From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23601 invoked by alias); 24 Dec 2008 06:11:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 23590 invoked by uid 22791); 24 Dec 2008 06:11:06 -0000 X-SWARE-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_40,KAM_MX,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_40,KAM_MX,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS X-Spam-Check-By: sourceware.org Received: from mx1.redhat.com (HELO mx1.redhat.com) (66.187.233.31) by sourceware.org (qpsmtpd/0.43rc1) with ESMTP; Wed, 24 Dec 2008 06:10:06 +0000 Received: from int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (int-mx1.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.254]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id mBO6A3u0009234 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 2008 01:10:03 -0500 Received: from ns3.rdu.redhat.com (ns3.rdu.redhat.com [10.11.255.199]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id mBO6A2Em001502 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 2008 01:10:02 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain (vpn-10-11.bos.redhat.com [10.16.10.11]) by ns3.rdu.redhat.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id mBO6A0HH024882; Wed, 24 Dec 2008 01:10:01 -0500 Message-ID: <4951D1F0.7000307@redhat.com> Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 18:14:00 -0000 From: Masami Hiramatsu User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.18 (X11/20081119) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Roland McGrath CC: "Frank Ch. Eigler" , Theodore Tso , systemtap@sources.redhat.com Subject: Re: Discussion at Linux Foundation Japan Symposium References: <20081221003831.GG24081@redhat.com> <20081222181921.GH23723@mit.edu> <20081222203747.GA4195@redhat.com> <20081223211306.67D29FC3B7@magilla.sf.frob.com> <49516247.50704@redhat.com> <20081223222043.C6AF3FC3B7@magilla.sf.frob.com> <495173A8.7060405@redhat.com> <20081224033922.A7942FC3B7@magilla.sf.frob.com> In-Reply-To: <20081224033922.A7942FC3B7@magilla.sf.frob.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.58 on 172.16.52.254 X-IsSubscribed: yes Mailing-List: contact systemtap-help@sourceware.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Post: List-Help: , Sender: systemtap-owner@sourceware.org X-SW-Source: 2008-q4/txt/msg00643.txt.bz2 Hi Roland, Roland McGrath wrote: >> By the way, if the development will take more than two years, it might be >> belated, at last. > > I don't think I understood this sentence. I certainly would be much > happier if we'd embarked on this work two years ago, but we didn't, > and we have yet to really begin. The idea that it could take > anything like two years of actual development on this to produce > results seems just ludicrous to me, if that's what you meant. > Unless the effort goes horribly awry, I'll know a great deal more > concrete about it in a month, and the hope going in is to have quite > a lot of it done in two months. Would you mean you can release a usable prototype in two months if no trouble? Great! If so, I think it's enough short for us and kernel developers to use the tool. >> Unfortunately, we are in a severe situation. I don't mean >> that you give up the effort. Instead of that, I recommend you to run the >> project with target users (for example, kernel developers and systemtap >> developers), do rapid prototyping and embrace their feedbacks. It could >> take more time, but you can continue to attract users and give us hope! > > I don't know what it means to "run the project with target users". Sorry about confusing you. I just mean that we'd better notify users who are suffered from huge debuginfo that there is a plan to make a tool which can compress the debuginfo (and they can use it soon). Unless that, we will waste time on finding another way to solve this issue :(. > The actual tool development is something for DWARF and toolchain > experts to do, and I don't expect kernel developers to devote their > time to that just because they would benefit from the deployment of > such tools (as will many other kinds of developers--this is not > solely for the benefit of systemtap). Indeed, and at least there are some people who will receive benefit from that tool. > Of course the project is open > to everyone who wants to contribute, and of course development of > new tools will be driven by the concerns of their potential users. Sure, and that's a good news for "Frustrated" systemtap users. Thank you for your work! -- Masami Hiramatsu Software Engineer Hitachi Computer Products (America) Inc. Software Solutions Division e-mail: mhiramat@redhat.com