* Re: Curses and SDL apps for Windows and MacOS
2004-05-22 2:27 ` Elijah Meeks
@ 2004-05-22 2:43 ` Eric McDonald
2004-05-22 10:16 ` Hans Ronne
2004-05-23 20:23 ` Curses and SDL apps for Windows and MacOS Stan Shebs
2 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Eric McDonald @ 2004-05-22 2:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Elijah Meeks; +Cc: Hans Ronne, xconq7
On Fri, 2004-05-21 at 20:27, Elijah Meeks wrote:
> Would it be capable of allowing designers to customize
> the graphics of the interface (The borders,
> backgrounds, etc.) so that the different games will
> have different feels?
I have had that idea before as well. I don't think we are in a position
to do something like that right now though. There is also the issue that
if one uses a graphic as "window frame" (border) as part of a game
theme, then do we need different versions of the graphic for different
fixed window sizes (640x480, 1024x768, etc...), or do we make the
windows fully resizable but have the graphic be a tiling or pattern of
some sort?
One of the things that I may look into sooner would the possibility to
customize targeting, manipulation, and survey cursors in the Tcl/Tk
interface. I will probably consider this when I fix the issue with the
battle cursor appearing over an enemy unit while in survey mode.
> Really cool, so you'll have a stable, fully functional
> version by next Wednesday?
:-)
> On a serious note, is it possible to load up other .g
> files besides the basic game?
It parses the command line args the way the other interfaces do, IIRC.
So you should just be able to specify "-g specula" or whatever.
Eric
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Curses and SDL apps for Windows and MacOS
2004-05-22 2:27 ` Elijah Meeks
2004-05-22 2:43 ` Eric McDonald
@ 2004-05-22 10:16 ` Hans Ronne
2004-05-22 14:05 ` Hans Ronne
2004-05-22 17:14 ` Elijah Meeks
2004-05-23 20:23 ` Curses and SDL apps for Windows and MacOS Stan Shebs
2 siblings, 2 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Hans Ronne @ 2004-05-22 10:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Elijah Meeks; +Cc: xconq7
>This is my first experience with the SDL interface.
>It seems more smooth than the TCL/TK, is this because
>it only opens the default game or is it just better?
>It looks great. Yes, I know it's barely there, but it
>looks more like a game interface than TCL/TK, which
>I've hated ever since I played Xconq on a Mac...
>Would it be capable of allowing designers to customize
>the graphics of the interface (The borders,
>backgrounds, etc.) so that the different games will
>have different feels?
The SDL interface is much faster than the TCL interface, which is one
reason why it gives a smoother player experience. As for customizing the
interface, anything is possible. But there is a lot of work to do just to
get it into a playable shape.
>On a serious note, is it possible to load up other .g
>files besides the basic game?
Under Unix or MacOS you can load any game by using the command line, e.g.
"-g advances", when you launch XconqSDL. This is true also for the Curses
application. I haven't had time to check if the command line code works
under Windows, but it should not be too hard to fix if it doesn't.
Hans
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Curses and SDL apps for Windows and MacOS
2004-05-22 10:16 ` Hans Ronne
@ 2004-05-22 14:05 ` Hans Ronne
2004-05-22 17:14 ` Elijah Meeks
1 sibling, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Hans Ronne @ 2004-05-22 14:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Elijah Meeks; +Cc: xconq7
>>On a serious note, is it possible to load up other .g
>>files besides the basic game?
>
>Under Unix or MacOS you can load any game by using the command line, e.g.
>"-g advances", when you launch XconqSDL. This is true also for the Curses
>application. I haven't had time to check if the command line code works
>under Windows, but it should not be too hard to fix if it doesn't.
I have now tested the Windows command line, and it works fine. Thus:
xconqsdl -g spec
will launch XconqSDL with the Specula game, and:
cconq -g advances
will launch Cconq with the Advances game.
Hans
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Curses and SDL apps for Windows and MacOS
2004-05-22 10:16 ` Hans Ronne
2004-05-22 14:05 ` Hans Ronne
@ 2004-05-22 17:14 ` Elijah Meeks
[not found] ` <1085247112.1485.405.camel@localhost.localdomain>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Elijah Meeks @ 2004-05-22 17:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Hans Ronne; +Cc: xconq7
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> The SDL interface is much faster than the TCL
> interface, which is one
> reason why it gives a smoother player experience.
Boy, that's the truth. I conquered Japan last night,
and it was pretty fun, even though the interface is in
such a primitive state. I'm amazed to see how quickly
turns are carried out in SDL, and it seems like
there's all the functionality behind the scenes, is
that the case? After playing around with Korea 2006,
I opened Specula (The -g does work), which I assumed
required a lot of hardware because it had 800 sides
and 4.2 million units, is playable and fun on a
laptop.
> As for customizing the
> interface, anything is possible. But there is a lot
> of work to do just to
> get it into a playable shape.
I know this is pretty low on the list. But for when
it is feasible, even if it was simple tiling or just
selecting a color scheme, I think it'd add
immeasureably to the game.
Can you load saved games from the command-line?
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Curses and SDL apps for Windows and MacOS
2004-05-22 2:27 ` Elijah Meeks
2004-05-22 2:43 ` Eric McDonald
2004-05-22 10:16 ` Hans Ronne
@ 2004-05-23 20:23 ` Stan Shebs
2004-05-23 20:37 ` Eric McDonald
2004-05-23 21:28 ` Hans Ronne
2 siblings, 2 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Stan Shebs @ 2004-05-23 20:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Elijah Meeks; +Cc: Hans Ronne, xconq7
Elijah Meeks wrote:
>Hans,
>
>This is my first experience with the SDL interface.
>It seems more smooth than the TCL/TK, is this because
>it only opens the default game or is it just better?
>
Partly because it does less, partly because SDL is
tuned and honed for scrolling.
>It looks great. Yes, I know it's barely there, but it
>looks more like a game interface than TCL/TK, which
>I've hated ever since I played Xconq on a Mac...
>Would it be capable of allowing designers to customize
>the graphics of the interface (The borders,
>backgrounds, etc.) so that the different games will
>have different feels?
>
The plus of SDL is that interfaces built with it will look and feel
a lot more like the usual commercial games, but the minus is that
you don't get *anything* for free; all must be constructed in C
code. Parts of a complete SDL interface will be painful because
you have to have your own widgets, your own artwork, etc, and
you want to make that per-game-module, that's even more work.
There are some widget kits for SDL now I think, they'd come in
handy. So I think it's a direction worth pursuing, but be
prepared to do a lot more grungy GUI hacking.
I actually have a few unchecked-in changes that ought to be in
there so nobody reinvents.
Stan
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Curses and SDL apps for Windows and MacOS
2004-05-23 20:23 ` Curses and SDL apps for Windows and MacOS Stan Shebs
@ 2004-05-23 20:37 ` Eric McDonald
2004-05-23 20:45 ` Stan Shebs
2004-05-23 21:28 ` Hans Ronne
1 sibling, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Eric McDonald @ 2004-05-23 20:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stan Shebs; +Cc: Elijah Meeks, Hans Ronne, xconq7
Stan Shebs wrote:
> The plus of SDL is that interfaces built with it will look and feel
> a lot more like the usual commercial games, but the minus is that
> you don't get *anything* for free; all must be constructed in C
> code.
Which is a heck of a lot better than mucking around with Tcl scripts, IMO.
> I actually have a few unchecked-in changes that ought to be in
> there so nobody reinvents.
It seems you're down to an annual CVS commit schedule. :-) I note that
your last checkin was June 17 of last year.
Regards,
Eric
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Curses and SDL apps for Windows and MacOS
2004-05-23 20:37 ` Eric McDonald
@ 2004-05-23 20:45 ` Stan Shebs
2004-05-23 21:02 ` Eric McDonald
0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Stan Shebs @ 2004-05-23 20:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eric McDonald; +Cc: Elijah Meeks, Hans Ronne, xconq7
Eric McDonald wrote:
> Stan Shebs wrote:
>
>
>> I actually have a few unchecked-in changes that ought to be in
>> there so nobody reinvents.
>
>
> It seems you're down to an annual CVS commit schedule. :-) I note that
> your last checkin was June 17 of last year.
What's bad is that the code was written two years ago. :-( I'm afraid
Wikipedia continues to suck up cycles, recent statistics say I'm the
48th-most-active editor there. But I'm holding off creating the article
on Xconq until 7.5 is released...
Stan
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Curses and SDL apps for Windows and MacOS
2004-05-23 20:45 ` Stan Shebs
@ 2004-05-23 21:02 ` Eric McDonald
0 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Eric McDonald @ 2004-05-23 21:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stan Shebs; +Cc: Elijah Meeks, Hans Ronne, xconq7
Stan Shebs wrote:
>>> I actually have a few unchecked-in changes that ought to be in
>>> there so nobody reinvents.
>> It seems you're down to an annual CVS commit schedule. :-) I note that
>> your last checkin was June 17 of last year.
> What's bad is that the code was written two years ago. :-( I'm afraid
> Wikipedia continues to suck up cycles, recent statistics say I'm the
> 48th-most-active editor there.
Sounds like an addiction. A couple of years ago, I was on the glibc and
gcc mailing lists and I saw you post fairly frequently, and so I have
been under the delusion that you were busy with Apple-related GNU stuff
this whole time. :-)
>But I'm holding off creating the article
> on Xconq until 7.5 is released...
We do have a Web page dedicated to pre-release packages (still needs a
tarball)....
http://sources.redhat.com/xconq/ftp.html
Eric
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Curses and SDL apps for Windows and MacOS
2004-05-23 20:23 ` Curses and SDL apps for Windows and MacOS Stan Shebs
2004-05-23 20:37 ` Eric McDonald
@ 2004-05-23 21:28 ` Hans Ronne
2004-05-23 22:42 ` Elijah Meeks
1 sibling, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Hans Ronne @ 2004-05-23 21:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stan Shebs; +Cc: xconq7
>I actually have a few unchecked-in changes that ought to be in
>there so nobody reinvents.
Great. I haven't done anything to the SDL interface since I made it build
under MacOS. But I don't think it would take that much to get it into a
playable shape. Or perhaps I should say more playable, since Elijah was
able to finish a game. I never tried that myself, yet.
Hans
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Curses and SDL apps for Windows and MacOS
2004-05-23 21:28 ` Hans Ronne
@ 2004-05-23 22:42 ` Elijah Meeks
2004-05-23 22:56 ` Hans Ronne
0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Elijah Meeks @ 2004-05-23 22:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Hans Ronne, Stan Shebs; +Cc: xconq7
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> Great. I haven't done anything to the SDL interface
> since I made it build
> under MacOS. But I don't think it would take that
> much to get it into a
> playable shape. Or perhaps I should say more
> playable, since Elijah was
> able to finish a game. I never tried that myself,
> yet.
I'm in love with SDL. I keep trying to find more
excuses to play games in SDL. (I take back everything
I said about updating the TCK/TK interface, I can wait
for SDL) How many commands are implemented? What's
missing functionality-wise?
The way it runs right now, sans animations, might be a
good option, at least for AI turns. Not a default, of
course, but I could see some times when it would be useful.
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Curses and SDL apps for Windows and MacOS
2004-05-23 22:42 ` Elijah Meeks
@ 2004-05-23 22:56 ` Hans Ronne
0 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Hans Ronne @ 2004-05-23 22:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Elijah Meeks; +Cc: xconq7
>I'm in love with SDL. I keep trying to find more
>excuses to play games in SDL. (I take back everything
>I said about updating the TCK/TK interface, I can wait
>for SDL) How many commands are implemented? What's
>missing functionality-wise?
Well, I would say startup dialogs, network play, a notices pane, animations
and the research dialog are the most important missing stuff. Other things
like a help system would be nice but is not crucial.
>The way it runs right now, sans animations, might be a
>good option, at least for AI turns. Not a default, of
>course, but I could see some times when it would be useful.
The absence of animations is actually one reason why the SDL interface is
so fast. I did some profiling two years ago, which showed that 90% of the
CPU time is spent on drawing animations:
http://sources.redhat.com/ml/xconq7/2002/msg00574.html
This was for the Mac interface, and a lot has happened since then, so the
precise figures may not apply today. However, I still think the anmimations
are responsible for most of the CPU time wasted.
Hans
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread