Q: whald should I give my "customers" ?

Q: whald should I give my "customers" ?

[Mau Z]

Hi all,

So, I had built a tool chain.
Now, I have used it to create an image (root file system).
Let's suppose that everything went OK, and all is good.

Now, my "customers" are a group of application developers, which need
the tool chain.
They work on a different site, so I must somehow "deliver" the newly
created toolchain.

The do not need the toolchain o the target, just on the development
host  (their desktops).

What should I give them ?
   1) Simply, the "x-tools" directory (300 MB) ?
   2) Simply, the "x-tools/i686-zm-linux-gnu/bin" directory (21 MB) ?
   3) any other suggestion ?

Are there instruction/advices that I should give them ? do's and don'ts ?
Is there a good or bad way to "deliver" the newly created toolchain ?



Thanks
Mau

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Re: Q: whald should I give my "customers" ?

[Yann E. MORIN]

Mau, All,

On 2013-12-31 00:41 +0200, Mau Z spake thusly:
> So, I had built a tool chain.
> Now, I have used it to create an image (root file system).
> Let's suppose that everything went OK, and all is good.

Yes, let's suppose that! ;-)

> Now, my "customers" are a group of application developers, which need
> the tool chain.
> They work on a different site, so I must somehow "deliver" the newly
> created toolchain.
> 
> The do not need the toolchain o the target, just on the development
> host  (their desktops).
> 
> What should I give them ?
>    1) Simply, the "x-tools" directory (300 MB) ?
>    2) Simply, the "x-tools/i686-zm-linux-gnu/bin" directory (21 MB) ?
>    3) any other suggestion ?

3) any other suggestion:
    the "x-tools/i686-zm-linux-gnu: directory as a whole.

;-)

> Are there instruction/advices that I should give them ? do's and don'ts ?

Do's: ensure all your 'users' will have a decent distro so the toolchain
runs on their machines. Alternatively, use yourself a distro that is as
old as the older distro your users may use.

Do's: if your 'users' distro are very disparate, you may want to build a
statically-linked toolchain, see:
    Toolchain options  --->
        [ ] Build Static Toolchain

Do's: preferably install the toolchain in /opt/x-tools/${CT_TARGET}
(or any other generic location) rather than in your home. This is not
strictly required, since toolchains generated with ct-ng are
relocatable, but cleaner nonetheless.

Dont's: expect no problem! :-p

> Is there a good or bad way to "deliver" the newly created toolchain ?

The simplest is just to create a tarball of your x-tools/i686-zm-linux-gnu
directory, and distribute that. Tell your 'users' to extract it wherever
they want, and export PATH="...../i686-zm-linux-gnu/bin:${PATH}"

Note that, if your 'users' are not in the same legal entity as you are,
then you do have some obligations due to the licensing terms og the
different tools you are using (GPLv2+, GPLv3+, LGPLv2.1+, and maybe
others), since you are in fact distributing the toolchain. Be sure to
understand that! ;-)

Regards,
Yann E. MORIN.

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| +33 662 376 056 | Software  Designer | \ / CAMPAIGN     |  ___               |
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Re: Q: whald should I give my "customers" ?

[Mau Z]

Thanks.

On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 12:58 AM, Yann E. MORIN <yann.morin.1998@free.fr> wrote:
> Mau, All,
>
> On 2013-12-31 00:41 +0200, Mau Z spake thusly:
>> So, I had built a tool chain.
>> Now, I have used it to create an image (root file system).
>> Let's suppose that everything went OK, and all is good.
>
> Yes, let's suppose that! ;-)
>
>> Now, my "customers" are a group of application developers, which need
>> the tool chain.
>> They work on a different site, so I must somehow "deliver" the newly
>> created toolchain.
>>
>> The do not need the toolchain o the target, just on the development
>> host  (their desktops).
>>
>> What should I give them ?
>>    1) Simply, the "x-tools" directory (300 MB) ?
>>    2) Simply, the "x-tools/i686-zm-linux-gnu/bin" directory (21 MB) ?
>>    3) any other suggestion ?
>
> 3) any other suggestion:
>     the "x-tools/i686-zm-linux-gnu: directory as a whole.
>
> ;-)
>
>> Are there instruction/advices that I should give them ? do's and don'ts ?
>
> Do's: ensure all your 'users' will have a decent distro so the toolchain
> runs on their machines. Alternatively, use yourself a distro that is as
> old as the older distro your users may use.
>
> Do's: if your 'users' distro are very disparate, you may want to build a
> statically-linked toolchain, see:
>     Toolchain options  --->
>         [ ] Build Static Toolchain
>
> Do's: preferably install the toolchain in /opt/x-tools/${CT_TARGET}
> (or any other generic location) rather than in your home. This is not
> strictly required, since toolchains generated with ct-ng are
> relocatable, but cleaner nonetheless.
>
> Dont's: expect no problem! :-p
>
>> Is there a good or bad way to "deliver" the newly created toolchain ?
>
> The simplest is just to create a tarball of your x-tools/i686-zm-linux-gnu
> directory, and distribute that. Tell your 'users' to extract it wherever
> they want, and export PATH="...../i686-zm-linux-gnu/bin:${PATH}"
>
> Note that, if your 'users' are not in the same legal entity as you are,
> then you do have some obligations due to the licensing terms og the
> different tools you are using (GPLv2+, GPLv3+, LGPLv2.1+, and maybe
> others), since you are in fact distributing the toolchain. Be sure to
> understand that! ;-)
>
> Regards,
> Yann E. MORIN.
>
> --
> .-----------------.--------------------.------------------.--------------------.
> |  Yann E. MORIN  | Real-Time Embedded | /"\ ASCII RIBBON | Erics' conspiracy: |
> | +33 662 376 056 | Software  Designer | \ / CAMPAIGN     |  ___               |
> | +33 223 225 172 `------------.-------:  X  AGAINST      |  \e/  There is no  |
> | http://ymorin.is-a-geek.org/ | _/*\_ | / \ HTML MAIL    |   v   conspiracy.  |
> '------------------------------^-------^------------------^--------------------'

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RE: Q: whald should I give my "customers" ?

[ANDY KENNEDY]

<snip> 
> > Is there a good or bad way to "deliver" the newly created toolchain ?
> 
> The simplest is just to create a tarball of your x-tools/i686-zm-linux-gnu
> directory, and distribute that. Tell your 'users' to extract it wherever
> they want, and export PATH="...../i686-zm-linux-gnu/bin:${PATH}"
> 
> Note that, if your 'users' are not in the same legal entity as you are,
> then you do have some obligations due to the licensing terms og the
> different tools you are using (GPLv2+, GPLv3+, LGPLv2.1+, and maybe
> others), since you are in fact distributing the toolchain. Be sure to
> understand that! ;-)

I would almost say to install the ct-ng locally, build the toolchain,
then do the following command

for i in .build/* ; test ! ".build/tarballs" = "$i" && rm -rf $i ; done

finally package up the whole local install, providing a short installer
script (like runme or something) that would allow the user to configure
ct-ng locally, build the toolchain, and viola!  You are there (without
any problems with licenses, machine binary differences, and the toolchain
would be dynamically built -- which is FAR EASIER to do than build it
statically (I've had problems with statically linked gcc's and such).

That would be my 0.02 USD.

Andy

Re: Q: whald should I give my "customers" ?

[Mau Z]

Thanks again (worth a lot for me).

I have no  problems with licenses (all in the same city).

I thought that the idea is that the whole system is compiled with the
same toolchain (rootfs + drivers + applications).
Is'nt it so ?

But this leeds me to snother question which deserves a separate thread.....


Thanks
Mau


On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 1:09 AM, ANDY KENNEDY <ANDY.KENNEDY@adtran.com> wrote:
> <snip>
>> > Is there a good or bad way to "deliver" the newly created toolchain ?
>>
>> The simplest is just to create a tarball of your x-tools/i686-zm-linux-gnu
>> directory, and distribute that. Tell your 'users' to extract it wherever
>> they want, and export PATH="...../i686-zm-linux-gnu/bin:${PATH}"
>>
>> Note that, if your 'users' are not in the same legal entity as you are,
>> then you do have some obligations due to the licensing terms og the
>> different tools you are using (GPLv2+, GPLv3+, LGPLv2.1+, and maybe
>> others), since you are in fact distributing the toolchain. Be sure to
>> understand that! ;-)
>
> I would almost say to install the ct-ng locally, build the toolchain,
> then do the following command
>
> for i in .build/* ; test ! ".build/tarballs" = "$i" && rm -rf $i ; done
>
> finally package up the whole local install, providing a short installer
> script (like runme or something) that would allow the user to configure
> ct-ng locally, build the toolchain, and viola!  You are there (without
> any problems with licenses, machine binary differences, and the toolchain
> would be dynamically built -- which is FAR EASIER to do than build it
> statically (I've had problems with statically linked gcc's and such).
>
> That would be my 0.02 USD.
>
> Andy

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Re: Q: whald should I give my "customers" ?

[Martin Guy]

On 31/12/2013, Mau Z <zmau1962@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have no  problems with licenses (all in the same city).

You may not, but the GNU foundation and your customers may!

If you give executables of GPL-ed software to people, you must also
make available to them the sources used to created those binaries: the
tarballs of the binutils, gcc, glibc sources and, of course, of the
build system used to compile them (crosstool-ng).

That is the *letter* of the law. The *spirit* of the law is to put the
users of the software in a position to rebuild the software they are
using from source, exactly the same way that you did, so that they can
fix bugs, make modifications, reconfigure and so on.

In practice I have knowingly broken the letter of the GPL in the past,
by distributing patch sets to GCC or crosstool and the resulting
cross-compiler binaries, since the patches and build system were a few
K, the full sources were hundreds of megabytes and my inet connection
was from home at a few 10s of K per second.
  In theory you should offer to provide the sources yourself. In
practice, supplying build instructions for publicly-available packages
such as unmodified crosstool-ng and the things it downloads seems to
be acceptable.  It certainly achieves the goal of the GPL, which is to
give the users freedom.

Cheers

    M

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Re: Q: whald should I give my "customers" ?

[Baruch Siach]

Hi Martin,

On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 07:57:34PM +0100, Martin Guy wrote:
> On 31/12/2013, Mau Z <zmau1962@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I have no  problems with licenses (all in the same city).
> 
> You may not, but the GNU foundation and your customers may!
> 
> If you give executables of GPL-ed software to people, you must also
> make available to them the sources used to created those binaries: the
> tarballs of the binutils, gcc, glibc sources and, of course, of the
> build system used to compile them (crosstool-ng).

That's is not my understanding of the license. According to subsection 6b of 
the GPLv3 license (http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-3.0.html), it is enough to 
"accompany" the binary program you distribute with "a written offer... to 
give... a copy of the Corresponding Source...". No need to send the huge pack 
of source code when nobody asked for it.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer.

baruch

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=}------------------------------------------------ooO--U--Ooo------------{=
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Re: Q: whald should I give my "customers" ?

[Mau Z]

Thanks all,
I understand like Baruch Siach,  but in this case everything will be supplied.

Happy new year.

Thanks
Mau


On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 9:40 PM, Baruch Siach <baruch@tkos.co.il> wrote:
> Hi Martin,
>
> On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 07:57:34PM +0100, Martin Guy wrote:
>> On 31/12/2013, Mau Z <zmau1962@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > I have no  problems with licenses (all in the same city).
>>
>> You may not, but the GNU foundation and your customers may!
>>
>> If you give executables of GPL-ed software to people, you must also
>> make available to them the sources used to created those binaries: the
>> tarballs of the binutils, gcc, glibc sources and, of course, of the
>> build system used to compile them (crosstool-ng).
>
> That's is not my understanding of the license. According to subsection 6b of
> the GPLv3 license (http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-3.0.html), it is enough to
> "accompany" the binary program you distribute with "a written offer... to
> give... a copy of the Corresponding Source...". No need to send the huge pack
> of source code when nobody asked for it.
>
> Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer.
>
> baruch
>
> --
>      http://baruch.siach.name/blog/                  ~. .~   Tk Open Systems
> =}------------------------------------------------ooO--U--Ooo------------{=
>    - baruch@tkos.co.il - tel: +972.2.679.5364, http://www.tkos.co.il -

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