From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23617 invoked by alias); 20 Nov 2003 10:59:34 -0000 Mailing-List: contact xconq7-help@sources.redhat.com; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Subscribe: List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: , Sender: xconq7-owner@sources.redhat.com Received: (qmail 23608 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2003 10:59:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web40907.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.78.204) by sources.redhat.com with SMTP; 20 Nov 2003 10:59:34 -0000 Message-ID: <20031120105933.9342.qmail@web40907.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.163.5.253] by web40907.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:59:33 CET Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:01:00 -0000 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jakob=20Ilves?= Subject: Re: GDL, XML and others...Re: OT Python stuff (was RE: Python in Xconq) To: bboett@adlp.org, xconq7@sources.redhat.com In-Reply-To: <20031120081556.GR387@adlp.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SW-Source: 2003/txt/msg00840.txt.bz2 Hello again! --- Bruno Boettcher skrev: > On Wed, Nov 19, 2003 at 11:37:31PM -0500, Eric McDonald wrote: [ Some lines trimmed, to cut down my email SOMEWHAT in size ;-] > > > However, there is XML. What GDL do today can be carried out by XML tomorrow or rather, we > can > > > defined an XML language called XGDL, eXtensible Game Design Language. Given the immense > support > > > for XML in the industry, there's plenty of open source tools and libraries etc one can use > to to > > > create an XML parser for XGDL so it can read scenarious in XML. > > > > The section I cited above: > > http://sources.redhat.com/xconq/manual/hacking_9.html#SEC9 > > also demonstrates how GDL is less cumbersome to deal with. > yep, what GDL uses most are tables, and that's a structure that is > really hard to manage easily under XML... i gave it a shot some time a > go to make a grammar for GDL, but the result was very cumebrsome.... and > unless we make a proper editor for it, not very human readable, thus > worse than actual GDL.... Oh, what a bummer. But wait, XML very much resembles.... let's see... HTML!! Actually, it's VERY similar! And, so would XGDL be too. Tons of non programmers out there on netland do write HTML. Heck, KIDS do write HTML these days. Tons of people out there would apply their HTML (or preferrably, XHTML, I know ;-) skills to the XGDL files to find out how they work. Trouble with managing tables in XML languages? Yes, maybe there are but again, many HTML editors accept the way tables are managed in HTML, so they wouldn't groan too much in XGDL. (Ok, they would perhaps groan, a little, when dealing with the attack tables for all units vs all units in the standard game). So, I think that XGDL could attract quite a few people. Remember, XML is _WIDELY_ adopted in the industry. Today, GDL resembles... LISP. Fun for me, who have studied computers science and thus knowing that the language were invented in the 1950s. Of course, LISP and dialects have survived all these years for a reason. Compared to how easy it is to implement, it's amazingly powerful. So I think GDL in itself might frighten some developers who would approach it if it were XGDL instead. But yes, maybe XGDL is overall less attractive than GDL. (But I have my sincere religous beliefs). Of course, regardless of language you define the Xconq games in, the document probably always will be frightening ;-). It's a fairly complex task in any case... hm, what about... ...game design GUIs anyone? > > > For tiny snippets of procedural code, one can use ECMAscript > > >(aka Javascript). Sure, not the most > > > fantastic language. > uh... why that? Well, the OO implementation is sure OO, but I find it amazingly lightweight. Like as if Monthy Python (no pun vs Python language intended) would have designed it. But as I said, that's no problem, only charming... > > > Oh, anyone for using SVG to define the graphics... I swear, SVG is the coolest thing since > sliced > yep, its only unfortunate that still most browsers can't interpret that > stuff, since i agree, this really cool! Actually, it will get there. The best two implementations are the XML projects SVG package named Batik (http://xml.apache.org/batik), and the Adobe SVG plugin (http://www.adobe.com/svg) for MS Internet Explorer and Netscape. Also, Mozilla has a project for SVG support in the browser, even if they don't consider the code production ready yet it's making nice progress. Intresting with the Batik package is that it supports that you use it for Java applications in order to draw the graphics in your GUI. Java Xconq anyone ;-)? Also, for those who want to check out SVG implemented in C there is Sodipodi, an open source vector graphics editor which is written in C and uses pure SVG as it's document format (both save and load). Ooh, I'm talking about SVG _AGAIN_... I _REALLY_ refuse to get back to earth, don't I ;-)? Have a good time all of you! Best regards /IllvilJa (... calling planet earth!) > -- > ciao bboett > ============================================================== > bboett@adlp.org > http://inforezo.u-strasbg.fr/~bboett > =============================================================== ===== (Jakob Ilves) {http://www.geocities.com/illvilja} Höstrusk och grå moln - köp en resa till solen på Yahoo! Resor på adressen http://se.docs.yahoo.com/travel/index.html