From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11089 invoked by alias); 19 Sep 2004 18:06:45 -0000 Mailing-List: contact xconq7-help@sources.redhat.com; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Subscribe: List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: , Sender: xconq7-owner@sources.redhat.com Received: (qmail 11079 invoked from network); 19 Sep 2004 18:06:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gencom001.gencom.us) (208.45.97.81) by sourceware.org with SMTP; 19 Sep 2004 18:06:43 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gencom001.gencom.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42D295F8A for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 11:24:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gencom001.gencom.us ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (gencom001.gencom.us [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27767-02 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 11:24:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from osts (home [67.171.201.213]) by gencom001.gencom.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08EE05F57 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2004 11:24:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: XconqGIS Reply Summary (Ironically Long) From: "D. Cooper Stevenson" Reply-To: cstevens@gencom.us To: Xconq Mailing List Content-Type: text/plain Organization: General Computer Message-Id: <1095617482.7956.126.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 19:46:00 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gencom001 X-SW-Source: 2004/txt/msg01182.txt.bz2 Dear Eric, Lincoln, Matthew, & Xconq mailing listers; For the impatient, go here: http://wiki.xconqgis.org/index.php?GeologicalInformationSystemInformationGuide I'm condensing each of your feedback in the same email so that we're all on the same page. I'll indicate who's talking where, kind of like a script document. > Lincoln Peters: Welcome to the list. This sounds like an exciting project, and I think we would open up countless possibilities for new games. Thanks! > Matthew Skala: I've been working on making such a map for Antarctica...a preliminary version is at http://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/temporary/map.g I posted your terrain map to the Wiki here: wiki.xconqgis.org. This is like fresh muffins on a Sunday morning. Basically, Cooper: Can we do GIS stuff? Matthew: Yeah, I did it. Here you go... > Matthew Skala: Most of the data I got came as ASCII lists of points with decimal lat/long coordinates. I wrote some Perl scripts to translate the ASCII lat/lon coordinates into hex-grid coordinates, take a vote of surface types within each hex grid, and then assign the cell the majority terrain type of points within the cell. There were a few other subtleties which, again, I don't remember off the top of my head but have written down to go into the document that will eventually accompany the game module. Would you _please_ _please_ post and document this? I'm asking you-no strike that-I'm begging you to! :) This is _exactly_ spot on. I'll tell you what. I'll pull down the sattellite images from the USGS and parse the graphics if I possibly can. If I get stuck I'll let you know. So what you get is a spectacular looking satellite view of Antarctica utilizing your coordinate system interface with Xconq and Xconq's game play. By documenting what I do, I hope that we can "can" the solution (within the limits Matthew hinted at) for the creation of other theaters by pulling together the information we need to "feed to" Xconq. >Lincoln Peters: I suspect that Xconq's existing terrain libraries might need to be modified (or a new, separate terrain library be written from scratch) to accept the data you describe. Agreed. I am divided on this. On one hand, writing a GIS library to interface with the Xconq kernel will be no small task. Also, Matthew seems to have written a coordinate system that may just do the trick. On the other, I beckon one of the fundamental laws of Unix http://www.faqs.org/docs/artu/: "Design and build software, even operating systems, to be tried early, ideally within weeks. Don't hesitate to throw away the clumsy parts and rebuild them." This does not mean to imply that I think the library is clumsy. I frankly think otherwise for it's purposes. I don't know if it would be better for the libraries to be modified of if writing them from scratch is necessary. I pray for the former. >Lincoln Peters: I have a few questions about the GIS data: 1. Does it track vegetation separately from terrain? It sure does. Get a load of this: http://wiki.xconqgis.org/index.php?GeologicalInformationSystemInformationGuide I know too that GIS permits ASCII dumps of individual layers. I'm not clear on all aspects; I'm a GIS newbie. >Lincoln Peters: 2. Does it provide meteorological statistics, such as average rainfall, wind patterns, etc.? I can see that a game based based on something as detailed as GIS data might want to include such statistics... The tutorial does mention rainfall statistics. I believe this is the case. I tried to test this, but my tutorial data did not include the rainfall rastering layer that they mentioned in the tutorial. >Lincoln Peters: 3. Does it provide any detailed information about area, such as soil composition or specific kinds of vegetation? Yes. This includes soils.Kfactor, soils.Tfactor, (whatever these mean) soils.ph, and soils.range. Also included is a separate layer for vegetation. >Lincoln Peters: There are a few technical difficulties involved with such a project that I can see already. One thing that comes to mind is its representation of rivers. You got me here. I'm an Xconq map newbie. I will be documenting things as I learn... Cooper Stevenson: I am working to build an aggressive new image set for XCONQ. Eric McDonald: Excellent. Thank you! Eric has more terrain map insight specific to Xconq. I have to look at this more before I can give intellegent dialog. I will do this soon; I hope that I have provided a good start. > Matthew Skala: . If you or others want to talk about making Xconq maps from GIS data in a serious way, I'd be interested in participating. Thank you. > Matthew Skala: It's also possible that we might even put together a paper about it that we could publish at a conference or something, since doing it right will actually involve doing some new research on GIS that the GIS research community would probably find interesting. I wholeheartedly agree. Assuming that I am not too busy actually _writing_ the thing, I absolutely would be happy to pull together the documentation from the various sources, pull them together, and post. Also, before you read the following, note that I am a _die_hard_ optimist. I think the following could be done with a lot of work. I suspect that some of you have thought too along these lines: What would happen if the units you selected were actual human beings connected to the main server via the Internet? To the individuals, the game looks like a 3D game similar to Castle Wolfenstein: Enemy territory. So when you select troops at the batallion view and give them waypoints to follow into battle, that looks to them like a green arrow on the horizon for them to go. The best part is that there are human units on the other team trying to do the same thing to you. Now, combine that with a 3D battalion view, generated in real time. When the battalion commander selects tanks, he's selecting _real_ players. Also, every game client reports the user's position back to the main server their position as GIS data. -Coop -- -------------------------------------------------------------- | Cooper Stevenson | Em: cooper@gencom.us | | GenCom | Ph: 541.924.9434 | | "Working For IT" | Www: http://www.gencom.us | --------------------------------------------------------------