Curses and SDL apps for Windows and MacOS

Curses and SDL apps for Windows and MacOS

[Hans Ronne]

I have now uploaded Curses and SDL versions of Xconq for both Windows and
MacOS to the ftp site. See the download page for details:

http://sources.redhat.com/xconq/ftp.html

The Curses interface (or Cconq) is the oldest Xconq interface. You use a
simple 80 x 24 terminal window where units and terrain are represented by
different characters. You can, however, still play most of the games in the
library with Cconq.

The SDL interface is the newest Xconq interface which is still under
development and therefore incomplete. It has a more modern layout with a
single large map that takes up most of the screen.

In both cases, it is just the application (and for the Windows apps also a
dll) that is found on the ftp site. These files should be dropped into the
top directory of an existing Xconq installation, i.e. the directory where
the Xconq application lives. Both Cconq and XconqSDL can then use the same
support files as Xconq.

Hans

Re: Curses and SDL apps for Windows and MacOS

[Elijah Meeks]

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Hans,

This is my first experience with the SDL interface. 
It seems more smooth than the TCL/TK, is this because
it only opens the default game or is it just better? 
It looks great.  Yes, I know it's barely there, but it
looks more like a game interface than TCL/TK, which
I've hated ever since I played Xconq on a Mac... 
Would it be capable of allowing designers to customize
the graphics of the interface (The borders,
backgrounds, etc.) so that the different games will
have different feels?

Really cool, so you'll have a stable, fully functional
version by next Wednesday?

On a serious note, is it possible to load up other .g
files besides the basic game?



	
		
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Re: Curses and SDL apps for Windows and MacOS

[Eric McDonald]

On Fri, 2004-05-21 at 20:27, Elijah Meeks wrote:

> Would it be capable of allowing designers to customize
> the graphics of the interface (The borders,
> backgrounds, etc.) so that the different games will
> have different feels?

I have had that idea before as well. I don't think we are in a position
to do something like that right now though. There is also the issue that
if one uses a graphic as "window frame" (border) as part of a game
theme, then do we need different versions of the graphic for different
fixed window sizes (640x480, 1024x768, etc...), or do we make the
windows fully resizable but have the graphic be a tiling or pattern of
some sort?

One of the things that I may look into sooner would the possibility to
customize targeting, manipulation, and survey cursors in the Tcl/Tk
interface. I will probably consider this when I fix the issue with the
battle cursor appearing over an enemy unit while in survey mode.

> Really cool, so you'll have a stable, fully functional
> version by next Wednesday?

:-)

> On a serious note, is it possible to load up other .g
> files besides the basic game?

It parses the command line args the way the other interfaces do, IIRC.
So you should just be able to specify "-g specula" or whatever.

Eric

Re: Curses and SDL apps for Windows and MacOS

[Hans Ronne]

>This is my first experience with the SDL interface.
>It seems more smooth than the TCL/TK, is this because
>it only opens the default game or is it just better?
>It looks great.  Yes, I know it's barely there, but it
>looks more like a game interface than TCL/TK, which
>I've hated ever since I played Xconq on a Mac...
>Would it be capable of allowing designers to customize
>the graphics of the interface (The borders,
>backgrounds, etc.) so that the different games will
>have different feels?

The SDL interface is much faster than the TCL interface, which is one
reason why it gives a smoother player experience.  As for customizing the
interface, anything is possible. But there is a lot of work to do just to
get it into a playable shape.

>On a serious note, is it possible to load up other .g
>files besides the basic game?

Under Unix or MacOS you can load any game by using the command line, e.g.
"-g advances", when you launch XconqSDL. This is true also for the Curses
application. I haven't had time to check if the command line code works
under Windows, but it should not be too hard to fix if it doesn't.

Hans

Re: Curses and SDL apps for Windows and MacOS

[Hans Ronne]

>>On a serious note, is it possible to load up other .g
>>files besides the basic game?
>
>Under Unix or MacOS you can load any game by using the command line, e.g.
>"-g advances", when you launch XconqSDL. This is true also for the Curses
>application. I haven't had time to check if the command line code works
>under Windows, but it should not be too hard to fix if it doesn't.

I have now tested the Windows command line, and it works fine. Thus:

xconqsdl -g spec

will launch XconqSDL with the Specula game, and:

cconq -g advances

will launch Cconq with the Advances game.

Hans

Re: Curses and SDL apps for Windows and MacOS

[Elijah Meeks]

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> The SDL interface is much faster than the TCL
> interface, which is one
> reason why it gives a smoother player experience. 


Boy, that's the truth.  I conquered Japan last night,
and it was pretty fun, even though the interface is in
such a primitive state.  I'm amazed to see how quickly
turns are carried out in SDL, and it seems like
there's all the functionality behind the scenes, is
that the case?  After playing around with Korea 2006,
I opened Specula (The -g does work), which I assumed
required a lot of hardware because it had 800 sides
and 4.2 million units, is playable and fun on a
laptop.  

> As for customizing the
> interface, anything is possible. But there is a lot
> of work to do just to
> get it into a playable shape.

I know this is pretty low on the list.  But for when
it is feasible, even if it was simple tiling or just
selecting a color scheme, I think it'd add
immeasureably to the game.


Can you load saved games from the command-line?



	
		
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Re: Curses and SDL apps for Windows and MacOS

[Eric McDonald]

Oops, accidentally tried to Bcc the list instead of Cc it.
sources.redhat.com mailer daemon didn't like that.

On Sat, 2004-05-22 at 11:31, Eric McDonald wrote:
> On Sat, 2004-05-22 at 11:14, Elijah Meeks wrote:
> 
> > I know this is pretty low on the list.  But for when
> > it is feasible, even if it was simple tiling or just
> > selecting a color scheme, I think it'd add
> > immeasureably to the game.
> 
> Well, at some point I hope to add support for Windows color schemes in
> the Windows version of the Tcl/Tk app. I think it would blend into its
> environment a little bit better, if it picked up the color scheme. But
> this is probably going to require some work, even though I know other
> Tcl/Tk apps have done it.
> 
> > Can you load saved games from the command-line?
> 
> Sure. You can use the "-f" flag instead of the "-g" flag. You might have
> to give the path to the saved game depending on where it is and where
> Xconq is looking by default.
> 
> Eric

Wrecking Revisited

[Elijah Meeks]

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In Specula I wanted to have it so that undead couldn't
build units, but instead gained more Zombie units when
they wiped out regular units.  I thought I'd found a
novel solution:

Set the wrecked-type of normal units to "Zombie"

Set the possible-sides of Zombies to "Undead" only

I figured that this would wipe out the created Zombie
units for any player but the Undead, so that when the
Undead wiped out a bunch of units, poof, they had a
bunch of zombies, while when anybody else wiped out a
bunch of units, they'd just disappear.

Anyone who is familiar with the way wrecked-type works
probably isn't in suspense.  Instead of only allowing
the creation of Zombies for the set side, it gives the
warning:

Leaving unit on disallowed side
This is not fatal, but may cause more serious problems
later on.  Do you want to continue playing this game?
(if 'no', you will get a chance to save it)

I think designers would be better served if the code
simply vanished any disallowed unit without reporting
an error.  I can't see much reason for it to work like
it does, but maybe I'm missing something.

 


	
		
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Re: Wrecking Revisited

[Hans Ronne]

>I think designers would be better served if the code
>simply vanished any disallowed unit without reporting
>an error.  I can't see much reason for it to work like
>it does, but maybe I'm missing something.

My recollection is that this is how the wrecking code should work, i.e.
wrecks that cannot belong to their assigned side should simply vanish. So
you may have found a bug. Or possibly an overzealous run warning.

Hans

Re: Wrecking Revisited

[Eric McDonald]

On Sat, 2004-05-22 at 13:11, Hans Ronne wrote:
> >I think designers would be better served if the code
> >simply vanished any disallowed unit without reporting
> >an error.  I can't see much reason for it to work like
> >it does, but maybe I'm missing something.
> 
> My recollection is that this is how the wrecking code should work, i.e.
> wrecks that cannot belong to their assigned side should simply vanish. So
> you may have found a bug. Or possibly an overzealous run warning.

This should now be fixed as part of the wrecking overhaul I just
committed to the repository. I actually had most of it done by noon of
last Sunday, but then got hung up on a bug when I was working on a
simple game to demonstrate the changes. Frustrating....

The behavior is now:
If the new unit type can remain on the same side as the old type, then
leave it there.
If not, then, if the new unit type can belong to the side that wrecked
it, then change its side to the wrecking side.
If not, then, if the new unit type can belong to the independent side,
then change its side to the independent side.
If not, then make it vanish.
In any case, the unit is no longer left on a disallowed side, and no
errors are reported.

Eric

Re: Curses and SDL apps for Windows and MacOS

[Stan Shebs]

Elijah Meeks wrote:

>Hans,
>
>This is my first experience with the SDL interface. 
>It seems more smooth than the TCL/TK, is this because
>it only opens the default game or is it just better? 
>
Partly because it does less, partly because SDL is
tuned and honed for scrolling.

>It looks great.  Yes, I know it's barely there, but it
>looks more like a game interface than TCL/TK, which
>I've hated ever since I played Xconq on a Mac... 
>Would it be capable of allowing designers to customize
>the graphics of the interface (The borders,
>backgrounds, etc.) so that the different games will
>have different feels?
>
The plus of SDL is that interfaces built with it will look and feel
a lot more like the usual commercial games, but the minus is that
you don't get *anything* for free; all must be constructed in C
code. Parts of a complete SDL interface will be painful because
you have to have your own widgets, your own artwork, etc, and
you want to make that per-game-module, that's even more work.
There are some widget kits for SDL now I think, they'd come in
handy. So I think it's a direction worth pursuing, but be
prepared to do a lot more grungy GUI hacking.

I actually have a few unchecked-in changes that ought to be in
there so nobody reinvents.

Stan

Re: Curses and SDL apps for Windows and MacOS

[Eric McDonald]

Stan Shebs wrote:

> The plus of SDL is that interfaces built with it will look and feel
> a lot more like the usual commercial games, but the minus is that
> you don't get *anything* for free; all must be constructed in C
> code.

Which is a heck of a lot better than mucking around with Tcl scripts, IMO.


> I actually have a few unchecked-in changes that ought to be in
> there so nobody reinvents.

It seems you're down to an annual CVS commit schedule. :-) I note that 
your last checkin was June 17 of last year.

    Regards,
      Eric

Re: Curses and SDL apps for Windows and MacOS

[Stan Shebs]

Eric McDonald wrote:

> Stan Shebs wrote:
>
>
>> I actually have a few unchecked-in changes that ought to be in
>> there so nobody reinvents.
>
>
> It seems you're down to an annual CVS commit schedule. :-) I note that 
> your last checkin was June 17 of last year.

What's bad is that the code was written two years ago. :-( I'm afraid
Wikipedia continues to suck up cycles, recent statistics say I'm the
48th-most-active editor there. But I'm holding off creating the article
on Xconq until 7.5 is released...

Stan

Re: Curses and SDL apps for Windows and MacOS

[Eric McDonald]

Stan Shebs wrote:

>>> I actually have a few unchecked-in changes that ought to be in
>>> there so nobody reinvents.
>> It seems you're down to an annual CVS commit schedule. :-) I note that 
>> your last checkin was June 17 of last year.
> What's bad is that the code was written two years ago. :-( I'm afraid
> Wikipedia continues to suck up cycles, recent statistics say I'm the
> 48th-most-active editor there. 

Sounds like an addiction. A couple of years ago, I was on the glibc and 
gcc mailing lists and I saw you post fairly frequently, and so I have 
been under the delusion that you were busy with Apple-related GNU stuff 
this whole time. :-)

>But I'm holding off creating the article
> on Xconq until 7.5 is released...

We do have a Web page dedicated to pre-release packages (still needs a 
tarball)....
http://sources.redhat.com/xconq/ftp.html

Eric

Re: Curses and SDL apps for Windows and MacOS

[Hans Ronne]

>I actually have a few unchecked-in changes that ought to be in
>there so nobody reinvents.

Great. I haven't done anything to the SDL interface since I made it build
under MacOS. But I don't think it would take that much to get it into a
playable shape. Or perhaps I should say more playable, since Elijah was
able to finish a game. I never tried that myself, yet.

Hans

Re: Curses and SDL apps for Windows and MacOS

[Elijah Meeks]

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> Great. I haven't done anything to the SDL interface
> since I made it build
> under MacOS. But I don't think it would take that
> much to get it into a
> playable shape. Or perhaps I should say more
> playable, since Elijah was
> able to finish a game. I never tried that myself,
> yet.

I'm in love with SDL.  I keep trying to find more
excuses to play games in SDL.  (I take back everything
I said about updating the TCK/TK interface, I can wait
for SDL)  How many commands are implemented?  What's
missing functionality-wise?

The way it runs right now, sans animations, might be a
good option, at least for AI turns.  Not a default, of
course, but I could see some times when it would be useful.


	
		
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Re: Curses and SDL apps for Windows and MacOS

[Hans Ronne]

>I'm in love with SDL.  I keep trying to find more
>excuses to play games in SDL.  (I take back everything
>I said about updating the TCK/TK interface, I can wait
>for SDL)  How many commands are implemented?  What's
>missing functionality-wise?

Well, I would say startup dialogs, network play, a notices pane, animations
and the research dialog are the most important missing stuff. Other things
like a help system would be nice but is not crucial.

>The way it runs right now, sans animations, might be a
>good option, at least for AI turns.  Not a default, of
>course, but I could see some times when it would be useful.

The absence of animations is actually one reason why the SDL interface is
so fast. I did some profiling two years ago, which showed that 90% of the
CPU time is spent on drawing animations:

http://sources.redhat.com/ml/xconq7/2002/msg00574.html

This was for the Mac interface, and a lot has happened since then, so the
precise figures may not apply today. However, I still think the anmimations
are responsible for most of the CPU time wasted.

Hans