From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 990 invoked by alias); 5 Mar 2007 22:09:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 982 invoked by uid 22791); 5 Mar 2007 22:09:19 -0000 X-Spam-Check-By: sourceware.org Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com (HELO wx-out-0506.google.com) (66.249.82.235) by sourceware.org (qpsmtpd/0.31) with ESMTP; Mon, 05 Mar 2007 22:09:11 +0000 Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id s8so1683078wxc for ; Mon, 05 Mar 2007 14:09:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.90.25.3 with SMTP id 3mr5246308agy.1173132549982; Mon, 05 Mar 2007 14:09:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.90.50.9 with HTTP; Mon, 5 Mar 2007 14:09:09 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <81c474d20703051409w438529f2x7a562c6933b56eb0@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 22:09:00 -0000 From: "Michael Ambrus" To: sid@sources.redhat.com Subject: Re: Building SID In-Reply-To: <20070305173328.GA8990@redhat.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20070302181049.GD18204@redhat.com> <20070303011808.GC18185@redhat.com> <81c474d20703030457j3775edd7x78211179d3f6d62e@mail.gmail.com> <20070303143422.GD18185@redhat.com> <81c474d20703030639i40a30aa4v6a01be2e4160e4cd@mail.gmail.com> <20070303144102.GF18185@redhat.com> <81c474d20703030700k2b8d4b32h9e323f0bb8ce90a7@mail.gmail.com> <20070303163018.GG18185@redhat.com> <81c474d20703050549n3577b589gdeccea3db5f33ae7@mail.gmail.com> <20070305173328.GA8990@redhat.com> X-IsSubscribed: yes Mailing-List: contact sid-help@sourceware.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: , Sender: sid-owner@sourceware.org X-SW-Source: 2007-q1/txt/msg00044.txt.bz2 > (For popular usage though it's usually better to join a more > established similar project.) That would depend on your personal interests I'd say. I've given it a lot of thought (several years actually) and I came to the conclusion that there isn't any similar project. Ive done a few deeply embedded applications with Linux, enough to know that addressing targets smaller than 4MB RAM + 2M Flash is just not worth the trouble . As far as I know there isn't any kernel that can do what TinKer does - the one that comes closest is RTEMS. But what would be the fun in joining a humongous project? TinKer is my third kernel (I wrote the first one in -89) but I still enjoy very much each time I bring a new target to life. > The ELF reader in sid assumes a loadable program image, and uses the > various segment headers to populate the simulated memory. It does not > perform relocations in the object-file/linkage sense, and it also does > not include support for runtime linkage like ld.so in linux. What > kind of relocation particularly do you need? > TinKer is growing from a kernel to an OS (I never thought it would, but it's within grasp so I figured why not). I.e. code needs to be either loaded to virtual memory regions or relocated into a new memory offset at load time (both techniques have existed for decades). I spent some time today playing around with ELF and various linking options and it turns out that I can relocate certain output formats rather easily, especially PIC formats normally used for dynamic libraries since given certain limitations, it can be used for executables as well (PIE). Reading various ELF specs is tremendously boring (especially those written by Sun or Motorola), but I found the works of this great author that is both fun reading and a great inspiration. If you enjoy good reading and a few laughs: http://www.iecc.com/linker/ Cheers /Michael P.S. I still can't get -tksm to work. I've tried rebuilding without --prefix and installing as root, patching the tclConfig.sh and tkConfig.sh - nothing helps. I can't figure this one out... P.S.