From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22539 invoked by alias); 21 Jul 2004 00:47:07 -0000 Mailing-List: contact xconq7-help@sources.redhat.com; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Subscribe: List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: , Sender: xconq7-owner@sources.redhat.com Received: (qmail 22531 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2004 00:47:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO av13-1-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net) (81.228.10.104) by sourceware.org with SMTP; 21 Jul 2004 00:47:06 -0000 Received: by av13-1-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 9A5D437E63; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 02:47:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from smtp4-1-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (smtp4-1-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net [81.228.10.181]) by av13-1-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E0E237E43; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 02:47:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [212.181.162.155] (h155n1fls24o1048.bredband.comhem.se [212.181.162.155]) by smtp4-1-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDCBD37E43; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 02:47:04 +0200 (CEST) X-Sender: u22611592@m1.226.comhem.se Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 00:55:00 -0000 To: Eric McDonald From: Hans Ronne Subject: Re: Weird fuel behavior Cc: xconq7@sources.redhat.com, Stan Shebs X-SW-Source: 2004/txt/msg00790.txt.bz2 >Well, I think even panes should be kept to a minimum. Believe me, >I like the "clean rectangle" concept that SDL offers, but there >can (and should, IMO) be windows that can be popped up demand to >display various useful summaries and sets of details. The Tcl/Tk >interface is way too cluttered and some things, such as the unit >list, have minimal usefulness (construction and change-type >selections should be done through a popup dialog window, and not >through the unit list). > >The driving concept should be: which info is so useful that it >should always be displayed, and which info is only occasionally >useful (but useful nonetheless) so that it should be kept in an >on-demand display? I certainly agree with that. The first thing I do when I launch a game, whether we are talking about the Mac or tcltk interface, is to minimize or get rid of most of the panes (you can turn most them off completely in the Mac interface). The only thing I want on the screen is the map, a small floating world map, and a small floating window with the Notices. That being said, I do like to bring up stuff like the List or Help window now and then. But when I do, I focus exclusively on those windows and don't use the map. This is why I think you can actually do without multiple windows. So here is how I think the SDL interface should work eventually. You have one big map that covers most of the screen (like now). Anything that you need *together* with the map should be at the bottom, like it is now. This would include the world map and the Notices feedback. I don't think you need on-screen access to the unit info pane or construction buttons, which are there now. But this need may differ from game to game and should perhaps be configurable (as in the Mac interface today). Anything else should be brought up by switching not to another window, but to another screen. If you want to consult the Help node, you don't need the map at the same time, so let it go and bring up a help sceeen that contains nothing but help. Same for advanced unit closeups. If you want to micro-manage a unit you don't need to use the map at the same time. The difference between switching to another window and to another screen may seem like a technicality, but I do think it is important for the game experience. As Stan just pointed out, it's all about suspension of disbelief. As long as you don't leave the game and its full-screen window, you are immersed into the game and can forget about the rest of the world. Once you start to navigate between windows you are back at your computer desktop, and the spell is broken. What is very important if this strategy is to work is that it is easy and fast to switch between screens. A single keystroke should do the job. And the switch should happen instantly. Finally, I'm all for popup windows if they can be implemented. This is how the Mac interface works, where not only research but also unit build tasks are managed through popups, and I think it is easier to use than the tcltk interface. It is multiple full-size windows that I think should be avoided. Hans >> What you can do with SDL, I believe, is transparent overlays and such. Not >> the same thing as a floating window but a decent alternative. > >This might be acceptable for a pure SDL implementation, if someone >felt like taking the effort to make such "windows". My guess is >that true popup windows could be much more rapidly implemented >(with expected UI components) using something like GTK. > >Eric