From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13901 invoked by alias); 23 Nov 2003 11:13:00 -0000 Mailing-List: contact xconq7-help@sources.redhat.com; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Subscribe: List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: , Sender: xconq7-owner@sources.redhat.com Received: (qmail 13889 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2003 11:12:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outbound28-2.lax.untd.com) (64.136.28.160) by sources.redhat.com with SMTP; 23 Nov 2003 11:12:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 25278 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2003 11:12:57 -0000 Received: from 66-52-242-216.sttl.dial.netzero.com (HELO vangogh) (66.52.242.216) by smtpout02.lax.untd.com with SMTP; 23 Nov 2003 11:12:57 -0000 From: "Brandon J. Van Every" To: "xconq" Subject: RE: Why Eric doesn't like my personal style Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 14:22:00 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal In-Reply-To: <16320.9269.137384.122814@flacy.home.flacy> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-SW-Source: 2003/txt/msg00905.txt.bz2 Mark A. Flacy wrote: > > Brandon> He is somewhat correct, and I'm not going to change how I do > Brandon> business for him. > > No doubt that's the secret to your success. Do you want to define "success?" You're working on a hobby project with a small number of developers. What do you know about "success" in game development? You some kind of principal at a well-known and well-respected game company, just moonlighting here? > Please find something else to do or simply DO something and > shut the fuck up about it. Well, it is true that I am looking around for codebases where I don't actually have to convert people about what to do. That are in better shape from an OO and higher level functionality / make major changes standpoint. People like you make it easier not to worry about "generosity" as one of the factors. It's as though you think people should just gladly do things for Xconq, without regard for basics like: - whether anyone would actually use, desire, or test the Python code. - whether it would actually get checked into CVS in any timeframe of relevance to me. Without even these basics, why would anyone with my priorities develop anything for you? Nevermind all the flat C code. Sure it works, but in 2003 it's not an attractive development platform. You know this; the question is whether you have any energy to change it, or if you're satisfied that "it's working for you." If it works for you I don't begrudge you that fact. But it doesn't work for me, nor a lot of other OO developers out there. We simply couldn't do the things we want to do in Xconq without changes to the infrastructure. We are disinclined to write major, painful buckets of C code. FWIW the conversation with the Freeciv guys has been nicer, because I had already gone over the personality land mines here and I didn't feel the need to repeat them there. I never expected the Freeciv guys to change their ways, so I didn't set it as a goal to try. Rather, I thought I'd check to see if I might be pleasantly surprised, and I'd try to understand something about why C coders stick to their guns. Turns out someone did do some Python once upon a time, and it fell by the wayside. Guess if you build it, people don't come eh? Since you've seconded Eric's attitude, I'm outta here. Some of you will be glad; I'm glad, because at least it's a resolution. What I've learned from this experience, is team dynamics (or lack thereof) is as important a factor as anything else. Some kinds of people, with some kinds of priorities, I simply cannot work with no matter how many appeals to altruism or freeware do-goodery people might try to hide the problems in. What it gets down to, is you have your agenda, I have mine. "Thanks," at least, for helping me to clarify my agenda. I'm pretty clear on what it is now, this has been a good exercise for me, if not for you. And hey, you got VS 2003 files out of the deal, I've paid my bar tab. Next move is I'll either find a project that intersects with my agenda, or I'll start my own. Maybe I'll ping you guys about what happens at some point. Some of your lurkers I think would actually prefer to work on something ala Python. Cheers, www.indiegamedesign.com Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA "We live in a world of very bright people building crappy software with total shit for tools and process." - Ed Mckenzie