I want to believe!

I want to believe!

[Dave Korn]

  .... Just to return to the evolution-vs-creationism debate for a minute, I
want to say that I have recently been converted.

  http://www.venganza.org/ says it all as far as I'm concerned!



    cheers, 
      DaveK
-- 
Can't think of a witty .sigline today....

Re: I want to believe!

[Corinna Vinschen]

On Aug 11 15:38, Dave Korn wrote:
> ----Original Message----
> >From: Corinna Vinschen
> >Sent: 11 August 2005 15:16
> 
> > With noodly greetings,
> 
>   RAmen sister!

Along these lines:

http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/08/19/1849212&from=rss

As one of the comments says rightly:

"They risk making the Flying Spaghetti Monster furiously angry and being
 strangled by His Noodly Appendage. We should recognies that there are
 things man was not meant to do, and leave it firmly in the realm of pasta."


Ramen,
Corinna

Re: I want to believe!

[Igor Pechtchanski]

On Mon, 15 Aug 2005, Corinna Vinschen wrote:

> On Aug 15 11:52, Igor Pechtchanski wrote:
> > On Thu, 11 Aug 2005, Dave Korn wrote:
> > >   Whenever a hippo falls, it is because it has been first raised
> > > high by His Noodly Appendage.  FACT!
> >
> > Flusspferd Anghang Chargieren Teigwaren?
>
> s/Anghang/Anhang, but otherwise, well done!  It's even OnT ;-)

Yep, a typo when transferring from an on-line translation service after
too many years of playing Angband (and here you thought I spoke German
>:-D).

> > To all the German-speakers out there -- I searched long and hard for a
> > suitable German word that starts with a "c", and Chargieren is the only
> > one I found.  Any other suggestions? :-)
>
> Corinna
> ^
> hint

Flusspferd Anhang Corinna Teigwaren?  As in "Hippo Appendage Corinna
Noodle"?  Hmm, that explains a lot... :-)
	Igor
-- 
				http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/
      |\      _,,,---,,_		pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu
ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_		igor@watson.ibm.com
     |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'		Igor Pechtchanski, Ph.D.
    '---''(_/--'  `-'\_) fL	a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-.  Meow!

If there's any real truth it's that the entire multidimensional infinity
of the Universe is almost certainly being run by a bunch of maniacs. /DA

Re: I want to believe!

[Corinna Vinschen]

On Aug 15 11:52, Igor Pechtchanski wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Aug 2005, Dave Korn wrote:
> >   Whenever a hippo falls, it is because it has been first raised high by His
> > Noodly Appendage.  FACT!
> 
> Flusspferd Anghang Chargieren Teigwaren?

s/Anghang/Anhang, but otherwise, well done!  It's even OnT ;-)

> To all the German-speakers out there -- I searched long and hard for a
> suitable German word that starts with a "c", and Chargieren is the only
> one I found.  Any other suggestions? :-)


Corinna
^
hint

RE: I want to believe!

[Igor Pechtchanski]

On Thu, 11 Aug 2005, Dave Korn wrote:

> ----Original Message----
> >From: Christopher Faylor
> >Sent: 11 August 2005 15:45
>
> > On Thu, Aug 11, 2005 at 03:38:51PM +0100, Dave Korn wrote:
> >> ----Original Message----
> >>> From: Corinna Vinschen
> >>> Sent: 11 August 2005 15:16
> >>
> >>> With noodly greetings,
> >>
> >> RAmen sister!
> >>
> >>> Corinna
> >>>
> >>> Ob-OnT: Why a midget?  Why not a hippo?
> >>
> >> He used to be really tall, until a hippo fell on him!
> >
> > Aha!  It's all coming together now!
> >
> > cgf
>
>   Whenever a hippo falls, it is because it has been first raised high by His
> Noodly Appendage.  FACT!

Flusspferd Anghang Chargieren Teigwaren?

To all the German-speakers out there -- I searched long and hard for a
suitable German word that starts with a "c", and Chargieren is the only
one I found.  Any other suggestions? :-)
	Igor
-- 
				http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/
      |\      _,,,---,,_		pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu
ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_		igor@watson.ibm.com
     |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'		Igor Pechtchanski, Ph.D.
    '---''(_/--'  `-'\_) fL	a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-.  Meow!

If there's any real truth it's that the entire multidimensional infinity
of the Universe is almost certainly being run by a bunch of maniacs. /DA

RE: I want to believe!

[Gary R. Van Sickle]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: cygwin-talk-owner@cygwin.com 
> [mailto:cygwin-talk-owner@cygwin.com] On Behalf Of Dave Korn
> Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 4:30 AM
> To: 'extremely ironic design'
> Subject: RE: I want to believe!
> 
> ----Original Message----
> >From: Gary R. Van Sickle
> >Sent: 12 August 2005 00:48
> 
> >>   "Alle wir werden durch seinen Nudlich Anhang berührt".
> >> (I'm sure that babelfish will have adequately translated that for 
> >> me!)
> >> 
> > 
> > Wh... Huh?  I thought you were a convert?!?  Of COURSE Babelfish 
> > translated that properly:
> 
> 
>   All we are affected by its Nudlich appendix!
> 
> 

There you go... Bask in its noodly goodness.

-- 
Gary R. Van Sickle

RE: I want to believe!

[Buchbinder, Barry (NIH/NIAID)]

At Friday, August 12, 2005 3:05 PM, Bill Hughes wrote:
> On 8/11/05, Buchbinder, Barry (NIH/NIAID) <BBuchbinder@niaid.nih.gov>
> wrote: ..snip..
>> (2) Organisms are not all that well designed.  One example.  Having
>> the optic nerve traversing the retina to attach from "above" results
>> (a) in a blind spot in the retina where the nerve goes through, (b)
>> in the nerves shading the retina leading to slightly lower
>> sensitivity, and (c) the ability of the retina to detach from the
>> eyeball, leading to blinds.(sic)
> Except Ocotpoi and other cephalopods, - they have a properly
> 'designed' (ahem!) retina which is the right way round - the optic
> nerve comes from behind the retina and so no blind spot. When I read
> some of the rubbish on evolution vs Idiotic Debate I wish people
> would learn to use their Noodles...   
> 
> --
> regards,
> Bill

Exactly.  This proves that the "Intelligent Designer" knew how to correctly
design an eye, but forgot to do it when designing vertebrates.  The designer
may be intelligent but not so smart, in my opinion.

Re: I want to believe!

[Bill Hughes]

On 8/11/05, Buchbinder, Barry (NIH/NIAID) <BBuchbinder@niaid.nih.gov> wrote:
..snip.. 
> (2) Organisms are not all that well designed.  One example.  Having the
> optic nerve traversing the retina to attach from "above" results (a) in a
> blind spot in the retina where the nerve goes through, (b) in the nerves
> shading the retina leading to slightly lower sensitivity, and (c) the
> ability of the retina to detach from the eyeball, leading to blinds.(sic)
Except Ocotpoi and other cephalopods, - they have a properly
'designed' (ahem!) retina which is the right way round - the optic
nerve comes from behind the retina and so no blind spot.
When I read some of the rubbish on evolution vs Idiotic Debate I wish
people would learn to use their Noodles...

-- 
regards,
Bill

RE: I want to believe!

[Dave Korn]

----Original Message----
>From: Gary R. Van Sickle
>Sent: 12 August 2005 00:48

>>   "Alle wir werden durch seinen Nudlich Anhang berührt".
>> (I'm sure that babelfish will have adequately translated that for me!)
>> 
> 
> Wh... Huh?  I thought you were a convert?!?  Of COURSE Babelfish
> translated that properly:


  All we are affected by its Nudlich appendix!


    cheers,
      DaveK
-- 
Can't think of a witty .sigline today....

Re: I want to believe!

[Gerrit P. Haase]

Christopher Faylor wrote:

>>I think you mean Ironic Design (ID).
> 
> I think I found a web site which describes this:
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/93kv

I like this one:
http://tinyurl.com/dss76

looks like they're fighting against some kind of noodle or hippo or
whatever.


Gerrit
-- 
Ironing Design (ID) engineer, kindly elected by his noodly appendage

RE: I want to believe!

[Gary R. Van Sickle]

> With noodly greetings,
> Corinna

Heheheheee, "noodly greetings"!

I like saying "noodly".

-- 
Gary R. Van Sickle
 

RE: I want to believe!

[Gary R. Van Sickle]

>   "Alle wir werden durch seinen Nudlich Anhang berührt".  
> (I'm sure that babelfish will have adequately translated that for me!)
> 

Wh... Huh?  I thought you were a convert?!?  Of COURSE Babelfish translated
that properly:

1.  Babelfish clearly shows signs that it maybe could have been designed by
some intelligent entity.
2.  Ergo, it was designed by an intelligent entity.
3.  Ergo, it is perfect.
4.  Ergo, Just between you and me, we both know which intelligent entity
made out of spaghetti built it.
5.  Ergo, it should be given "equal time" (wink wink) in Kansas high-school
foreign language classes.

NUDLICH UBER ALLES!!!

-- 
Gary R. Van Sickle

Re: I want to believe!

[Christopher Faylor]

On Thu, Aug 11, 2005 at 12:20:59PM -0400, Paul Stodghill wrote:
>Dave Korn wrote:
>>  Hold on!  I think I've just uncovered convincing evidence of SD (Stupid
>>Design).  Hallelujahgobble, I'm converted _again_!
>
>Stupid Design!? Heresy!
>
>I think you mean Ironic Design (ID).

I think I found a web site which describes this:

http://tinyurl.com/93kv

cgf

Re: I want to believe!

[Paul Stodghill]

Dave Korn wrote:
>   Hold on!  I think I've just uncovered convincing evidence of SD (Stupid
> Design).  Hallelujahgobble, I'm converted _again_!

Stupid Design!? Heresy!

I think you mean Ironic Design (ID).

RE: I want to believe!

[Dave Korn]

----Original Message----
>From: Paul Stodghill
>Sent: 11 August 2005 16:42

> Buchbinder, Barry (NIH/NIAID) wrote:
>> Another example: Having the paths that air and food/water must take to
>> share space and even cross over can lead to things going down the wrong
>> way and even to death.
> 
> And snarfing. Hence, this is a good design that could have only been
> created by an intelligence with an extremely broad sense of humor. I
> think that many, many, other examples of can be easily found. E.g.,
> anything involving computers, White House press releases, most popular
> culture, and hippos.

  Hold on!  I think I've just uncovered convincing evidence of SD (Stupid
Design).  Hallelujahgobble, I'm converted _again_!

    cheers,
      DaveK
-- 
Can't think of a witty .sigline today....

Re: I want to believe!

[Paul Stodghill]

Buchbinder, Barry (NIH/NIAID) wrote:
> Another example: Having the paths that air and food/water must take to share
> space and even cross over can lead to things going down the wrong way and
> even to death.

And snarfing. Hence, this is a good design that could have only been 
created by an intelligence with an extremely broad sense of humor. I 
think that many, many, other examples of can be easily found. E.g., 
anything involving computers, White House press releases, most popular 
culture, and hippos.

RE: I want to believe!

[Buchbinder, Barry (NIH/NIAID)]

At Thursday, August 11, 2005 2:19 AM, James R. Phillips wrote:
> Hm, I don't usually post or even read this list, but now you've
> tempted me. 
> The original thread seems to have been back in April?  So perhaps you
> are referring to the recent buzz over ID (Intelligent Design); I
> guess it made the cover of _Time_.  
> 
> There are a lot of misconceptions regarding ID.  It isn't creationism
> at all; it is based on scientific methodologies used every day in
> fields such as anthropology or archeology.  An article you might want
> to look at outlining the controversy is   
> 
> http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/klinghoffer200508030811.asp.
> 
> A pretty good concise summary of the theory is at
> 
> http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=8543
> 
> Jim Phillips

(1) The "finding a watch on the beach implied a watchmaker" no longer holds.
Random events can result in innovation, at least with electronics, if not
with mechanical devices, which must fit perfectly to work.  See John R.
Koza, Martin A. Keane and Matthew J. Streeter (2003) "Evolving Inventions",
Scientific American, pp 52-59.

(2) Organisms are not all that well designed.  One example.  Having the
optic nerve traversing the retina to attach from "above" results (a) in a
blind spot in the retina where the nerve goes through, (b) in the nerves
shading the retina leading to slightly lower sensitivity, and (c) the
ability of the retina to detach from the eyeball, leading to blinds.
Another example: Having the paths that air and food/water must take to share
space and even cross over can lead to things going down the wrong way and
even to death.

RE: I want to believe!

[Dave Korn]

----Original Message----
>From: Christopher Faylor
>Sent: 11 August 2005 15:45

> On Thu, Aug 11, 2005 at 03:38:51PM +0100, Dave Korn wrote:
>> ----Original Message----
>>> From: Corinna Vinschen
>>> Sent: 11 August 2005 15:16
>> 
>>> With noodly greetings,
>> 
>> RAmen sister!
>> 
>>> Corinna
>>> 
>>> Ob-OnT: Why a midget?  Why not a hippo?
>> 
>> He used to be really tall, until a hippo fell on him!
> 
> Aha!  It's all coming together now!
> 
> cgf


  Whenever a hippo falls, it is because it has been first raised high by His
Noodly Appendage.  FACT!


    cheers,
      DaveK
-- 
Can't think of a witty .sigline today....

Re: I want to believe!

[Christopher Faylor]

On Thu, Aug 11, 2005 at 03:38:51PM +0100, Dave Korn wrote:
>----Original Message----
>>From: Corinna Vinschen
>>Sent: 11 August 2005 15:16
>
>>With noodly greetings,
>
>RAmen sister!
>
>>Corinna
>>
>>Ob-OnT: Why a midget?  Why not a hippo?
>
>He used to be really tall, until a hippo fell on him!

Aha!  It's all coming together now!

cgf

RE: I want to believe!

[Dave Korn]

----Original Message----
>From: Corinna Vinschen
>Sent: 11 August 2005 15:16

> With noodly greetings,

  RAmen sister!

> Corinna
> 
> 
> Ob-OnT: Why a midget?  Why not a hippo?

  He used to be really tall, until a hippo fell on him!


    cheers,
      DaveK
-- 
Can't think of a witty .sigline today....

Re: I want to believe!

[Corinna Vinschen]

On Aug 11 14:06, Dave Korn wrote:
> >From: Corinna Vinschen
> > On Aug 11 12:45, Dave Korn wrote:
> >>   We are all touched by his noodly appendage!
> > 
> > Huh?  Can you please make jokes which are also recognizable as such
> > by non-native english speakers?  
> 
>   "Alle wir werden durch seinen Nudlich Anhang berührt".  (I'm sure that
> babelfish will have adequately translated that for me!)

Well, it's close to something called "german language", at least
single words of it.  As for the semantics...

>   Wrong article.  I was referring to  http://www.venganza.org/ as per my
> first post in this thread!  If you haven't read it yet, you should; it's a
> very important contribution to the debate.

Now everything suddenly makes sense.  Thanks for pointing us to this
valuable source of information.  I'm terribly sorry that I missed it
so far.


With noodly greetings,
Corinna


Ob-OnT: Why a midget?  Why not a hippo?

RE: I want to believe!

[Dave Korn]

----Original Message----
>From: Corinna Vinschen
>Sent: 11 August 2005 12:59

> On Aug 11 12:45, Dave Korn wrote:
>> ----Original Message----
>>> From: James R. Phillips
>>> Sent: 11 August 2005 07:19
>> 
>>> Hm, I don't usually post or even read this list, but now you've tempted
>>> me. The original thread seems to have been back in April?  So perhaps
>>> you are referring to the recent buzz over ID (Intelligent Design); I
>>> guess it made the cover of _Time_. 
>>> 
>>> There are a lot of misconceptions regarding ID.  It isn't creationism at
>>> all; it is based on scientific methodologies used every day in fields
>>> such as anthropology or archeology.
>> 
>>   No, you've got it all wrong!  I said I was converted, and I have been!
>> I not only believe in ID, I know exactly *who* the designer is and _how_
>> he did it! 
>> 
>>   We are all touched by his noodly appendage!
> 
> Huh?  Can you please make jokes which are also recognizable as such
> by non-native english speakers?  

  "Alle wir werden durch seinen Nudlich Anhang berührt".  (I'm sure that
babelfish will have adequately translated that for me!)

>At least I'm pretty sure that you're joking.
> 
> I just read the article.
> 
> "Instead, they argue that design is the best scientific explanation for
>  the stunning complexity of the cellular processes that underlie life,
>  and for the evidence of how life actually developed."

  Wrong article.  I was referring to  http://www.venganza.org/ as per my
first post in this thread!  If you haven't read it yet, you should; it's a
very important contribution to the debate.

> What a crap.  Take a couple of billion micro-organisms and give them
> a billion years time to get used to their environment.  Doesn't sound
> too surprising to me that a lot of intelligently appearing live forms
> are a result of that process.  No place for a creator in that picture
> if you ask me.

  (I'll write a serious-minded rebuttal of the claims in the article when I
have more spare time.)


    cheers,
      DaveK
-- 
Can't think of a witty .sigline today....

Re: I want to believe!

[Corinna Vinschen]

On Aug 11 12:45, Dave Korn wrote:
> ----Original Message----
> >From: James R. Phillips
> >Sent: 11 August 2005 07:19
> 
> > Hm, I don't usually post or even read this list, but now you've tempted
> > me. The original thread seems to have been back in April?  So perhaps you
> > are referring to the recent buzz over ID (Intelligent Design); I guess it
> > made the cover of _Time_.
> > 
> > There are a lot of misconceptions regarding ID.  It isn't creationism at
> > all; it is based on scientific methodologies used every day in fields
> > such as anthropology or archeology.  
> 
>   No, you've got it all wrong!  I said I was converted, and I have been!  I
> not only believe in ID, I know exactly *who* the designer is and _how_ he
> did it!
> 
>   We are all touched by his noodly appendage!

Huh?  Can you please make jokes which are also recognizable as such
by non-native english speakers?  At least I'm pretty sure that you're
joking.

I just read the article.

"Instead, they argue that design is the best scientific explanation for
 the stunning complexity of the cellular processes that underlie life,
 and for the evidence of how life actually developed."

What a crap.  Take a couple of billion micro-organisms and give them
a billion years time to get used to their environment.  Doesn't sound
too surprising to me that a lot of intelligently appearing live forms
are a result of that process.  No place for a creator in that picture
if you ask me.


Corinna

RE: I want to believe!

[Dave Korn]

----Original Message----
>From: James R. Phillips
>Sent: 11 August 2005 07:19

> Hm, I don't usually post or even read this list, but now you've tempted
> me. The original thread seems to have been back in April?  So perhaps you
> are referring to the recent buzz over ID (Intelligent Design); I guess it
> made the cover of _Time_.
> 
> There are a lot of misconceptions regarding ID.  It isn't creationism at
> all; it is based on scientific methodologies used every day in fields
> such as anthropology or archeology.  

  No, you've got it all wrong!  I said I was converted, and I have been!  I
not only believe in ID, I know exactly *who* the designer is and _how_ he
did it!

  We are all touched by his noodly appendage!

    cheers,
      DaveK
-- 
Can't think of a witty .sigline today....

RE: I want to believe!

[Gary R. Van Sickle]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: cygwin-talk-owner@cygwin.com 
> [mailto:cygwin-talk-owner@cygwin.com] On Behalf Of James R. Phillips
> Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 1:19 AM
> To: cygwin-talk@cygwin.com
> Subject: Re: I want to believe!
> 
> Hm, I don't usually post or even read this list, but now 
> you've tempted me. 
> The original thread seems to have been back in April?  So 
> perhaps you are referring to the recent buzz over ID 
> (Intelligent Design); I guess it made the cover of _Time_.
> 
> There are a lot of misconceptions regarding ID.  It isn't 
> creationism at all; it is based on scientific methodologies 
> used every day in fields such as anthropology or archeology.  
> An article you might want to look at outlining the controversy is
> 
> http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/klinghoffer200508030811.asp.
> 
> A pretty good concise summary of the theory is at
> 
> http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=8543
> 
> Jim Phillips

Lets see the peer-reviewed journal articles documenting the overwhelming
evidence that anything that could possibly go by the name "Intelligent
Design" is anything more than "Creationist Hucksterism."  And you can leave
out the ones that inexplicably confuse cosmology and evolution in the first
sentence, because we can all agree that those are nonsensical from the
get-go.

Until such time as the "Intelligent" gets added to "Intelligent Design", I
think it behooves us all to simply ignore it in favor of the
much-better-supported Theory of Spaghetti Monsterism.

-- 
Gary R. Van Sickle
 

Re: I want to believe!

[James R. Phillips]

Hm, I don't usually post or even read this list, but now you've tempted me. 
The original thread seems to have been back in April?  So perhaps you are
referring to the recent buzz over ID (Intelligent Design); I guess it made the
cover of _Time_.

There are a lot of misconceptions regarding ID.  It isn't creationism at all;
it is based on scientific methodologies used every day in fields such as
anthropology or archeology.  An article you might want to look at outlining the
controversy is

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/klinghoffer200508030811.asp.

A pretty good concise summary of the theory is at

http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=8543

Jim Phillips