Re: Windows Subsystem For Linux

Re: Windows Subsystem For Linux

[lloyd.wood]

A viewpoint on this whole Windows Ubuntu Frankenstein hybrid vs Cygwin thing:

In comparison with the difficulties trying to build Geomview under 64-bit Cygwin,
then discovering the piping issues that prevent it working with modules, using
the Windows Ubuntu subsystem to install pre-existing Ubuntu packages and dependencies
turned out to be surprisingly straightforward and user friendly.

Compare the instructions on:
http://personal.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/L.Wood/software/SaVi/building-under-Windows/

and you can see why the complex build-on-Cygwin instructions are now listed last. (I also had
no problem pulling in gcc and tk-dev and building SaVi from source. Haven't yet tried with
Geomview!)

I think Cygwin's Xming will soon be the most popular Cygwin spinoff, filling the same
free Xserver role that XQuartz does on Mac OS X now that no longer ships an Xserver
with the OS, and I think we're all going to be very grateful that Xming exists.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xming

 
Lloyd Wood
http://savi.sf.net/

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Re: Windows Subsystem For Linux

[Marco Atzeri]

On 30/08/2016 09:44, lloyd.wood@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
> A viewpoint on this whole Windows Ubuntu Frankenstein hybrid vs Cygwin thing:
>
> In comparison with the difficulties trying to build Geomview under 64-bit Cygwin,
> then discovering the piping issues that prevent it working with modules, using
> the Windows Ubuntu subsystem to install pre-existing Ubuntu packages and dependencies
> turned out to be surprisingly straightforward and user friendly.
>
> Compare the instructions on:
> http://personal.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/L.Wood/software/SaVi/building-under-Windows/
>
> and you can see why the complex build-on-Cygwin instructions are now listed last. (I also had
> no problem pulling in gcc and tk-dev and building SaVi from source. Haven't yet tried with
> Geomview!)
>
> I think Cygwin's Xming will soon be the most popular Cygwin spinoff, filling the same
> free Xserver role that XQuartz does on Mac OS X now that no longer ships an Xserver
> with the OS, and I think we're all going to be very grateful that Xming exists.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xming
>
>
> Lloyd Wood
> http://savi.sf.net/
>

I will not use your experience on geomview / savi as standard reference 
of effort for porting software to cygwin.

Last June I had little problem to built geomview-1.95 from source.
It was almost vanilla effort with minimal patch.

Savi needed a bit more of effort but it was mainly due to the old
style of building method and the peculiar startup script.

I doubt the communication issue between the 2 packages on 64 bit
are really due to "piping issues", I suspect more a wrong assumptions
in the chain and I will not bet on tcl/tk correctness.

My effort and the cyport files are located here:
http://matzeri.altervista.org/x86_64/index.html

feel free to reuse it.

Regards
Marco


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Re: Windows Subsystem For Linux

[Andrey Repin]

Greetings, lloyd.wood@yahoo.co.uk!

> A viewpoint on this whole Windows Ubuntu Frankenstein hybrid vs Cygwin thing:

> In comparison with the difficulties trying to build Geomview under 64-bit Cygwin,
> then discovering the piping issues that prevent it working with modules, using
> the Windows Ubuntu subsystem to install pre-existing Ubuntu packages and dependencies
> turned out to be surprisingly straightforward and user friendly.

> Compare the instructions on:
> http://personal.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/L.Wood/software/SaVi/building-under-Windows/

> and you can see why the complex build-on-Cygwin instructions are now listed last. (I also had
> no problem pulling in gcc and tk-dev and building SaVi from source. Haven't yet tried with
> Geomview!)

> I think Cygwin's Xming will soon be the most popular Cygwin spinoff, filling the same
> free Xserver role that XQuartz does on Mac OS X now that no longer ships an Xserver
> with the OS, and I think we're all going to be very grateful that Xming exists.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xming

Now try to pipe something from a native application to your UFW build, and
then the results from it to something else native.
I'm eagerly awaiting reports of your success.


-- 
With best regards,
Andrey Repin
Tuesday, August 30, 2016 23:43:58

Sorry for my terrible english...


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Re: Windows Subsystem For Linux

[Erik Soderquist]

On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 4:45 PM, Andrey Repin wrote:
> Now try to pipe something from a native application to your UFW build, and
> then the results from it to something else native.
> I'm eagerly awaiting reports of your success.

Done it already, using netcat and a few localhost ports, using ssh,
and using files on the filesystem as flags and I/O
sources/destinations.

-- Erik

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Re: Windows Subsystem For Linux

[Herbert Stocker]

On 30.08.2016 23:26, Erik Soderquist wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 4:45 PM, Andrey Repin wrote:
>> Now try to pipe something from a native application to your UFW build, and
>> then the results from it to something else native.
>> I'm eagerly awaiting reports of your success.
>
> Done it already, using netcat and a few localhost ports, using ssh

Now write a generic script that runs on every box, without interfering
others.

> and using files on the filesystem as flags and I/O
> sources/destinations.

That reminds me on scripting with .bat files back in MS DOS 6.22.

Both are workarounds that take your time managing them, not state of
the art computing.

Herbert




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RE: Windows Subsystem For Linux

[Schwarz, Konrad]

> So I was wondering if the Windows Subsystem For Linux, apparently part
> of Windows 10 Anniversary Update, obsoletes Cygwin.

Thank you for your responses and sorry for the wording of my original post.

I now understand the differences somewhat better.

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Windows Subsystem For Linux

[Schwarz, Konrad]

So I was wondering if the Windows Subsystem For Linux, apparently part of Windows 10 Anniversary Update, obsoletes Cygwin.

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Re: Windows Subsystem For Linux

[Ray Donnelly]

On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 12:00 PM, Schwarz, Konrad
<konrad.schwarz@siemens.com> wrote:
> So I was wondering if the Windows Subsystem For Linux, apparently part of Windows 10 Anniversary Update, obsoletes Cygwin.
>

That seems a *little* inflammatory to me. Since Windows Subsystem for
Linux can't inter-operate with Windows very well, no it doesn't.

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Re: Windows Subsystem For Linux

[Tim Prince]

On 8/29/2016 7:15 AM, Ray Donnelly wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 12:00 PM, Schwarz, Konrad
> <konrad.schwarz@siemens.com> wrote:
>> So I was wondering if the Windows Subsystem For Linux, apparently part of Windows 10 Anniversary Update, obsoletes Cygwin.
>>
> That seems a *little* inflammatory to me. Since Windows Subsystem for
> Linux can't inter-operate with Windows very well, no it doesn't.
Although the Ubuntu subsystem doesn't provide a current gcc, it's
possible to build one now in the Anniversary version.  Attempting to run
the g++ testsuite hangs the subsystem, requiring a reboot.  It is
possible to run other individual test suites in parallel in separate
bash sessions, unlike under cygwin.
I've been wondering whether any conclusions might be drawn from the
relative performance of cygwin and linux subsystem.  Disk and internet
access appear slow in the subsystem, but math functions and OpenMP seem
to perform better under linux.
As Win10 works on only one of my 3 Windows installations (the oldest
box), it doesn't look to be a replacement any time soon. For just one
example, the Ubuntu vim isn't nearly as convenient as I've become used to.
> Tim Prince

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Re: Windows Subsystem For Linux

[Keith Christian]

Any software add-on which aims to "replace Cygwin" will have to
address each and every use case for which Cygwin is currently chosen
by so many users.

Cygwin has made HUGE strides over the years and with every iteration
improves our efficiency as we interact with Windows.  (Thank you,
Cygwin Maintainers !!)

Windows Subsystem For Linux sounds like a great idea though, usability
reports would be read with interest by the majority of users on this
list,as well as what "WSFL" can (and cannot) do vis-a-vis Cygwin.



On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 5:15 AM, Ray Donnelly <mingw.android@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 12:00 PM, Schwarz, Konrad
> <konrad.schwarz@siemens.com> wrote:
>> So I was wondering if the Windows Subsystem For Linux, apparently part of Windows 10 Anniversary Update, obsoletes Cygwin.
>>
>
> That seems a *little* inflammatory to me. Since Windows Subsystem for
> Linux can't inter-operate with Windows very well, no it doesn't.
>
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Re: Windows Subsystem For Linux

[Andrey Repin]

Greetings, Schwarz, Konrad!

> So I was wondering if the Windows Subsystem For Linux, apparently part of
> Windows 10 Anniversary Update, obsoletes Cygwin.

Please don't start this flamewar again.
The topic was discussed to death, use search.

In short, the problem is that is an isolated subsystem. Which makes it no
better than a Linux VM, for example.


-- 
With best regards,
Andrey Repin
Monday, August 29, 2016 17:16:31

Sorry for my terrible english...


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Re: Windows Subsystem For Linux

[Andrew Schulman]

> So I was wondering if the Windows Subsystem For Linux, apparently part of Windows 10 Anniversary Update, obsoletes Cygwin.

For a previous discussion of this, see the thread starting at
https://sourceware.org/ml/cygwin/2016-04/msg00244.html.


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