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* Xconq Ranking at Sourceforge
@ 2004-12-03 17:32 Eric McDonald
  2004-12-04  0:41 ` [Xconq-general] " Elijah Meeks
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Eric McDonald @ 2004-12-03 17:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: xconq7; +Cc: xconq-general

Hello Xconquerors,

For those wondering how their favorite TBS game is faring at Sourceforge:
   http://sourceforge.net/top/mostactive.php?type=week&offset=50

We're hanging out with Bochs, and that's good company to keep.
We'll have to see what happens after we announce major bugfixes and 
performance improvements in the next file release. :-)

(I imagine the climb starts to get tough above #30 or so.)

   Regards,
     Eric

P.S. In case someone looks at the rankings after they have changed, we 
were listed at #77 out of 91736 registered projects.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: [Xconq-general] Xconq Ranking at Sourceforge
  2004-12-03 17:32 Xconq Ranking at Sourceforge Eric McDonald
@ 2004-12-04  0:41 ` Elijah Meeks
  2004-12-04  0:50   ` Eric McDonald
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Elijah Meeks @ 2004-12-04  0:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Eric McDonald, xconq7; +Cc: xconq-general

Hey Eric,

Though I'm extremely proud of this, I wonder if it's a
glitch.  Everyone else in the top hundred is receiving
a couple thousand (At least) hits a day and many of
them are also getting a couple thousand downloads a
day.  I'd like to see the system sf.net uses to
determine percentile.  Maybe it has something to do
with the foundry we're in or the size of the
downloads...  Still, I only expect XConq to grow in
popularity.



--- Eric McDonald <mcdonald@phy.cmich.edu> wrote:

> Hello Xconquerors,
> 
> For those wondering how their favorite TBS game is
> faring at Sourceforge:
>   
>
http://sourceforge.net/top/mostactive.php?type=week&offset=50
> 
> We're hanging out with Bochs, and that's good
> company to keep.
> We'll have to see what happens after we announce
> major bugfixes and 
> performance improvements in the next file release.
> :-)
> 
> (I imagine the climb starts to get tough above #30
> or so.)
> 
>    Regards,
>      Eric
> 
> P.S. In case someone looks at the rankings after
> they have changed, we 
> were listed at #77 out of 91736 registered projects.
> 
> 
>
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>
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> 



		
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: [Xconq-general] Xconq Ranking at Sourceforge
  2004-12-04  0:41 ` [Xconq-general] " Elijah Meeks
@ 2004-12-04  0:50   ` Eric McDonald
  2004-12-04  5:04     ` Elijah Meeks
  2004-12-04 13:03     ` Erik
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Eric McDonald @ 2004-12-04  0:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Elijah Meeks; +Cc: xconq7, xconq-general

Elijah Meeks wrote:

> Though I'm extremely proud of this, I wonder if it's a
> glitch. 

It could be. Sourceforge has said that they are experiencing some 
problems with the rankings system. However, take Bochs for example; 
although they outclass us in page views and downloads, their tracker 
activity is relatively low. Tracker activity is factored into the rankings.

>I'd like to see the system sf.net uses to
> determine percentile.

To quote Sourceforge docs:

"The current project rankings formula is as follows:

log (3 * # of forum posts for that week) + log (4 * # of tasks ftw) + 
log (3 * # bugs ftw) + log (10 * patches ftw) + log (5 * tracker items 
ftw) + log (# commits to CVS ftw) + log (5 * # file releases ftw) + log 
(.3 * # downloads ftw)"

As you can see, downloads are dropped to 3/10 of their value, but 
tracker items are multiplied by 5 and patches by 10. Since logs 
(presumably base-10) are being taken, an order of magnitude will only 
vary by 1. If Bochs' downloads are 100 times more than ours, their score 
only gains 2 over ours. By contrast, we had 3 patches in the past week, 
and 3*10 = 30, so our score gained 1.x for that. Plus, we had 3 new 
tasks, so our score gained 1.y for that. So, with those two terms alone 
we could hypothetically close the gap.

That said, and as I have mentioned to you in private email, I do not 
suspect that this is sustainable. And, I am more interested in 
developing a good game than in getting good rankings on SF. Things will 
continue to fluctuate, probably wildly. Next week, we could be back to 
hanging out around 400 or 500 again. Big deal. Development continues.

I only mentioned the ranking yesterday because I think it reflects well 
on our project; tracker activity indicates vitality (but not necessarily 
popularity).

Eric

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: [Xconq-general] Xconq Ranking at Sourceforge
  2004-12-04  0:50   ` Eric McDonald
@ 2004-12-04  5:04     ` Elijah Meeks
  2004-12-04 13:03     ` Erik
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Elijah Meeks @ 2004-12-04  5:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Eric McDonald; +Cc: xconq7, xconq-general

You hackers and your willingness to delve into how
functions work...

I agree with your focus on making a good game over
winning a beauty pageant.  Still, it's nice to be
popular, hopefully that will bring more than just
end-users.  I can only imagine how much attention
we'll get with 7.5 (Which I plan on promoting on every
website I can find...).  

Oh, and it's good to know my constant
feature-requesting does some good.

Elijah

--- Eric McDonald <mcdonald@phy.cmich.edu> wrote:

> Elijah Meeks wrote:
> 
> > Though I'm extremely proud of this, I wonder if
> it's a
> > glitch. 
> 
> It could be. Sourceforge has said that they are
> experiencing some 
> problems with the rankings system. However, take
> Bochs for example; 
> although they outclass us in page views and
> downloads, their tracker 
> activity is relatively low. Tracker activity is
> factored into the rankings.
> 
> >I'd like to see the system sf.net uses to
> > determine percentile.
> 
> To quote Sourceforge docs:
> 
> "The current project rankings formula is as follows:
> 
> log (3 * # of forum posts for that week) + log (4 *
> # of tasks ftw) + 
> log (3 * # bugs ftw) + log (10 * patches ftw) + log
> (5 * tracker items 
> ftw) + log (# commits to CVS ftw) + log (5 * # file
> releases ftw) + log 
> (.3 * # downloads ftw)"
> 
> As you can see, downloads are dropped to 3/10 of
> their value, but 
> tracker items are multiplied by 5 and patches by 10.
> Since logs 
> (presumably base-10) are being taken, an order of
> magnitude will only 
> vary by 1. If Bochs' downloads are 100 times more
> than ours, their score 
> only gains 2 over ours. By contrast, we had 3
> patches in the past week, 
> and 3*10 = 30, so our score gained 1.x for that.
> Plus, we had 3 new 
> tasks, so our score gained 1.y for that. So, with
> those two terms alone 
> we could hypothetically close the gap.
> 
> That said, and as I have mentioned to you in private
> email, I do not 
> suspect that this is sustainable. And, I am more
> interested in 
> developing a good game than in getting good rankings
> on SF. Things will 
> continue to fluctuate, probably wildly. Next week,
> we could be back to 
> hanging out around 400 or 500 again. Big deal.
> Development continues.
> 
> I only mentioned the ranking yesterday because I
> think it reflects well 
> on our project; tracker activity indicates vitality
> (but not necessarily 
> popularity).
> 
> Eric
> 



		
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: [Xconq-general] Xconq Ranking at Sourceforge
  2004-12-04  0:50   ` Eric McDonald
  2004-12-04  5:04     ` Elijah Meeks
@ 2004-12-04 13:03     ` Erik
  2004-12-04 17:08       ` mskala
  2004-12-04 22:38       ` Eric McDonald
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Erik @ 2004-12-04 13:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: xconq7

lördag 04 december 2004 01.40 skrev Eric McDonald:
> To quote Sourceforge docs:
>
> "The current project rankings formula is as follows:
>
> log (3 * # of forum posts for that week) + log (4 * # of tasks ftw) +
> log (3 * # bugs ftw) + log (10 * patches ftw) + log (5 * tracker items
> ftw) + log (# commits to CVS ftw) + log (5 * # file releases ftw) + log
> (.3 * # downloads ftw)"
>
> As you can see, downloads are dropped to 3/10 of their value, but
> tracker items are multiplied by 5 and patches by 10. Since logs
> (presumably base-10) are being taken, an order of magnitude will only
> vary by 1. If Bochs' downloads are 100 times more than ours, their score
> only gains 2 over ours. By contrast, we had 3 patches in the past week,
> and 3*10 = 30, so our score gained 1.x for that. Plus, we had 3 new
> tasks, so our score gained 1.y for that. So, with those two terms alone
> we could hypothetically close the gap.


When I saw that formula  it was obvious to me that it does not weight the 
data. Since I found that strange I searched for the documentation. And it 
says: "We are aware that the current formula does not actually weight the 
data aggregated for rankings (the formula was misdesigned and has not yet 
been replaced)."

[http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=14040&group_id=1]

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: [Xconq-general] Xconq Ranking at Sourceforge
  2004-12-04 13:03     ` Erik
@ 2004-12-04 17:08       ` mskala
  2004-12-04 22:38       ` Eric McDonald
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: mskala @ 2004-12-04 17:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Erik; +Cc: xconq7

On Sat, 4 Dec 2004, Erik wrote:
> > log (3 * # of forum posts for that week) + log (4 * # of tasks ftw) +
> > log (3 * # bugs ftw) + log (10 * patches ftw) + log (5 * tracker items
> > ftw) + log (# commits to CVS ftw) + log (5 * # file releases ftw) + log
> > (.3 * # downloads ftw)"

> When I saw that formula  it was obvious to me that it does not weight the
> data. Since I found that strange I searched for the documentation. And it
> says: "We are aware that the current formula does not actually weight the

I wondered about that, too.  Having the multiplications inside the logs
means that outside the logs they're the same thing as just adding a
constant.  However, if the formula were "fixed" in the obvious way, by
moving the multiplications outside the logs, then I think it would favour
us even more strongly.
-- 
Matthew Skala
mskala@ansuz.sooke.bc.ca                    Embrace and defend.
http://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: [Xconq-general] Xconq Ranking at Sourceforge
  2004-12-04 13:03     ` Erik
  2004-12-04 17:08       ` mskala
@ 2004-12-04 22:38       ` Eric McDonald
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Eric McDonald @ 2004-12-04 22:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Erik; +Cc: xconq7, xconq-general

Erik wrote:

> When I saw that formula  it was obvious to me that it does not weight the 
> data. Since I found that strange I searched for the documentation. And it 
> says: "We are aware that the current formula does not actually weight the 
> data aggregated for rankings (the formula was misdesigned and has not yet 
> been replaced)."
> 
> [http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=14040&group_id=1]

Well yes, I saw that too; it is the document from which I quoted in my 
previous message. I wasn't offering a critique on the relative merits or 
flaws of the existing formula. I was just explaining how it is that we 
ended up with the ranking we did. I think it would be understandable if 
another project was a bit annoyed because it had 100 times the downloads 
but was active in fewer of the areas that logs are taken of. And, as 
Matthew points out in the next message in this thread, the 
multiplicative factors inside the logs are the same as adding small 
constants outside the logs; definitely not a good "weighting" scheme.

Eric

P.S. The Sourceforge expression is actually a bit simplified, since 
log(0) must be avoided. Thus it is not a pure formula, but some logical 
selection must be occurring as well. The other thing to note is that 
projects that have between 1 and 3, inclusive, new downloads per week 
would seem to be actually penalized in the scoring, unless there is 
logic that says to apply the downloads calculation for only those 
projects with 4 or more downloads per week.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2004-12-04 17:08 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 7+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2004-12-03 17:32 Xconq Ranking at Sourceforge Eric McDonald
2004-12-04  0:41 ` [Xconq-general] " Elijah Meeks
2004-12-04  0:50   ` Eric McDonald
2004-12-04  5:04     ` Elijah Meeks
2004-12-04 13:03     ` Erik
2004-12-04 17:08       ` mskala
2004-12-04 22:38       ` Eric McDonald

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