From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16315 invoked by alias); 8 Nov 2003 02:57:20 -0000 Mailing-List: contact xconq7-help@sources.redhat.com; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Subscribe: List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: , Sender: xconq7-owner@sources.redhat.com Received: (qmail 16308 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2003 02:57:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outbound28-2.lax.untd.com) (64.136.28.160) by sources.redhat.com with SMTP; 8 Nov 2003 02:57:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 15499 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2003 02:57:17 -0000 Received: from 66-52-242-53.sttl.dial.netzero.com (HELO vangogh) (66.52.242.53) by smtp03.lax.untd.com with SMTP; 8 Nov 2003 02:57:17 -0000 From: "Brandon J. Van Every" To: "xconq" Subject: Windows native UIs Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 03:06:00 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-SW-Source: 2003/txt/msg00605.txt.bz2 From: Eric McDonald [mailto:mcdonald@phy.cmich.edu] > On Sat, 8 Nov 2003, Hans Ronne wrote: > > > So my guess is that you would find it easier to work on the Windows > > interface, given your stated interests and preferences. A > Windows-native > > (non-Tcl) interface would be a very welcome contribution to Xconq. > > Yes. If we swing to SDL as our primary interface during the next > release cycle, one might want to consider native Win32 support > for the UI elements such as menus and windows. Or using a > cross-platform library of UI elements (such as wxWindows, though > it is C++ code).... My opinion here: SDL is not a native Windows interface. It is simply a non-TCL interface. SDL is C and that's crufty, but at least it has bindings for various other languages. For instance it has a C# binding... which probably doesn't work, as that project looks really shaky and starved for attention. The best SDL-based technology I'm aware of is Kyra, which is a C++ layer on top of SDL. http://www.grinninglizard.com/kyra/ Aside from giving a proper OO approach (at least I think so, haven't used it yet), they have excellent 2D alpha blended sprites in SW that SDL does not have. The demo of Kyra is a rather slick benchmark, they are serious about performance in SW. Typically, these non-Windows interfaces are portable, but at the expense of performance, added cruft, and lack of a feather in your cap. Nobody gets paid big bucks for knowing SDL. The proper way to write a Windows UI nowadays is with .NET and C#. Not Win32. If I write any Windows interfaces, very likely it will be in .NET and C#. I'd only do TCL or SDL if the value of what's already written outweighs the cruft. I would never, for instance, use wxWindows to write UIs from scratch. The question is whether UIs are important and elaborate parts of Xconq development. Enough to be worth the trouble of trying to stay uniform across platforms. My primary interest is writing new games and getting rid of interfaces that slow down gameplay, whether due to the game design, the UI design, or the performance. Ergo, I don't care about maintaining existing UIs. I do care about being able to rapidly create new ones, and/or minimizing the need for UI stuff in the first place. I like games to be as close to a clean, cinematic rectangle as possible. I do not like games that play like MS Word. Cheers, www.indiegamedesign.com Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA Taking risk where others will not.