to a 
> classified Item, the Export Compliance Classification Number (ECCN) is 
> TOTALLY a different matter (EVERYTHING) leaving the US in anyway has to 
> have a ECCN,

Clearly not "everything".  For example I don't need one when I leave
the US ...

Could you point us to the specific regulation online which specifies
what requires an ECCN?

> for example I'm attaching Microsoft website that has all 
> their software classifications, if your product contains any of 
> Microsoft's products, than your products classification can not be lower 
> than theirs. _http://www.microsoft.com/exporting/default.htm_

We don't use any of MicroSoft's products.
-- 
	--Per Bothner
per@bothner.com   http://per.bothner.com/

RE: [gnu.org #265428] Export Compliance and Schedule B numbers

[Rutherford, Helene via RT]

 
http://www.bis.doc.gov/licensing/exportingbasics.htm

Helene 
>ITO Export Compliance Coordinator
248-754-7635


-----Original Message-----
From: www-data [mailto:www-data@gnu.org] On Behalf Of Tony Wieczorek via
RT
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 11:52 AM
To: Rutherford, Helene
Cc: gnu@gnu.org; overseers@gcc.gnu.org; steve@smc.vnet.net
Subject: [gnu.org #265428] Export Compliance and Schedule B numbers 

I'm sorry, but as this is only a general contact address, I cannot
properly answer technical questions such as yours.  The best I can do is
refer you to the GCC Manual (http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/) and
Frequently Asked Questions (http://gcc.gnu.org/faq.html).  If neither of
those provide an answer to your question, please contact the GCC users'
help list; you can learn more about it at
<http://gcc.gnu.org/lists.html>.

I am sorry that I couldn't be of more help.


> [helene.rutherford@eds.com - Mon Jan 09 10:19:42 2006]:
> 
> 
> Hi - I am searching for the Export Control Classification Number 
> (ECCN) for GCC 3.4 Release Series, Source Code available on the web.
> Everything that leaves the US by any method has to have an ECCN even a

> pencil and adobe reader has an ECCN, our company uses your GCC 
> software, and for us to use it outside the US we need to apply your
ECCN to it.
> Can you help?
> 
> Helene M. Rutherford
> EDS - ITO Service Management
> Export Compliance Coordinator
> 248-754-7635
> 
> 
> NOTE - This message contains information which may be confidential and

> privileged. Unless you are the intended addressee (or authorized to 
> receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy, or disclose to 
> anyone the message or any information contained in this message.  If 
> you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by 
> reply e-mail and delete the message. Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
--
Tony Wieczorek
Program Assistant
(617) 542-5942

Free Software Foundation
51 Franklin St. Fifth Floor
Boston, MA 02110 USA

RE: [gnu.org #265428] Export Compliance and Schedule B numbers

[Rutherford, Helene via RT]

 
http://www.bis.doc.gov/licensing/exportingbasics.htm

Helene 
>ITO Export Compliance Coordinator
248-754-7635


-----Original Message-----
From: www-data [mailto:www-data@gnu.org] On Behalf Of Tony Wieczorek via
RT
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 11:52 AM
To: Rutherford, Helene
Cc: gnu@gnu.org; overseers@gcc.gnu.org; steve@smc.vnet.net
Subject: [gnu.org #265428] Export Compliance and Schedule B numbers 

I'm sorry, but as this is only a general contact address, I cannot
properly answer technical questions such as yours.  The best I can do is
refer you to the GCC Manual (http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/) and
Frequently Asked Questions (http://gcc.gnu.org/faq.html).  If neither of
those provide an answer to your question, please contact the GCC users'
help list; you can learn more about it at
<http://gcc.gnu.org/lists.html>.

I am sorry that I couldn't be of more help.


> [helene.rutherford@eds.com - Mon Jan 09 10:19:42 2006]:
> 
> 
> Hi - I am searching for the Export Control Classification Number 
> (ECCN) for GCC 3.4 Release Series, Source Code available on the web.
> Everything that leaves the US by any method has to have an ECCN even a

> pencil and adobe reader has an ECCN, our company uses your GCC 
> software, and for us to use it outside the US we need to apply your
ECCN to it.
> Can you help?
> 
> Helene M. Rutherford
> EDS - ITO Service Management
> Export Compliance Coordinator
> 248-754-7635
> 
> 
> NOTE - This message contains information which may be confidential and

> privileged. Unless you are the intended addressee (or authorized to 
> receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy, or disclose to 
> anyone the message or any information contained in this message.  If 
> you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by 
> reply e-mail and delete the message. Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
--
Tony Wieczorek
Program Assistant
(617) 542-5942

Free Software Foundation
51 Franklin St. Fifth Floor
Boston, MA 02110 USA

Re: [gnu.org #265428] Export Compliance and Schedule B numbers

[Per Bothner via RT]

Rutherford, Helene wrote:
>  
> http://www.bis.doc.gov/licensing/exportingbasics.htm

So somebody would need to go through the "Commerce Control List"
(available on http://www.access.gpo.gov/bis/ear/ear_data.html)
looking for a 5-character code that applies to Gcc.

I'm sure someone at Red Hat or CodeSourcery (say) has done this,
or is willing to do it, if nothing else as part of a support
contract.  Somebody at the FSF may also have looked into these
issues.

This site:
http://dev.sleepycat.com/resources/faq_search.html?product_id=1&action=print
says "As an open source product, DB does not fall under standard export
controls."  The same would apply to Gcc.  (The page notes that DB does
optionally include cryptographic support - that is not an issue with
Gcc.)

-- 
	--Per Bothner
per@bothner.com   http://per.bothner.com/

Re: [gnu.org #265428] Export Compliance and Schedule B numbers

[Per Bothner via RT]

Rutherford, Helene wrote:
>  
> http://www.bis.doc.gov/licensing/exportingbasics.htm

So somebody would need to go through the "Commerce Control List"
(available on http://www.access.gpo.gov/bis/ear/ear_data.html)
looking for a 5-character code that applies to Gcc.

I'm sure someone at Red Hat or CodeSourcery (say) has done this,
or is willing to do it, if nothing else as part of a support
contract.  Somebody at the FSF may also have looked into these
issues.

This site:
http://dev.sleepycat.com/resources/faq_search.html?product_id=1&action=print
says "As an open source product, DB does not fall under standard export
controls."  The same would apply to Gcc.  (The page notes that DB does
optionally include cryptographic support - that is not an issue with
Gcc.)

-- 
	--Per Bothner
per@bothner.com   http://per.bothner.com/

RE: [gnu.org #265428] Export Compliance and Schedule B numbers

[Rutherford, Helene via RT]

If the items on your website are direct product from Red Hat or
CodeSourcery, it's your responsibility to make sure that the ECCN is
available on these products you have on your website where it is being
exported from. Your website is providing the code to be downloaded by
anyone, anywhere(do you control who and to where the downloads are
executed by?), It's your responsibility to make sure what's on your
website is exportable and has an ECCN assigned and available.

http://www.bis.doc.gov/licensing/ExporterResponsibility.htm

That is why I'm asking you for the ECCN number because our company
downloaded it from your site and for us to export it, the ECCN from the
source is required. 

Helene 
>ITO Export Compliance Coordinator
248-754-7635


-----Original Message-----
From: Per Bothner [mailto:per@bothner.com] 
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 1:33 PM
To: Rutherford, Helene
Cc: info@fsf.org; gnu@gnu.org; overseers@gcc.gnu.org; steve@smc.vnet.net
Subject: Re: [gnu.org #265428] Export Compliance and Schedule B numbers

Rutherford, Helene wrote:
>  
> http://www.bis.doc.gov/licensing/exportingbasics.htm

So somebody would need to go through the "Commerce Control List"
(available on http://www.access.gpo.gov/bis/ear/ear_data.html)
looking for a 5-character code that applies to Gcc.

I'm sure someone at Red Hat or CodeSourcery (say) has done this, or is
willing to do it, if nothing else as part of a support contract.
Somebody at the FSF may also have looked into these issues.

This site:
http://dev.sleepycat.com/resources/faq_search.html?product_id=1&action=p
rint
says "As an open source product, DB does not fall under standard export
controls."  The same would apply to Gcc.  (The page notes that DB does
optionally include cryptographic support - that is not an issue with
Gcc.)

-- 
	--Per Bothner
per@bothner.com   http://per.bothner.com/

RE: [gnu.org #265428] Export Compliance and Schedule B numbers

[Rutherford, Helene via RT]

If the items on your website are direct product from Red Hat or
CodeSourcery, it's your responsibility to make sure that the ECCN is
available on these products you have on your website where it is being
exported from. Your website is providing the code to be downloaded by
anyone, anywhere(do you control who and to where the downloads are
executed by?), It's your responsibility to make sure what's on your
website is exportable and has an ECCN assigned and available.

http://www.bis.doc.gov/licensing/ExporterResponsibility.htm

That is why I'm asking you for the ECCN number because our company
downloaded it from your site and for us to export it, the ECCN from the
source is required. 

Helene 
>ITO Export Compliance Coordinator
248-754-7635


-----Original Message-----
From: Per Bothner [mailto:per@bothner.com] 
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 1:33 PM
To: Rutherford, Helene
Cc: info@fsf.org; gnu@gnu.org; overseers@gcc.gnu.org; steve@smc.vnet.net
Subject: Re: [gnu.org #265428] Export Compliance and Schedule B numbers

Rutherford, Helene wrote:
>  
> http://www.bis.doc.gov/licensing/exportingbasics.htm

So somebody would need to go through the "Commerce Control List"
(available on http://www.access.gpo.gov/bis/ear/ear_data.html)
looking for a 5-character code that applies to Gcc.

I'm sure someone at Red Hat or CodeSourcery (say) has done this, or is
willing to do it, if nothing else as part of a support contract.
Somebody at the FSF may also have looked into these issues.

This site:
http://dev.sleepycat.com/resources/faq_search.html?product_id=1&action=p
rint
says "As an open source product, DB does not fall under standard export
controls."  The same would apply to Gcc.  (The page notes that DB does
optionally include cryptographic support - that is not an issue with
Gcc.)

-- 
	--Per Bothner
per@bothner.com   http://per.bothner.com/

Re: [gnu.org #265428] Export Compliance and Schedule B numbers

[Per Bothner via RT]

Rutherford, Helene wrote:
> If the items on your website are direct product from Red Hat or
> CodeSourcery,

No.  I mentioned them as commercial companies that distribute and
contribute to GCC, and therefore might have the resources and
motivation to properly research this issue.  Both companies
take GCC from our web site (actually our source code control system)
and support/enhance it, not the other way round.

> it's your responsibility to make sure that the ECCN is
> available on these products you have on your website where it is being
> exported from. Your website is providing the code to be downloaded by
> anyone, anywhere(do you control who and to where the downloads are
> executed by?),

No.  We neither can nor will.

> It's your responsibility to make sure what's on your
> website is exportable and has an ECCN assigned and available.
> 
> http://www.bis.doc.gov/licensing/ExporterResponsibility.htm

I Am Not A Lawyer, but my assumption is one or both of these apply:

   transaction is either outside the scope of the EAR or that
   the export is properly designated as “No License Required.”
-- 
	--Per Bothner
per@bothner.com   http://per.bothner.com/

Re: [gnu.org #265428] Export Compliance and Schedule B numbers

[Per Bothner via RT]

Rutherford, Helene wrote:
> If the items on your website are direct product from Red Hat or
> CodeSourcery,

No.  I mentioned them as commercial companies that distribute and
contribute to GCC, and therefore might have the resources and
motivation to properly research this issue.  Both companies
take GCC from our web site (actually our source code control system)
and support/enhance it, not the other way round.

> it's your responsibility to make sure that the ECCN is
> available on these products you have on your website where it is being
> exported from. Your website is providing the code to be downloaded by
> anyone, anywhere(do you control who and to where the downloads are
> executed by?),

No.  We neither can nor will.

> It's your responsibility to make sure what's on your
> website is exportable and has an ECCN assigned and available.
> 
> http://www.bis.doc.gov/licensing/ExporterResponsibility.htm

I Am Not A Lawyer, but my assumption is one or both of these apply:

   transaction is either outside the scope of the EAR or that
   the export is properly designated as “No License Required.”
-- 
	--Per Bothner
per@bothner.com   http://per.bothner.com/

Re: [gnu.org #265428] Export Compliance and Schedule B numbers

[ian@airs.com via RT]

"Rutherford, Helene" <helene.rutherford@eds.com> writes:

> If the items on your website are direct product from Red Hat or
> CodeSourcery, 

They are not.  It's the other way around.  Red Hat and CodeSourcery
ship products developed using software available from gcc.gnu.org.

> it's your responsibility to make sure that the ECCN is
> available on these products you have on your website where it is being
> exported from. Your website is providing the code to be downloaded by
> anyone, anywhere(do you control who and to where the downloads are
> executed by?), It's your responsibility to make sure what's on your
> website is exportable and has an ECCN assigned and available.

Our open source software is indeed downloadable by anyone, anywhere,
at no cost.  This has been the case since at least 1988.  We have
every reason to believe that this is legal.

> That is why I'm asking you for the ECCN number because our company
> downloaded it from your site and for us to export it, the ECCN from the
> source is required. 

We don't have one.  You can keep asking, but you aren't going to get
any other answer.

Ian

Re: [gnu.org #265428] Export Compliance and Schedule B numbers

[ian@airs.com via RT]

"Rutherford, Helene" <helene.rutherford@eds.com> writes:

> If the items on your website are direct product from Red Hat or
> CodeSourcery, 

They are not.  It's the other way around.  Red Hat and CodeSourcery
ship products developed using software available from gcc.gnu.org.

> it's your responsibility to make sure that the ECCN is
> available on these products you have on your website where it is being
> exported from. Your website is providing the code to be downloaded by
> anyone, anywhere(do you control who and to where the downloads are
> executed by?), It's your responsibility to make sure what's on your
> website is exportable and has an ECCN assigned and available.

Our open source software is indeed downloadable by anyone, anywhere,
at no cost.  This has been the case since at least 1988.  We have
every reason to believe that this is legal.

> That is why I'm asking you for the ECCN number because our company
> downloaded it from your site and for us to export it, the ECCN from the
> source is required. 

We don't have one.  You can keep asking, but you aren't going to get
any other answer.

Ian

Re: [gnu.org #265428] Export Compliance and Schedule B numbers

[gerald@pfeifer.com via RT]

On Mon, 9 Jan 2006, Per Bothner wrote:
>> It's your responsibility to make sure what's on your
>> website is exportable and has an ECCN assigned and available.
>> 
>> http://www.bis.doc.gov/licensing/ExporterResponsibility.htm
> I Am Not A Lawyer, but my assumption is one or both of these apply:
> 
>   transaction is either outside the scope of the EAR or that
>   the export is properly designated as ?No License Required.?

Indeed, my employer's lawyers clearly indicated that if something is 
provided for download to the general public (as is the case for GCC
on gcc.gnu.org) as Free Software (which is the case for GCC), one does
not need to apply wrt. to Export Control Regulations.

I'll also point out that companies like Red Hat or Novell have been 
shipping GCC as part of their products for many years, and never has
the need for such a number to be obtained by the GCC developers come
up to the best of my knowledge.

Gerald
-- 
Gerald (Jerry) Pfeifer   gerald@pfeifer.com   http://www.pfeifer.com/gerald/

Re: [gnu.org #265428] Export Compliance and Schedule B numbers

[gerald@pfeifer.com via RT]

On Mon, 9 Jan 2006, Per Bothner wrote:
>> It's your responsibility to make sure what's on your
>> website is exportable and has an ECCN assigned and available.
>> 
>> http://www.bis.doc.gov/licensing/ExporterResponsibility.htm
> I Am Not A Lawyer, but my assumption is one or both of these apply:
> 
>   transaction is either outside the scope of the EAR or that
>   the export is properly designated as ?No License Required.?

Indeed, my employer's lawyers clearly indicated that if something is 
provided for download to the general public (as is the case for GCC
on gcc.gnu.org) as Free Software (which is the case for GCC), one does
not need to apply wrt. to Export Control Regulations.

I'll also point out that companies like Red Hat or Novell have been 
shipping GCC as part of their products for many years, and never has
the need for such a number to be obtained by the GCC developers come
up to the best of my knowledge.

Gerald
-- 
Gerald (Jerry) Pfeifer   gerald@pfeifer.com   http://www.pfeifer.com/gerald/

RE: [gnu.org #265428] Export Compliance and Schedule B numbers

[Rutherford, Helene]

If the items on your website are direct product from Red Hat or
CodeSourcery, it's your responsibility to make sure that the ECCN is
available on these products you have on your website where it is being
exported from. Your website is providing the code to be downloaded by
anyone, anywhere(do you control who and to where the downloads are
executed by?), It's your responsibility to make sure what's on your
website is exportable and has an ECCN assigned and available.

http://www.bis.doc.gov/licensing/ExporterResponsibility.htm

That is why I'm asking you for the ECCN number because our company
downloaded it from your site and for us to export it, the ECCN from the
source is required. 

Helene 
>ITO Export Compliance Coordinator
248-754-7635


-----Original Message-----
From: Per Bothner [mailto:per@bothner.com] 
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 1:33 PM
To: Rutherford, Helene
Cc: info@fsf.org; gnu@gnu.org; overseers@gcc.gnu.org; steve@smc.vnet.net
Subject: Re: [gnu.org #265428] Export Compliance and Schedule B numbers

Rutherford, Helene wrote:
>  
> http://www.bis.doc.gov/licensing/exportingbasics.htm

So somebody would need to go through the "Commerce Control List"
(available on http://www.access.gpo.gov/bis/ear/ear_data.html)
looking for a 5-character code that applies to Gcc.

I'm sure someone at Red Hat or CodeSourcery (say) has done this, or is
willing to do it, if nothing else as part of a support contract.
Somebody at the FSF may also have looked into these issues.

This site:
http://dev.sleepycat.com/resources/faq_search.html?product_id=1&action=p
rint
says "As an open source product, DB does not fall under standard export
controls."  The same would apply to Gcc.  (The page notes that DB does
optionally include cryptographic support - that is not an issue with
Gcc.)

-- 
	--Per Bothner
per@bothner.com   http://per.bothner.com/

Re: [gnu.org #265428] Export Compliance and Schedule B numbers

[Per Bothner]

Rutherford, Helene wrote:
> If the items on your website are direct product from Red Hat or
> CodeSourcery,

No.  I mentioned them as commercial companies that distribute and
contribute to GCC, and therefore might have the resources and
motivation to properly research this issue.  Both companies
take GCC from our web site (actually our source code control system)
and support/enhance it, not the other way round.

> it's your responsibility to make sure that the ECCN is
> available on these products you have on your website where it is being
> exported from. Your website is providing the code to be downloaded by
> anyone, anywhere(do you control who and to where the downloads are
> executed by?),

No.  We neither can nor will.

> It's your responsibility to make sure what's on your
> website is exportable and has an ECCN assigned and available.
> 
> http://www.bis.doc.gov/licensing/ExporterResponsibility.htm

I Am Not A Lawyer, but my assumption is one or both of these apply:

   transaction is either outside the scope of the EAR or that
   the export is properly designated as “No License Required.”
-- 
	--Per Bothner
per@bothner.com   http://per.bothner.com/

Re: [gnu.org #265428] Export Compliance and Schedule B numbers

[Gerald Pfeifer]

On Mon, 9 Jan 2006, Per Bothner wrote:
>> It's your responsibility to make sure what's on your
>> website is exportable and has an ECCN assigned and available.
>> 
>> http://www.bis.doc.gov/licensing/ExporterResponsibility.htm
> I Am Not A Lawyer, but my assumption is one or both of these apply:
> 
>   transaction is either outside the scope of the EAR or that
>   the export is properly designated as ?No License Required.?

Indeed, my employer's lawyers clearly indicated that if something is 
provided for download to the general public (as is the case for GCC
on gcc.gnu.org) as Free Software (which is the case for GCC), one does
not need to apply wrt. to Export Control Regulations.

I'll also point out that companies like Red Hat or Novell have been 
shipping GCC as part of their products for many years, and never has
the need for such a number to be obtained by the GCC developers come
up to the best of my knowledge.

Gerald
-- 
Gerald (Jerry) Pfeifer   gerald@pfeifer.com   http://www.pfeifer.com/gerald/

Re: [gnu.org #265428] Export Compliance and Schedule B numbers

[Ian Lance Taylor]

"Rutherford, Helene" <helene.rutherford@eds.com> writes:

> If the items on your website are direct product from Red Hat or
> CodeSourcery, 

They are not.  It's the other way around.  Red Hat and CodeSourcery
ship products developed using software available from gcc.gnu.org.

> it's your responsibility to make sure that the ECCN is
> available on these products you have on your website where it is being
> exported from. Your website is providing the code to be downloaded by
> anyone, anywhere(do you control who and to where the downloads are
> executed by?), It's your responsibility to make sure what's on your
> website is exportable and has an ECCN assigned and available.

Our open source software is indeed downloadable by anyone, anywhere,
at no cost.  This has been the case since at least 1988.  We have
every reason to believe that this is legal.

> That is why I'm asking you for the ECCN number because our company
> downloaded it from your site and for us to export it, the ECCN from the
> source is required. 

We don't have one.  You can keep asking, but you aren't going to get
any other answer.

Ian

RE: [gnu.org #265428] Export Compliance and Schedule B numbers

[Rutherford, Helene]

 
http://www.bis.doc.gov/licensing/exportingbasics.htm

Helene 
>ITO Export Compliance Coordinator
248-754-7635


-----Original Message-----
From: www-data [mailto:www-data@gnu.org] On Behalf Of Tony Wieczorek via
RT
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 11:52 AM
To: Rutherford, Helene
Cc: gnu@gnu.org; overseers@gcc.gnu.org; steve@smc.vnet.net
Subject: [gnu.org #265428] Export Compliance and Schedule B numbers 

I'm sorry, but as this is only a general contact address, I cannot
properly answer technical questions such as yours.  The best I can do is
refer you to the GCC Manual (http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/) and
Frequently Asked Questions (http://gcc.gnu.org/faq.html).  If neither of
those provide an answer to your question, please contact the GCC users'
help list; you can learn more about it at
<http://gcc.gnu.org/lists.html>.

I am sorry that I couldn't be of more help.


> [helene.rutherford@eds.com - Mon Jan 09 10:19:42 2006]:
> 
> 
> Hi - I am searching for the Export Control Classification Number 
> (ECCN) for GCC 3.4 Release Series, Source Code available on the web.
> Everything that leaves the US by any method has to have an ECCN even a

> pencil and adobe reader has an ECCN, our company uses your GCC 
> software, and for us to use it outside the US we need to apply your
ECCN to it.
> Can you help?
> 
> Helene M. Rutherford
> EDS - ITO Service Management
> Export Compliance Coordinator
> 248-754-7635
> 
> 
> NOTE - This message contains information which may be confidential and

> privileged. Unless you are the intended addressee (or authorized to 
> receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy, or disclose to 
> anyone the message or any information contained in this message.  If 
> you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by 
> reply e-mail and delete the message. Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
--
Tony Wieczorek
Program Assistant
(617) 542-5942

Free Software Foundation
51 Franklin St. Fifth Floor
Boston, MA 02110 USA

Re: [gnu.org #265428] Export Compliance and Schedule B numbers

[Per Bothner]

Rutherford, Helene wrote:
>  
> http://www.bis.doc.gov/licensing/exportingbasics.htm

So somebody would need to go through the "Commerce Control List"
(available on http://www.access.gpo.gov/bis/ear/ear_data.html)
looking for a 5-character code that applies to Gcc.

I'm sure someone at Red Hat or CodeSourcery (say) has done this,
or is willing to do it, if nothing else as part of a support
contract.  Somebody at the FSF may also have looked into these
issues.

This site:
http://dev.sleepycat.com/resources/faq_search.html?product_id=1&action=print
says "As an open source product, DB does not fall under standard export
controls."  The same would apply to Gcc.  (The page notes that DB does
optionally include cryptographic support - that is not an issue with
Gcc.)

-- 
	--Per Bothner
per@bothner.com   http://per.bothner.com/

Re: [gnu.org #265428] Export Compliance and Schedule B numbers

[Per Bothner]

Rutherford, Helene wrote:
> Per
> 
> Below is just the_* License exception*_** that you can apply to a 
> classified Item, the Export Compliance Classification Number (ECCN) is 
> TOTALLY a different matter (EVERYTHING) leaving the US in anyway has to 
> have a ECCN,

Clearly not "everything".  For example I don't need one when I leave
the US ...

Could you point us to the specific regulation online which specifies
what requires an ECCN?

> for example I'm attaching Microsoft website that has all 
> their software classifications, if your product contains any of 
> Microsoft's products, than your products classification can not be lower 
> than theirs. _http://www.microsoft.com/exporting/default.htm_

We don't use any of MicroSoft's products.
-- 
	--Per Bothner
per@bothner.com   http://per.bothner.com/