Screen crippled by applications using alternative screen

Screen crippled by applications using alternative screen

[Dawid Ferenczy]

Hi,

I'm still having issues with applications which use alternative screen for 
output (LESS, MAN). When I exit that application, its output stays on 
screen, prompt is displayed over it.

My system is as follows:

OS: Windows 7 Home 64 bit
Cygwin: 1.7.29 64 bit
Console emulator: ConEmu 140416 64 bit, Console 2.00.148 64 bit

Example steps to reproduce the issue:

1. execute "man grep"
2. scroll down to the end (PAGE DOWN)
3. exit (press Q), result: http://ferenczy.cz/tmp/cygwin/1.png
4. execute "pwd", result: http://ferenczy.cz/tmp/cygwin/2.png
5. clear screen (CTRL + L), result: http://ferenczy.cz/tmp/cygwin/3.png

Behavior is the same in plain cmd.exe, Console2 and ConEmu. MinTTY works 
fine. If I exit MAN on first page (without scrolling), the screen isn't 
crippled.

To reach clean screen I have to repeatedly clear the screen (CTRL + L) until 
I browse whole MAN output (all pages). Alternative screen should be 
completely separated from the regular screen.

It's probably caused by that Cygwin doesn't send ANSI codes to the console 
emulator, see https://code.google.com/p/conemu-maximus5/wiki/CygwinAnsi. It 
has another consequences, for example there doesn't work mouse in 
applications under Cygwin, see https://code.google.com/p/conemu-
maximus5/issues/detail?id=1497 (last messages).

Would it be possible to solve this somehow? This could solve all issues with 
crippled screen, scroll buffer, not working mouse etc, I guess. Moreover 
ANSI codes are standard behavior.

Thank you for your opinion.

-- 
 Dawid Ferenczy
 http://twitter.com/DawidFerenczy


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Re: Screen crippled by applications using alternative screen

[Christopher Faylor]

On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 05:20:21PM +0000, Dawid Ferenczy wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I'm still having issues with applications which use alternative screen for 
>output (LESS, MAN). When I exit that application, its output stays on 
>screen, prompt is displayed over it.
>
>My system is as follows:
>
>OS: Windows 7 Home 64 bit
>Cygwin: 1.7.29 64 bit
>Console emulator: ConEmu 140416 64 bit, Console 2.00.148 64 bit
>
>Example steps to reproduce the issue:
>
>1. execute "man grep"
>2. scroll down to the end (PAGE DOWN)
>3. exit (press Q), result: http://ferenczy.cz/tmp/cygwin/1.png
>4. execute "pwd", result: http://ferenczy.cz/tmp/cygwin/2.png
>5. clear screen (CTRL + L), result: http://ferenczy.cz/tmp/cygwin/3.png
>
>Behavior is the same in plain cmd.exe, Console2 and ConEmu. MinTTY works 
>fine. If I exit MAN on first page (without scrolling), the screen isn't 
>crippled.
>
>To reach clean screen I have to repeatedly clear the screen (CTRL + L) until 
>I browse whole MAN output (all pages). Alternative screen should be 
>completely separated from the regular screen.
>
>It's probably caused by that Cygwin doesn't send ANSI codes to the console 
>emulator, see https://code.google.com/p/conemu-maximus5/wiki/CygwinAnsi.

"doesn't send ANSI codes to the console" doesn't make a lot of sense.
"Cygwin" doesn't send ANSI codes to the windows console since the windows
console doesn't understand ANSI codes.

I don't see the behavior that you are specifying but I doubt that what
you are seeing has anything to do with the gobbledegook on the above
page.  If you do want "Cygwin" to send ANSI escape sequences then you'll
need to make sure that you're using a package which knows how to send
them, i.e., an ncurses-using package, and that the TERM environment
variable is set appropriately.

cgf

It 
>has another consequences, for example there doesn't work mouse in 
>applications under Cygwin, see https://code.google.com/p/conemu-
>maximus5/issues/detail?id=1497 (last messages).
>
>Would it be possible to solve this somehow? This could solve all issues with 
>crippled screen, scroll buffer, not working mouse etc, I guess. Moreover 
>ANSI codes are standard behavior.
>
>Thank you for your opinion.
>
>-- 
> Dawid Ferenczy
> http://twitter.com/DawidFerenczy
>
>
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>

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Re: Screen crippled by applications using alternative screen

[Christopher Faylor]

On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 01:36:17PM -0400, Christopher Faylor wrote:
>I don't see the behavior that you are specifying...

I duplicated this.  The command window that I use doesn't exhibit this
behavior.  I thought I'd tested pure cmd when making the recent spate of
console handling changes but this one must have slipped by.

It's a shame that, when I repeatedly asked for testing, no one bothered
to do so.

Anyway, this should be fixed in the latest snapshot:

http://cygwin.com/snapshots/

cgf

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Re: Screen crippled by applications using alternative screen

[Dawid Ferenczy]

Christopher Faylor <cgf-use-the-mailinglist-please <at> cygwin.com> writes:

> I duplicated this.  The command window that I use doesn't exhibit this
> behavior.  I thought I'd tested pure cmd when making the recent spate of
> console handling changes but this one must have slipped by.
> 
> It's a shame that, when I repeatedly asked for testing, no one bothered
> to do so.
> 
> Anyway, this should be fixed in the latest snapshot:
> 
> http://cygwin.com/snapshots/
> 
> cgf


Hi Christopher,

   I'm sorry, I didn't read this message before I replied with my previous 
messages. Don't take it too seriously I just was hopeless about this issue. 
I'm going to test it now.

   BTW where did you ask for testing? I haven't read this mailing list 
continuously before, so I'm sorry for that. I'm participating to this list 
using gmane.org only. It seems I'm not subscribed, because I didn't receive 
any e-mails from the mailing list. I'll try to subscribe now.

   Thank you for your attention!

--
 David Ferenczy
 http://twitter.com/DawidFerenczy



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Re: Screen crippled by applications using alternative screen

[Dawid Ferenczy]

Christopher Faylor <cgf-use-the-mailinglist-please <at> cygwin.com> writes:

> Anyway, this should be fixed in the latest snapshot:
> 
> http://cygwin.com/snapshots/
> 
> cgf


Nice! It works fine now. Thank you very much for that, because it was really 
pain for me. I appreciate that.

Have a nice day.

--
 David Ferenczy
 http://twitter.com/DawidFerenczy



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Re: Screen crippled by applications using alternative screen

[Dawid Ferenczy]

Christopher Faylor <cgf-use-the-mailinglist-please <at> cygwin.com> writes:

> I duplicated this.  The command window that I use doesn't exhibit this
> behavior.  I thought I'd tested pure cmd when making the recent spate of
> console handling changes but this one must have slipped by.
> 
> It's a shame that, when I repeatedly asked for testing, no one bothered
> to do so.
> 
> Anyway, this should be fixed in the latest snapshot:
> 
> http://cygwin.com/snapshots/
> 
> cgf


Hi Christopher,

after more extensive using, I have to notice that it's still quite a lot 
buggy. Sometimes there are parts of alternative screen in the scrollback 
buffer, sometimes for example vim hangs while starting or completely 
crashes.

You can see, that sometimes there are 2 blank lines between the prompts, 
sometimes only 1 on this screenshot: http://ferenczy.cz/tmp/cygwin/4.png

I don't know how to simulate crash, hang or scrollback buffer crippling yet, 
it seems that it happens randomly to me.

--
 David Ferenczy
 http://twitter.com/DawidFerenczy



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Re: Screen crippled by applications using alternative screen

[Christopher Faylor]

On Sat, May 03, 2014 at 07:52:22PM +0000, Dawid Ferenczy wrote:
>Christopher Faylor <cgf-use-the-mailinglist-please <at> cygwin.com> writes:
>
>> I duplicated this.  The command window that I use doesn't exhibit this
>> behavior.  I thought I'd tested pure cmd when making the recent spate of
>> console handling changes but this one must have slipped by.
>> 
>> It's a shame that, when I repeatedly asked for testing, no one bothered
>> to do so.
>> 
>> Anyway, this should be fixed in the latest snapshot:
>> 
>> http://cygwin.com/snapshots/
>> 
>> cgf
>
>
>Hi Christopher,
>
>after more extensive using, I have to notice that it's still quite a lot 
>buggy.

You seem to enjoy the use of overly vivid language.

>Sometimes there are parts of alternative screen in the scrollback
>buffer, sometimes for example vim hangs while starting or completely
>crashes.

That is not necessarily related to screen handling.  There are a lot of
changes in the snapshot.

>You can see, that sometimes there are 2 blank lines between the prompts, 
>sometimes only 1 on this screenshot: http://ferenczy.cz/tmp/cygwin/4.png

I would appreciate it if, in the future, you would eschew the screen
shots and just describe the problem with words.

cgf

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Re: Screen crippled by applications using alternative screen

[Dawid Ferenczy]

Christopher Faylor <cgf-use-the-mailinglist-please <at> cygwin.com> writes:

> "doesn't send ANSI codes to the console" doesn't make a lot of sense.
> "Cygwin" doesn't send ANSI codes to the windows console since the windows
> console doesn't understand ANSI codes.
> 
> I don't see the behavior that you are specifying but I doubt that what
> you are seeing has anything to do with the gobbledegook on the above
> page.  If you do want "Cygwin" to send ANSI escape sequences then you'll
> need to make sure that you're using a package which knows how to send
> them, i.e., an ncurses-using package, and that the TERM environment
> variable is set appropriately.
> 
> cgf


Hi Christopher,

   I have a feeling from your arrogant attitude, that there is no chance to 
pay attention to this issue, am I right? That's a pity, because this 
attitude will result in people don't want to waste their time with trying to 
help make this software better. I really don't understand that. I'm happy 
when someone notify me to bug in my software, moreover when he spends his 
time to precisely describe the bug and how to reproduce it. It's not clever 
to make him look stupid.

   I feel sad from this attitude.

   ConEmu developer is open to try to solve this issue. But I thought that 
it would be much better to try to solve it for all console emulators (that 
means by Cygwin), not for ConEmu only.

   Have a nice day.

-- 
 Dawid Ferenczy
 http://twitter.com/DawidFerenczy



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Re: Screen crippled by applications using alternative screen

[Christopher Faylor]

On Sat, Apr 26, 2014 at 06:21:55PM +0000, Dawid Ferenczy wrote:
>Christopher Faylor <cgf-use-the-mailinglist-please <at> cygwin.com> writes:
>
>> "doesn't send ANSI codes to the console" doesn't make a lot of sense.
>> "Cygwin" doesn't send ANSI codes to the windows console since the windows
>> console doesn't understand ANSI codes.
>> 
>> I don't see the behavior that you are specifying but I doubt that what
>> you are seeing has anything to do with the gobbledegook on the above
>> page.  If you do want "Cygwin" to send ANSI escape sequences then you'll
>> need to make sure that you're using a package which knows how to send
>> them, i.e., an ncurses-using package, and that the TERM environment
>> variable is set appropriately.
>> 
>I have a feeling from your arrogant attitude, that there is no chance
>to pay attention to this issue, am I right?  That's a pity, because
>this attitude will result in people don't want to waste their time with
>trying to help make this software better.  I really don't understand
>that.  I'm happy when someone notify me to bug in my software, moreover
>when he spends his time to precisely describe the bug and how to
>reproduce it.  It's not clever to make him look stupid.

Perhaps you aren't a native English speaker and incorrectly took offense
at the mild term "gobbledegook" which was not directed at you.  I was
referring to the author of the web page that you referenced.  If that is
the author of ConEmu then he really doesn't seem to have a handle on how
things work which is rather surprising given that he's written ConEmu.
"ANSI codes" and "Windows consoles" don't mix.

>ConEmu developer is open to try to solve this issue.  But I thought
>that it would be much better to try to solve it for all console
>emulators (that means by Cygwin), not for ConEmu only.

You seem to have missed the point that I posted a new snapshot with a
fix for this particular issue.

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Re: Screen crippled by applications using alternative screen

[Dawid Ferenczy]

Christopher Faylor <cgf-use-the-mailinglist-please <at> cygwin.com> writes:

> Perhaps you aren't a native English speaker and incorrectly took offense
> at the mild term "gobbledegook" which was not directed at you.  I was
> referring to the author of the web page that you referenced.  If that is
> the author of ConEmu then he really doesn't seem to have a handle on how
> things work which is rather surprising given that he's written ConEmu.
> "ANSI codes" and "Windows consoles" don't mix.


I have understood that. I just didn't like that attitude, because I think 
Maximus5 (ConEmu developer) is a good developer and he knows what he's 
doing. But it's possible, that he's wrong in this of course.

But instead of writing that he wrote "gobbledegook", it would be nice to 
describe why he's wrong. So if I can ask you, please, describe it more in 
depth. Because I don't know much about how this works and it seems I have to 
act as a mediator.

Goal is obvious - how to make it work. For example mouse clicks in Midnight 
Commander inside ConEmu. In MinTTY it works, but not in 
ConEmu/Console2/cmd.exe etc. Nobody wants to put blame to others, it just 
would be nice, if it would work. You know a lot about internals, so please 
help with your advices. I'm sure, that it's not a problem for Maximus5 to 
implement whatever.

Thank you and have a nice day.

--
 David Ferenczy
 http://twitter.com/DawidFerenczy



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Re: Screen crippled by applications using alternative screen

[Christopher Faylor]

On Sat, Apr 26, 2014 at 08:16:00PM +0000, Dawid Ferenczy wrote:
>Christopher Faylor <cgf-use-the-mailinglist-please <at> cygwin.com> writes:
>
>> Perhaps you aren't a native English speaker and incorrectly took offense
>> at the mild term "gobbledegook" which was not directed at you.  I was
>> referring to the author of the web page that you referenced.  If that is
>> the author of ConEmu then he really doesn't seem to have a handle on how
>> things work which is rather surprising given that he's written ConEmu.
>> "ANSI codes" and "Windows consoles" don't mix.
>
>
>I have understood that. I just didn't like that attitude, because I think 
>Maximus5 (ConEmu developer) is a good developer and he knows what he's 
>doing. But it's possible, that he's wrong in this of course.
>
>But instead of writing that he wrote "gobbledegook", it would be nice to 
>describe why he's wrong. So if I can ask you, please, describe it more in 
>depth. Because I don't know much about how this works and it seems I have to 
>act as a mediator.

Your expectations of my willingness to engage are not correctly
calibrated.  I'm not going to go out of my way to communicate with
someone who has put Cygwin observations on an external website.  And,
I'm not going to educate you in how the Windows console works.  You have
plenty of places on the internet available to you for that.

I already told you (and you've chosen to ignore) how you might be able
to make things work.  You should stop focusing on your perception of "my
attitude" and just work on improving your understanding.

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Re: Screen crippled by applications using alternative screen

[Dawid Ferenczy]

Christopher Faylor <cgf-use-the-mailinglist-please <at> cygwin.com> writes:

> "doesn't send ANSI codes to the console" doesn't make a lot of sense.
> "Cygwin" doesn't send ANSI codes to the windows console since the windows
> console doesn't understand ANSI codes.

I didn't know that. So how does it work, that I'm able to set cmd.exe window 
title with ANSI escape sequences bellow?

\[\033]0;\w\007\]

It sets cmd.exe window title to the current working directory in bash. Also 
colors in bash are set by ANSI escape sequences.

Sorry for maybe stupid questions, but I'm web applications developer not 
system developer. I don't know how that things work.


> I don't see the behavior that you are specifying but I doubt that what
> you are seeing has anything to do with the gobbledegook on the above
> page.  If you do want "Cygwin" to send ANSI escape sequences then you'll
> need to make sure that you're using a package which knows how to send
> them, i.e., an ncurses-using package, and that the TERM environment
> variable is set appropriately.
> 
> cgf

Actually I don't want Cygwin to send ANSI escape sequences, I just would 
like to use Cygwin for doing my job, it's really great, but this screen 
crippling makes it really hard. I'm ready to help as much as I can, but I 
just need your help.

Have a nice day.


-- 
 Dawid Ferenczy
 http://twitter.com/DawidFerenczy



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Re: Screen crippled by applications using alternative screen

[Maximus5]

Christopher Faylor <cgf-use-the-mailinglist-please <at> cygwin.com> writes:

> I don't see the behavior that you are specifying but I doubt that what
> you are seeing has anything to do with the gobbledegook on the above
> page.  If you do want "Cygwin" to send ANSI escape sequences then you'll
> need to make sure that you're using a package which knows how to send
> them, i.e., an ncurses-using package, and that the TERM environment
> variable is set appropriately.

Hi, about gobbledegook

Looking into imports of cygwin's shot.exe I can see "cygncursesw-10.dll".

Does that mean it is "using a package which knows how to send them"?

Checking for environment
$ set | grep TERM
TERM=xterm

Ok?

But sh.exe is using Windows console API instead of writing ANSI to stdout.

What is wrong?

regards


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Re: Screen crippled by applications using alternative screen

[Larry Hall (Cygwin)]

On 05/01/2014 06:13 AM, Maximus5 wrote:
> Christopher Faylor <cgf-use-the-mailinglist-please <at> cygwin.com> writes:
>
>> I don't see the behavior that you are specifying but I doubt that what
>> you are seeing has anything to do with the gobbledegook on the above
>> page.  If you do want "Cygwin" to send ANSI escape sequences then you'll
>> need to make sure that you're using a package which knows how to send
>> them, i.e., an ncurses-using package, and that the TERM environment
>> variable is set appropriately.
>
> Hi, about gobbledegook
>
> Looking into imports of cygwin's shot.exe I can see "cygncursesw-10.dll".
>
> Does that mean it is "using a package which knows how to send them"?
>
> Checking for environment
> $ set | grep TERM
> TERM=xterm
>
> Ok?
>
> But sh.exe is using Windows console API instead of writing ANSI to stdout.
>
> What is wrong?

If you're using the Windows console (cmd.exe, Console2, ConEmu, etc.), then
you're not going to get complete ANSI code support regardless of what you
set your TERM environment variable to.  If you're saying that you're using
mintty or xterm and having problems, then you need to provide a clear recipe
to reproduce the problem so that someone here can try to reproduce it.  For
more details on what's needed, please see the problem reporting guidelines
found at the link below:

<http://cygwin.com/problems.html>

-- 
Larry

_____________________________________________________________________

A: Yes.
 > Q: Are you sure?
 >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation.
 >>> Q: Why is top posting annoying in email?

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Re: Screen crippled by applications using alternative screen

[Christopher Faylor]

On Thu, May 01, 2014 at 06:10:25PM -0400, Larry Hall (Cygwin) wrote:
>On 05/01/2014 06:13 AM, Maximus5 wrote:
>> Christopher Faylor <cgf-use-the-mailinglist-please <at> cygwin.com> writes:
>>
>>> I don't see the behavior that you are specifying but I doubt that what
>>> you are seeing has anything to do with the gobbledegook on the above
>>> page.  If you do want "Cygwin" to send ANSI escape sequences then you'll
>>> need to make sure that you're using a package which knows how to send
>>> them, i.e., an ncurses-using package, and that the TERM environment
>>> variable is set appropriately.
>>
>> Hi, about gobbledegook
>>
>> Looking into imports of cygwin's shot.exe I can see "cygncursesw-10.dll".
>>
>> Does that mean it is "using a package which knows how to send them"?
>>
>> Checking for environment
>> $ set | grep TERM
>> TERM=xterm
>>
>> Ok?
>>
>> But sh.exe is using Windows console API instead of writing ANSI to stdout.
>>
>> What is wrong?
>
>If you're using the Windows console (cmd.exe, Console2, ConEmu, etc.), then
>you're not going to get complete ANSI code support regardless of what you
>set your TERM environment variable to.  If you're saying that you're using
>mintty or xterm and having problems, then you need to provide a clear recipe
>to reproduce the problem so that someone here can try to reproduce it.  For
>more details on what's needed, please see the problem reporting guidelines
>found at the link below:
>
><http://cygwin.com/problems.html>

I think I understand now.  The request if for Cygwin to "do nothing"
when it sees escape sequences since, apparently, ConEmu will handle
escape sequences on its own.  This is not a bug in Cygwin but, a request
for different functionality.  And, on rereading, the web page, I see
that I just wasn't getting what was being requested.  That was because I
was thinking about this from the point of view of someone reporting this
as an apparent long-standing bug in Cygwin when it was nothing of the
sort.

Anyway, gobbledegook label withdrawn.  Sorry.

cgf

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Re: Screen crippled by applications using alternative screen

[Christopher Faylor]

On Fri, May 02, 2014 at 01:33:30AM -0400, Christopher Faylor wrote:
>I think I understand now.  The request if for Cygwin to "do nothing"
>when it sees escape sequences since, apparently, ConEmu will handle
>escape sequences on its own.  This is not a bug in Cygwin but, a request
>for different functionality.  And, on rereading, the web page, I see
>that I just wasn't getting what was being requested.  That was because I
>was thinking about this from the point of view of someone reporting this
>as an apparent long-standing bug in Cygwin when it was nothing of the
>sort.

Oh, and another reason for my reaction was that the web page used the
term "annoying cygwin behavior" when Cygwin is working as designed.

cgf

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Re: Screen crippled by applications using alternative screen

[Maximus5]

Christopher Faylor <cgf-use-the-mailinglist-please <at> cygwin.com> writes:

> 
> On Fri, May 02, 2014 at 01:33:30AM -0400, Christopher Faylor wrote:
> >I think I understand now.  The request if for Cygwin to "do nothing"
> >when it sees escape sequences since, apparently, ConEmu will handle
> >escape sequences on its own.  This is not a bug in Cygwin but, a request
> >for different functionality.  And, on rereading, the web page, I see
> >that I just wasn't getting what was being requested.  That was because I
> >was thinking about this from the point of view of someone reporting this
> >as an apparent long-standing bug in Cygwin when it was nothing of the
> >sort.
> 
> Oh, and another reason for my reaction was that the web page used the
> term "annoying cygwin behavior" when Cygwin is working as designed.

Exactly. May be "annoying" was too emotional, but when I wrote that wiki
I was tired with convincing my reporters that "I can't do anything with that".
Wiki was rewritten a little.

As wiki said, I'm trying to combine cygterm with win32 terminal,
but it is not too easy, because my application compiled with VC,
so it does not link cygwin1.dll statically.
I'm in sort of debugging stage now...

regards




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Re: Screen crippled by applications using alternative screen

[Csaba Raduly]

On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 7:37 AM, Christopher Faylor  wrote:
(snip)>
> Oh, and another reason for my reaction was that the web page used the
> term "annoying cygwin behavior" when Cygwin is working as designed.

One man's "working as designed" is another man's "annoying behavior" :)

Csaba
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Re: Screen crippled by applications using alternative screen

[Houder]

> I'm still having issues with applications which use alternative screen for
> output (LESS, MAN). When I exit that application, its output stays on
> screen, prompt is displayed over it.
>
> My system is as follows:
>
[snip]

> Example steps to reproduce the issue:
>
> 1. execute "man grep"
> 2. scroll down to the end (PAGE DOWN)
> 3. exit (press Q), result: http://ferenczy.cz/tmp/cygwin/1.png
> 4. execute "pwd", result: http://ferenczy.cz/tmp/cygwin/2.png
> 5. clear screen (CTRL + L), result: http://ferenczy.cz/tmp/cygwin/3.png
>
> Behavior is the same in plain cmd.exe, Console2 and ConEmu. MinTTY works
> fine. If I exit MAN on first page (without scrolling), the screen isn't
> crippled.
>
> To reach clean screen I have to repeatedly clear the screen (CTRL + L)
until
> I browse whole MAN output (all pages). ...

Same story here: MinTTY works, Windows Console (cmd.exe): crippled.

My system: XP-sp3, Cygwin: 1.7.29-2 - 32 bits

(behavior Windows Console was not crippled before .28 as far as I can
 remember)




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Re: Screen crippled by applications using alternative screen

[Houder]

Hi David Ferenczy,

>> I'm still having issues with applications which use alternative screen
>> for output (LESS, MAN). When I exit that application, its output stays
>> on screen, prompt is displayed over it.
>
> [snip]
>
>> Example steps to reproduce the issue:
>>
>> 1. execute "man grep"
>> 2. scroll down to the end (PAGE DOWN)
>> 3. exit (press Q), result: http://ferenczy.cz/tmp/cygwin/1.png
>> 4. execute "pwd", result: http://ferenczy.cz/tmp/cygwin/2.png
>> 5. clear screen (CTRL + L), result: http://ferenczy.cz/tmp/cygwin/3.png
>>
>> Behavior is the same in plain cmd.exe, Console2 and ConEmu. MinTTY works
>> fine. If I exit MAN on first page (without scrolling), the screen isn't
>> crippled.
>>
>> To reach clean screen I have to repeatedly clear the screen (CTRL + L)
>> until I browse whole MAN output (all pages). ...
>
> Same story here: MinTTY works, Windows Console (cmd.exe): crippled.
>
> My system: XP-sp3, Cygwin: 1.7.29-2 - 32 bits
>
> (behavior Windows Console was not crippled before .28 as far as I can
>  remember)

Applied snapshot (i.e. replaced cygwin1.dll) generated by cfg (26/4) ...

@@# uname -a
CYGWIN_NT-5.1 xp 1.7.30s(0.272/5/3) 20140426 17:41:38 i686 Cygwin
@@# man grep
@@# man grep
@@# man grep
@@#

As far as I can tell, the problem has been solved.

Pleasantly surprised ... Thank you Christopher.

Henri


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