public inbox for sourcenav@sourceware.org
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
* RE: Source-Navigator moves to SourceForge!
@ 2002-05-01 18:52 David Robinson (AU)
  2002-05-01 20:56 ` Mo DeJong
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: David Robinson (AU) @ 2002-05-01 18:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 'Mo DeJong'; +Cc: 'sourcenav@sources.redhat.com'

Hello Mo


Thanks for your hard work. This is a great step forward for Source
Navigator.
It is curiously escaping the shackles of an open source company.

I have a personal interest in the code parsing and cross-reference database.
In fact I have never seriously run the IDE.

There were discussions on the mailing list a while ago about redesigning the
core components into a standalone library. Are there any serious plans to do
this work?


David Robinson.
david-work@robinson-au.net

-----Original Message-----
From: Mo DeJong [mailto:supermo@bayarea.net]
Sent: Tuesday, 30 April 2002 23:24
To: sourcenav
Subject: Source-Navigator moves to SourceForge!


Hello, everyone.

Recently, there has been a lot of discussion about the
status of Source-Navigator, and its future direction.
It has been more than a year since the last release,
and none of the members of the 5.0 engineering team
are currently employed by Red Hat. These problems 
were surmountable, Source-Navigator could have been
hosted on sources.redhat.com, if not for the copyright
assignment problem. Current Red Hat policy dictates
that contributors to Source-Navigator must assign any
copyrights to Red Hat in addition to agreeing to license
them under the terms of the GPL. This has effectively
shutdown any new development of Source-Navigator since
none of the original development team members are willing
to agree to these terms. As a result, the team has decided
to move the project to SourceForge.

So, without further ado.

The new project homepage can be found at:

http://sourcenav.sourceforge.net/

The SourceForge page for developers is here:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/sourcenav

There are also a couple of new mailing lists.

http://sourcenav.sourceforge.net/mail.html


A significant amount of work has gone into upgrading the
Tcl/Tk version used in Source-Navigator, but this work was
never released. We are happy to announce that a new 5.1
version of Source-Navigator will be ready soon. Developers
can even get a sneak peek via CVS, just follow the instructions
on the download page.

http://sourcenav.sourceforge.net/download.html

The current CVS version of Source-Navigator is very close
to what will become 5.1. While the code is not yet ready
for release, it should be ready for some early testing.
The code should build without problems under a variety
of Unix systems. Building with VC++ under Windows works,
but a minor patch is needed (sourcenav-devl archive for info).
Also note that GNU grep will have to be accessible on you
PATH as it is no longer bundled with Source-Navigator.

One issue that remains with the migration to SourceForge
is the bug database currently hosted on source.redhat.com.
We plan on migrating  the data to SourceForge after the 5.1
release. Note that the Tcl/Tk  upgrade fixes a large number
of user interface problems, so those bug reports will not
have to be moved over.

The future of Source-Navigator looks brighter than it has for
some time. However, without corporate sponsorship, it is
imperative that we develop an infrastructure to support
ongoing maintenance and new development. To that end, we
encourage people and organizations to invest in Source-Navigator
and contribute to its development. Contracting with the maintainers
to fix bugs or implement new features can be the most effective
way to move Source-Navigator forward.

cheers
Mo DeJong

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Re: Source-Navigator moves to SourceForge!
  2002-05-01 18:52 Source-Navigator moves to SourceForge! David Robinson (AU)
@ 2002-05-01 20:56 ` Mo DeJong
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Mo DeJong @ 2002-05-01 20:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: sourcenav

On Thu, 2 May 2002 11:51:55 +1000 
"David Robinson (AU)" <David.Robinson@citrix.com.au> wrote:

> There were discussions on the mailing list a while ago about redesigning the
> core components into a standalone library. Are there any serious plans to do
> this work?

I would be happy to discuss this topic with you, provided we can move the
discussion over to the new sourcenav-devl mailing list.

http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/sourcenav-devl

cheers
Mo DeJong

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Re: Source-Navigator moves to SourceForge!
  2002-05-01  0:14   ` Khamis Abuelkomboz
@ 2002-05-01 16:37     ` Mo DeJong
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Mo DeJong @ 2002-05-01 16:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: sourcenav

On Wed, 01 May 2002 09:11:25 +0200
khamis2@t-online.de (Khamis Abuelkomboz) wrote:

> Hi Mo,
> 
> thank you mo for the great work.
> 
> I see that you only checked in Source-Navigator and it's Database. What 
> about the
> rest of the components? are you waiting until you are finished with the 
> 5.1 Release?

No, the other modules are still hosted on sources.redhat.com. The snavigator and db modules exist just as they did in the source navigator CVSROOT. The tcl, tk, itcl, tix, and libgui modules live in the gdb CVSROOT. Red Hat does not own the copyrights to tcl, tk, itcl, and tix, so those modules are not and issue. The libgui module is a bit of a sticking point, but I have not dealt with that issue.

> Since there is noboy who works on SN in redhat, we should define a fix 
> date to switch
> to the SourceForge mailing list.

Do you want to take care of that? Pick a date, post it to the list, and then be sure to post a reply telling folks about the new lists when folks unknowing post to the old one.

> If you add me to the admin and cvs list I would share you the work. 
> However I want to
> release a patch to SN50E that fixes some problems, this would be the 
> last change from
> my side until 5.1 is released.

For now, the only changes going in will be for the 5.1 release. The Tcl/Tk upgrade was a huge amount of work. Getting a release that incorporates those changes and fixes any bugs we can along the way is plenty of work for 5.1. We can talk about what to do after 5.1 on the sourcenav-devl list.

Mo

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Re: Source-Navigator moves to SourceForge!
  2002-05-01  9:00 Davies, Mike
@ 2002-05-01 13:21 ` Mo DeJong
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Mo DeJong @ 2002-05-01 13:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: sourcenav

On Wed, 1 May 2002 11:03:19 -0500 
"Davies, Mike" <MDavies@uk.waukbearing.com> wrote:

> > There are also a couple of new mailing lists.
> > 
> > http://sourcenav.sourceforge.net/mail.html
> 
> Will we need to rejoin the mailing lists or will all the old subscribers be
> automatically moved over ?
> 
> -- 
> Mike Davies

You will need to join the new mailing list(s). The lists are split up based the subjects that will be discussed. The sourcenav-user list will cover end user issues. The sourcenav-devl list will focus on implementation issues and internal details that most end users will not care about. There is also a sourcenav-patch list that can be used to propose, discuss, and review patches. The old mailing list covered each of these on a single list, so I have no way to know what topic or topics each subscribed would be interested in.

cheers
Mo

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* RE: Source-Navigator moves to SourceForge!
@ 2002-05-01  9:00 Davies, Mike
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Davies, Mike @ 2002-05-01  9:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: sourcenav


> If you add me to the admin and cvs list I would share you the work. 
> However I want to
> release a patch to SN50E that fixes some problems, this would be the 
> last change from
> my side until 5.1 is released.

I am using your SN50E version of Sourcenav and finding it useful.  If it's
not too big a patch then could you just post it to the list ?

-- 
Mike Davies

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* RE: Source-Navigator moves to SourceForge!
@ 2002-05-01  9:00 Davies, Mike
  2002-05-01 13:21 ` Mo DeJong
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Davies, Mike @ 2002-05-01  9:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: sourcenav

...snip...  <good news !>
> 
> So, without further ado.
> 
> The new project homepage can be found at:
> 
> http://sourcenav.sourceforge.net/
> 
> The SourceForge page for developers is here:
> 
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/sourcenav
> 
> There are also a couple of new mailing lists.
> 
> http://sourcenav.sourceforge.net/mail.html

Will we need to rejoin the mailing lists or will all the old subscribers be
automatically moved over ?

-- 
Mike Davies

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Re: Source-Navigator moves to SourceForge!
  2002-04-30 17:46 ` Paul Selormey
  2002-04-30 21:58   ` Mo DeJong
@ 2002-05-01  0:14   ` Khamis Abuelkomboz
  2002-05-01 16:37     ` Mo DeJong
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Khamis Abuelkomboz @ 2002-05-01  0:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Mo DeJong; +Cc: sourcenav

Hi Mo,

thank you mo for the great work.

I see that you only checked in Source-Navigator and it's Database. What 
about the
rest of the components? are you waiting until you are finished with the 
5.1 Release?

Since there is noboy who works on SN in redhat, we should define a fix 
date to switch
to the SourceForge mailing list.

If you add me to the admin and cvs list I would share you the work. 
However I want to
release a patch to SN50E that fixes some problems, this would be the 
last change from
my side until 5.1 is released.

khamis

Paul Selormey wrote:

>Hello Mo,
>What I do not understand here is that, you or the other former
>members of the team do not favor GPL. Or is there more to it?
>
>Now, how does the move to SourceForge helps the license issue?
>
>Best regards,
>Paul.
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Mo DeJong" <supermo@bayarea.net>
>To: "sourcenav" <sourcenav@sources.redhat.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 10:23 PM
>Subject: Source-Navigator moves to SourceForge!
>
>
>>Hello, everyone.
>>
>>Recently, there has been a lot of discussion about the
>>status of Source-Navigator, and its future direction.
>>It has been more than a year since the last release,
>>and none of the members of the 5.0 engineering team
>>are currently employed by Red Hat. These problems 
>>were surmountable, Source-Navigator could have been
>>hosted on sources.redhat.com, if not for the copyright
>>assignment problem. Current Red Hat policy dictates
>>that contributors to Source-Navigator must assign any
>>copyrights to Red Hat in addition to agreeing to license
>>them under the terms of the GPL. This has effectively
>>shutdown any new development of Source-Navigator since
>>none of the original development team members are willing
>>to agree to these terms. As a result, the team has decided
>>to move the project to SourceForge.
>>
>>So, without further ado.
>>
>>The new project homepage can be found at:
>>
>>http://sourcenav.sourceforge.net/
>>
>>The SourceForge page for developers is here:
>>
>>http://sourceforge.net/projects/sourcenav
>>
>>There are also a couple of new mailing lists.
>>
>>http://sourcenav.sourceforge.net/mail.html
>>
>>
>>A significant amount of work has gone into upgrading the
>>Tcl/Tk version used in Source-Navigator, but this work was
>>never released. We are happy to announce that a new 5.1
>>version of Source-Navigator will be ready soon. Developers
>>can even get a sneak peek via CVS, just follow the instructions
>>on the download page.
>>
>>http://sourcenav.sourceforge.net/download.html
>>
>>The current CVS version of Source-Navigator is very close
>>to what will become 5.1. While the code is not yet ready
>>for release, it should be ready for some early testing.
>>The code should build without problems under a variety
>>of Unix systems. Building with VC++ under Windows works,
>>but a minor patch is needed (sourcenav-devl archive for info).
>>Also note that GNU grep will have to be accessible on you
>>PATH as it is no longer bundled with Source-Navigator.
>>
>>One issue that remains with the migration to SourceForge
>>is the bug database currently hosted on source.redhat.com.
>>We plan on migrating  the data to SourceForge after the 5.1
>>release. Note that the Tcl/Tk  upgrade fixes a large number
>>of user interface problems, so those bug reports will not
>>have to be moved over.
>>
>>The future of Source-Navigator looks brighter than it has for
>>some time. However, without corporate sponsorship, it is
>>imperative that we develop an infrastructure to support
>>ongoing maintenance and new development. To that end, we
>>encourage people and organizations to invest in Source-Navigator
>>and contribute to its development. Contracting with the maintainers
>>to fix bugs or implement new features can be the most effective
>>way to move Source-Navigator forward.
>>
>>cheers
>>Mo DeJong
>>
>
>

-- 
--
Dipl.-Informatiker
Khamis Abuelkomboz
Rosenweg 124
58239 Schwerte
+49 2304 898560 (Telefon)
+49 2304 898561 (Fax)
http://khamis.oimanager.de



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Re: Source-Navigator moves to SourceForge!
  2002-04-30 17:46 ` Paul Selormey
@ 2002-04-30 21:58   ` Mo DeJong
  2002-05-01  0:14   ` Khamis Abuelkomboz
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Mo DeJong @ 2002-04-30 21:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: sourcenav

On Wed, 1 May 2002 09:50:20 +0900
"Paul Selormey" <paul@toolscenter.org> wrote:

> Hello Mo,
> What I do not understand here is that, you or the other former
> members of the team do not favor GPL. Or is there more to it?

This has nothing to do with the GPL. Only the copyright holder can relicense a given body of code, so the code hosted on Source-Forge will continue to be licensed under the terms of the GPL. The sticking point was the additional requirement to assign the copyright for contributed code to Red Hat. This is unacceptable since it means that Red Hat could take the existing GPLed code and relicense it to a third party under non free terms.

Assume for example that you wrote a really stunning autoconf/automake/libtool interface for Source-Navigator. If you assign the copyright to Red Hat, then they would be within their rights to take that code and sell a proprietary version of it. I am not accusing Red Hat of anything, but the possibility is something that none of the development team members could accept.

For example, consider the new and improved parsers that Khamis has been working on.

http://oimanager.de/sn.htm

These parsers can't be merged into the Red Hat distributed version of Source-Navigator because of this misguided policy. Khamis has to take it upon himself to distribute a new version of Source-Navigator just to work around the issue. I would rather see this time and effort going into improving one code base instead of spreading it out over multiple ones.

> Now, how does the move to SourceForge helps the license issue?

Moving Source-Navigator to SourceForge does not change the license at all. What it does do is get rid of the need for contributors to give up their copyrights. A contributor only needs to agree to license any code under the terms of the GPL. It also means that the developers can actually check changes into the CVS again. Now that both Ian and I no longer work at Red Hat, there is nobody left to check in patches or even process copyright assignments.

Many attempts were made to resolve this issue and continue to host the project on sources.redhat.com. These attempts did not bear any fruit, rehosting the project was the only viable solution.

cheers
Mo DeJong

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Re: Source-Navigator moves to SourceForge!
  2002-04-30 14:19 Mo DeJong
@ 2002-04-30 17:46 ` Paul Selormey
  2002-04-30 21:58   ` Mo DeJong
  2002-05-01  0:14   ` Khamis Abuelkomboz
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Paul Selormey @ 2002-04-30 17:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Mo DeJong, sourcenav

Hello Mo,
What I do not understand here is that, you or the other former
members of the team do not favor GPL. Or is there more to it?

Now, how does the move to SourceForge helps the license issue?

Best regards,
Paul.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mo DeJong" <supermo@bayarea.net>
To: "sourcenav" <sourcenav@sources.redhat.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 10:23 PM
Subject: Source-Navigator moves to SourceForge!


> Hello, everyone.
> 
> Recently, there has been a lot of discussion about the
> status of Source-Navigator, and its future direction.
> It has been more than a year since the last release,
> and none of the members of the 5.0 engineering team
> are currently employed by Red Hat. These problems 
> were surmountable, Source-Navigator could have been
> hosted on sources.redhat.com, if not for the copyright
> assignment problem. Current Red Hat policy dictates
> that contributors to Source-Navigator must assign any
> copyrights to Red Hat in addition to agreeing to license
> them under the terms of the GPL. This has effectively
> shutdown any new development of Source-Navigator since
> none of the original development team members are willing
> to agree to these terms. As a result, the team has decided
> to move the project to SourceForge.
> 
> So, without further ado.
> 
> The new project homepage can be found at:
> 
> http://sourcenav.sourceforge.net/
> 
> The SourceForge page for developers is here:
> 
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/sourcenav
> 
> There are also a couple of new mailing lists.
> 
> http://sourcenav.sourceforge.net/mail.html
> 
> 
> A significant amount of work has gone into upgrading the
> Tcl/Tk version used in Source-Navigator, but this work was
> never released. We are happy to announce that a new 5.1
> version of Source-Navigator will be ready soon. Developers
> can even get a sneak peek via CVS, just follow the instructions
> on the download page.
> 
> http://sourcenav.sourceforge.net/download.html
> 
> The current CVS version of Source-Navigator is very close
> to what will become 5.1. While the code is not yet ready
> for release, it should be ready for some early testing.
> The code should build without problems under a variety
> of Unix systems. Building with VC++ under Windows works,
> but a minor patch is needed (sourcenav-devl archive for info).
> Also note that GNU grep will have to be accessible on you
> PATH as it is no longer bundled with Source-Navigator.
> 
> One issue that remains with the migration to SourceForge
> is the bug database currently hosted on source.redhat.com.
> We plan on migrating  the data to SourceForge after the 5.1
> release. Note that the Tcl/Tk  upgrade fixes a large number
> of user interface problems, so those bug reports will not
> have to be moved over.
> 
> The future of Source-Navigator looks brighter than it has for
> some time. However, without corporate sponsorship, it is
> imperative that we develop an infrastructure to support
> ongoing maintenance and new development. To that end, we
> encourage people and organizations to invest in Source-Navigator
> and contribute to its development. Contracting with the maintainers
> to fix bugs or implement new features can be the most effective
> way to move Source-Navigator forward.
> 
> cheers
> Mo DeJong
> 

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* Source-Navigator moves to SourceForge!
@ 2002-04-30 14:19 Mo DeJong
  2002-04-30 17:46 ` Paul Selormey
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Mo DeJong @ 2002-04-30 14:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: sourcenav

Hello, everyone.

Recently, there has been a lot of discussion about the
status of Source-Navigator, and its future direction.
It has been more than a year since the last release,
and none of the members of the 5.0 engineering team
are currently employed by Red Hat. These problems 
were surmountable, Source-Navigator could have been
hosted on sources.redhat.com, if not for the copyright
assignment problem. Current Red Hat policy dictates
that contributors to Source-Navigator must assign any
copyrights to Red Hat in addition to agreeing to license
them under the terms of the GPL. This has effectively
shutdown any new development of Source-Navigator since
none of the original development team members are willing
to agree to these terms. As a result, the team has decided
to move the project to SourceForge.

So, without further ado.

The new project homepage can be found at:

http://sourcenav.sourceforge.net/

The SourceForge page for developers is here:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/sourcenav

There are also a couple of new mailing lists.

http://sourcenav.sourceforge.net/mail.html


A significant amount of work has gone into upgrading the
Tcl/Tk version used in Source-Navigator, but this work was
never released. We are happy to announce that a new 5.1
version of Source-Navigator will be ready soon. Developers
can even get a sneak peek via CVS, just follow the instructions
on the download page.

http://sourcenav.sourceforge.net/download.html

The current CVS version of Source-Navigator is very close
to what will become 5.1. While the code is not yet ready
for release, it should be ready for some early testing.
The code should build without problems under a variety
of Unix systems. Building with VC++ under Windows works,
but a minor patch is needed (sourcenav-devl archive for info).
Also note that GNU grep will have to be accessible on you
PATH as it is no longer bundled with Source-Navigator.

One issue that remains with the migration to SourceForge
is the bug database currently hosted on source.redhat.com.
We plan on migrating  the data to SourceForge after the 5.1
release. Note that the Tcl/Tk  upgrade fixes a large number
of user interface problems, so those bug reports will not
have to be moved over.

The future of Source-Navigator looks brighter than it has for
some time. However, without corporate sponsorship, it is
imperative that we develop an infrastructure to support
ongoing maintenance and new development. To that end, we
encourage people and organizations to invest in Source-Navigator
and contribute to its development. Contracting with the maintainers
to fix bugs or implement new features can be the most effective
way to move Source-Navigator forward.

cheers
Mo DeJong

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2002-05-02  3:56 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 10+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2002-05-01 18:52 Source-Navigator moves to SourceForge! David Robinson (AU)
2002-05-01 20:56 ` Mo DeJong
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2002-05-01  9:00 Davies, Mike
2002-05-01 13:21 ` Mo DeJong
2002-05-01  9:00 Davies, Mike
2002-04-30 14:19 Mo DeJong
2002-04-30 17:46 ` Paul Selormey
2002-04-30 21:58   ` Mo DeJong
2002-05-01  0:14   ` Khamis Abuelkomboz
2002-05-01 16:37     ` Mo DeJong

This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).