setup.ini has multiple "prev" entries ... Why?

setup.ini has multiple "prev" entries ... Why?

[Houder]

Hi John (Turney),

After I had downloaded and exercised setup version 2.882, I noticed
that setup.ini has multiple (2?) "prev" entries per package ...

Why? Did I miss one of your announcements mentioning this change?

Regards,

Henri

Announcements (setup):

  - https://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin/2017-05/msg00313.html -- 2.879
  - https://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin/2017-06/msg00166.html -- 2.880
  - https://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin/2017-07/msg00072.html -- 2.881
  - https://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin/2017-10/msg00285.html -- 2.882

Description (specification?) of setup.ini:

  - https://sourceware.org/cygwin-apps/setup.ini.html

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Re: setup.ini has multiple "prev" entries ... Why?

[Vince Rice]

> On Nov 5, 2017, at 6:48 AM, Houder wrote:
> 
> Hi John (Turney),
> 
> After I had downloaded and exercised setup version 2.882, I noticed
> that setup.ini has multiple (2?) "prev" entries per package ...
> 
> Why? Did I miss one of your announcements mentioning this change?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Henri
> 
> Announcements (setup):
> 
> - https://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin/2017-05/msg00313.html -- 2.879
> - https://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin/2017-06/msg00166.html -- 2.880
> - https://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin/2017-07/msg00072.html -- 2.881
> - https://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin/2017-10/msg00285.html -- 2.882
> 
> Description (specification?) of setup.ini:
> 
> - https://sourceware.org/cygwin-apps/setup.ini.html

It's Jon, and yes, you did. I'm on the way out the door, but you can search the archives. The discussion was on apps, IIRC, and was in the last month or two.

Not Jon
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Re: setup.ini has multiple "prev" entries ... Why?

[Houder]

On 2017-11-05 15:03, Vince Rice wrote:

> It's Jon, and yes, you did. I'm on the way out the door, but you can
> search the archives. The discussion was on apps, IIRC, and was in the
> last month or two.

Thank you.

> Not Jon

Sorry about that.

Regards,

Henri

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Re: setup.ini has multiple "prev" entries ... Why?

[Houder]

On 2017-11-05 13:48, Houder wrote:
> Hi John (Turney),
> 
> After I had downloaded and exercised setup version 2.882, I noticed
> that setup.ini has multiple (2?) "prev" entries per package ...
> 
> Why? Did I miss one of your announcements mentioning this change?

See https://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin-apps/2017-11/msg00007.html

where Jon wrote:

> From: Jon Turney <jon dot turney at dronecode dot org dot uk>
> To: cygwin-apps at cygwin dot com
> Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2017 13:38:03 +0000

> I deployed this calm change today.

Being 2 days ago ...

> I think that no-one should notice anything, apart from setup now
> offering another choice of older versions for some packages.

Jon, you would have lost the bet (in case you would have put a bet
on this).

Regards,

Henri

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Re: setup.ini has multiple "prev" entries ... Why?

[Houder]

On 2017-11-05 13:48, Houder wrote:
> Hi John (Turney),
> 
> After I had downloaded and exercised setup version 2.882, I noticed
> that setup.ini has multiple (2?) "prev" entries per package ...
> 
> Why? Did I miss one of your announcements mentioning this change?

Jon,

     https://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin-apps/2017-10/msg00047.html

> Because of the way setup works, the last [test] section is the version 
> which
> is selected when 'test' is selected, so a specific ordering of the 
> sections
>  would be required. ...
> 
> So, for example we could have:
> 
> @ foo
> ...
> version: 250-0
> ...
> [prev]
> version: 241-0
> ...
> [prev]
> version: 243-0
> ...
> [test]
> version: 251-0
> ...
> [test]
> version: 252-0

So ... if I read the above correctly, the "prev" entries can be ordered
arbitrarily with respect to each other (within a package section) ?????

(and basically, the same question with respect to the "test" entries)

Meaning, one has to "interpret" the version id of each "prev" entry,

     in order to be able to establish the _latest_ "prev" entry (i.e. the
     version of the package before the current one) ?

Yes, the "prev" versions in your example are ordered incrementally, I 
can
see that ... (but, it is an example!)

However your message (preceding the example) only specifies an 
additional
requirement with respect to the "test" entries.

Regards,

Henri

Snippet from setup.ini: (where the "test" entries are definitely NOT
  ordered "incrementally")

@ gdb
sdesc: "The GNU Debugger"
ldesc: "The GNU debugger, allows you to debug programs written in C, 
C++,
and other languages, by executing them in a controlled fashion
and printing their data."
category: Devel
requires: cygwin libexpat1 libgcc1 libiconv2 libintl8 liblzma5 
libncursesw10 libreadline7 libstdc++6 python python2 zlib0
version: 7.10.1-1
install: x86_64/release/gdb/gdb-7.10.1-1.tar.xz 2670932 
cd1fa152888faa3e4cb8e1d075604fb2e039d73acdd159d7c9553741fd7710778c742495c93476b234e3386d54bd5bdc5275007290b6eb940d70197feb21b573
source: x86_64/release/gdb/gdb-7.10.1-1-src.tar.xz 18542336 
758428a83148af8425cff2712ac15d842f449d824f0edc9bb8db1d1d84bf963e2f371372d0c645408c202914ffb088a9da32be5a9b62a637a71f2fe9b7d4614f
[test]
version: 7.12.1-1
install: x86_64/release/gdb/gdb-7.12.1-1.tar.xz 2767496 
cf29bd0bb85a40ccb7a0f9fa62037e11c95b5250ec977e8123902793694af1d05e1edcf5b976c50db0fc3bcf77a2089b071f6b0bfdbacb9f64ba170a8ecc7401
source: x86_64/release/gdb/gdb-7.12.1-1-src.tar.xz 19236576 
c7ae16ecbe425cd645197d652d5991d509f5792036d9f138585707f98172ed3403467e0e9e84bc8008ef70b7ff623bb4d2ad74e9a37b1b528171b64689cf2d60
[test]
version: 7.11.1-2
install: x86_64/release/gdb/gdb-7.11.1-2.tar.xz 2671444 
5e812ba3f5e3a0d4241286c273525d4097e3f329f8f7adc9262bc73d272a65d14a816dacb40808b522be32eb4213dd0f2e6c8a178f3d645ec36c1a1d62b44ea4
source: x86_64/release/gdb/gdb-7.11.1-2-src.tar.xz 18961848 
b96f66c384e57172ed86e9078e8c3eb155afafdd9b26c6acb7b0b85c629d2571dde6f9ee6fed213c8b65817070f06f7ec41ad7024c3152a91115966624ca24db
[prev]
version: 7.9.1-1
install: x86_64/release/gdb/gdb-7.9.1-1.tar.xz 2550148 
f62f65865a11757b945f431a3662e16d0357dc9a0cbc720d16f5e99543cd3231f34bacd245daeb113ad38501358d9b1e7d128a1a45871d02c2bfb1c15891fbcb
source: x86_64/release/gdb/gdb-7.9.1-1-src.tar.xz 17888340 
b90d198404a0a16268b443f4a4ec9672dac1d531f3fbda848f807fee7c004f5394e1985253c64ab0cdc2dcf7c088645c60edbf8e9f39dce0f149bce4b11f5085
[test]
version: 7.12.1-2
install: x86_64/release/gdb/gdb-7.12.1-2.tar.xz 2753248 
1b05a98a4435ee98a46d19b0d875f8e43f38fcf3ccf265e1c1e4b2539ee0026ff1ea19f6a20ffd21a2b51942e508114a9650ab15f01fb719fa2995bc233050ef
source: x86_64/release/gdb/gdb-7.12.1-2-src.tar.xz 19238332 
c8b5995246f2a736fa1df76c19c9cc488d2a28f87aea137fab18f5b743a369b4c410c5503dd49cfeb91fb1a64bb7672272d77283800154aa1c321fc932c809fd

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Re: setup.ini has multiple "prev" entries ... Why?

[Houder]

On 2017-11-05 18:32, Houder wrote:
> On 2017-11-05 13:48, Houder wrote:
>> Hi John (Turney),
>> 
>> After I had downloaded and exercised setup version 2.882, I noticed
>> that setup.ini has multiple (2?) "prev" entries per package ...
>> 
>> Why? Did I miss one of your announcements mentioning this change?
> 
> Jon,
> 
>     https://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin-apps/2017-10/msg00047.html
> 
>> Because of the way setup works, the last [test] section is the version 
>> which
>> is selected when 'test' is selected, so a specific ordering of the 
>> sections
>>  would be required. ...

Jon,

Currently, I am only interested in the _specification_ that you have
in mind for setup.ini ...

Regards,

Henri

Another (edited) snippet from setup.ini: (where the latest test entry is
not the last entry (of the "test" entries ?????)

@ xorg-server-common
sdesc: "X.Org X server common data"
ldesc: "X.Org X server common data"
category: X11
requires: dri-drivers perl_base xauth xcursor-themes xkbcomp 
xkeyboard-config
version: 1.19.5-1 <- current
...
[test]
version: 1.19.3-2 <==== latest test?
...
[test]
version: 1.19.3-1
...
[prev]
version: 1.19.2-1
...
[prev]
version: 1.19.1-1
...
[prev]
version: 1.18.4-1
...
[prev]
version: 1.19.4-1 <==== latest prev?
...

@ xorg-server-devel
sdesc: "X.Org SDK for developing drivers and extensions for the Xorg X 
server"
ldesc: "X.Org SDK for developing drivers and extensions for the Xorg X 
server"
category: X11
requires: fontsproto inputproto kbproto libpixman1-devel pkg-config ...
version: 1.19.5-1 <- current
...
[test]
version: 1.19.3-2 <==== latest test?
...
[test]
version: 1.19.3-1
...
[prev]
version: 1.19.2-1
...
[prev]
version: 1.19.1-1
...
[prev]
version: 1.18.4-1
...
[prev]
version: 1.19.4-1 <==== latest prev?
...

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Re: setup.ini has multiple "prev" entries ... Why?

[Jon Turney]

On 05/11/2017 17:32, Houder wrote:
> On 2017-11-05 13:48, Houder wrote:
>> After I had downloaded and exercised setup version 2.882, I noticed
>> that setup.ini has multiple (2?) "prev" entries per package ...
>>
>> Why? Did I miss one of your announcements mentioning this change?
> 
>      https://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin-apps/2017-10/msg00047.html
> 
>> Because of the way setup works, the last [test] section is the version 
>> which
>> is selected when 'test' is selected, so a specific ordering of the 
>> sections
>>  would be required. ...
>>
[...]
> So ... if I read the above correctly, the "prev" entries can be ordered
> arbitrarily with respect to each other (within a package section) ?????
> (and basically, the same question with respect to the "test" entries)

Since [1], there's no way to install a prev version using setup, without 
explicitly selecting which version you want, so the ordering of those 
[prev] versions in setup.ini is relatively unimportant.

[1] https://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin-apps/2011-07/msg00064.html

However, you can tell setup to install "the test version", so we ensure 
that the highest version [test] section is last, to ensure it's the one 
that setup installs.

> Meaning, one has to "interpret" the version id of each "prev" entry,
> in order to be able to establish the _latest_ "prev" entry (i.e. the
> version of the package before the current one) ?

Yes.

(Although due to historical mistakes with version numbers, that ordering 
might be wrong)

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Re: setup.ini has multiple "prev" entries ... Why?

[Jon Turney]

On 05/11/2017 18:04, Houder wrote:
> On 2017-11-05 18:32, Houder wrote:
>> On 2017-11-05 13:48, Houder wrote:
> Currently, I am only interested in the _specification_ that you have
> in mind for setup.ini ...

I try to keep [1] accurate and up-to-date, but the 'specification' is 
really "what setup accepts" :(

Currently, the ordering requirements are:

1) The version to be installed when test versions are selected (the 
highest test, unless one is explicitly specified in override.hint) is 
the last [test] section

2) [curr] is first

But since both these things are to work around historical setup 
limitations, I don't think they merit mention in [1], and might not be 
the case in a future when we no longer care about setup versions old 
enough to need them.

[1] https://sourceware.org/cygwin-apps/setup.ini.html

> Another (edited) snippet from setup.ini: (where the latest test entry is
> not the last entry (of the "test" entries ?????)
> 
> @ xorg-server-common
> sdesc: "X.Org X server common data"
> ldesc: "X.Org X server common data"
> category: X11
> requires: dri-drivers perl_base xauth xcursor-themes xkbcomp 
> xkeyboard-config
> version: 1.19.5-1 <- current
> ...
> [test]
> version: 1.19.3-2 <==== latest test?
> ...
> [test]
> version: 1.19.3-1
> ...

Thanks for pointing this out.  This is due to a 'bug', which caused 
incorrect ordering of test versions lower than curr.

That should be fixed now, but please let me know if you notice any other 
problems.

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Re: setup.ini has multiple "prev" entries ... Why?

[Houder]

On 2017-11-06 15:20, Jon Turney wrote:
[snip]

> Thanks for pointing this out.  This is due to a 'bug', which caused
> incorrect ordering of test versions lower than curr.
> 
> That should be fixed now, but please let me know if you notice any
> other problems.

This is the list that I assembled, based of yesterday's setup.ini

Regards.
Henri

-----
gdb                                      c  t  t  p  t ... correct wrt 
to the most recent test entry
lftp                                     c  t  p
mingw64-i686-binutils                    c  t  p
mingw64-i686-gcc-core                    c  t  p
mingw64-i686-gcc-fortran                 c  t  p
mingw64-i686-gcc-g++                     c  t  p
mingw64-i686-gcc-objc                    c  t  p
mingw64-x86_64-binutils                  c  t  p
mingw64-x86_64-gcc-core                  c  t  p
mingw64-x86_64-gcc-fortran               c  t  p
mingw64-x86_64-gcc-g++                   c  t  p
mingw64-x86_64-gcc-objc                  c  t  p
xorg-server                              c  t  t  p  p  p  p
xorg-server-common                       c  t  t  p  p  p  p
xorg-server-devel                        c  t  t  p  p  p  p
xorg-server-dmx                          c  t  t  p  p  p  p
xorg-server-extra                        c  t  t  p  p  p  p
xwinclip                                 c  t  t  p  p  p  p

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Re: setup.ini has multiple "prev" entries ... Why?

[Houder]

On 2017-11-06 15:20, Jon Turney wrote:
[snip]

> Since [1], there's no way to install a prev version using setup,
> without explicitly selecting which version you want, so the ordering
> of those [prev] versions in setup.ini is relatively unimportant.
> 
> [1] https://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin-apps/2011-07/msg00064.html

True from the perspective of using setup ... yes ... and! as long as
"version" is able to express (and OBEYS) an UNIQUE order (i.e. "A is
more recent than B"), which may fail in practice by chance ...

Otherwise (if there is no unique order), it will be "hard" to provide
an answer to a question, like

     "what is the most recent previous version of this package?",

... even when using setup.

Regards,

Henri

> However, you can tell setup to install "the test version", so we
> ensure that the highest version [test] section is last, to ensure it's
> the one that setup installs.
> 
>> Meaning, one has to "interpret" the version id of each "prev" entry,
>> in order to be able to establish the _latest_ "prev" entry (i.e. the
>> version of the package before the current one) ?
> 
> Yes.
> 
> (Although due to historical mistakes with version numbers, that
> ordering might be wrong)

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Re: setup.ini has multiple "prev" entries ... Why?

[Houder]

On 2017-11-06 15:20, Jon Turney wrote:
[snip]

> I try to keep [1] accurate and up-to-date, but the 'specification' is
> really "what setup accepts" :(
> 
> Currently, the ordering requirements are:
> 
> 1) The version to be installed when test versions are selected (the
> highest test, unless one is explicitly specified in override.hint) is
> the last [test] section
> 
> 2) [curr] is first
> 
> But since both these things are to work around historical setup
> limitations, I don't think they merit mention in [1], and might not be
> the case in a future when we no longer care about setup versions old
> enough to need them.
> 
> [1] https://sourceware.org/cygwin-apps/setup.ini.html

But if the order of the versions is to be based _solely_ on "version",
which until now was merely an identifier (like "aap", "noot", "mies"),
that is without any order, then both semantics and syntax of "version"
must be rigidly defined in [1] ...

... if you want it to be a specification for setup.ini.

Regards,

Henri

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Re: setup.ini has multiple "prev" entries ... Why?

[Jon Turney]

On 06/11/2017 15:35, Houder wrote:
> On 2017-11-06 15:20, Jon Turney wrote:
> [snip]
> 
>> Thanks for pointing this out.  This is due to a 'bug', which caused
>> incorrect ordering of test versions lower than curr.
>>
>> That should be fixed now, but please let me know if you notice any
>> other problems.
> 
> This is the list that I assembled, based of yesterday's setup.ini
[snip]

Yes, this looks like the list of what got changed when I fixed it.

These should be correctly ordered as of setup.ini with setup-timestamp: 
1509977795 or later.


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Re: setup.ini has multiple "prev" entries ... Why?

[Jon Turney]

On 06/11/2017 16:34, Houder wrote:
> On 2017-11-06 15:20, Jon Turney wrote:
> [snip]
> 
>> I try to keep [1] accurate and up-to-date, but the 'specification' is
>> really "what setup accepts" :(
>>
>> Currently, the ordering requirements are:
>>
>> 1) The version to be installed when test versions are selected (the
>> highest test, unless one is explicitly specified in override.hint) is
>> the last [test] section
>>
>> 2) [curr] is first
>>
>> But since both these things are to work around historical setup
>> limitations, I don't think they merit mention in [1], and might not be
>> the case in a future when we no longer care about setup versions old
>> enough to need them.
>>
>> [1] https://sourceware.org/cygwin-apps/setup.ini.html
> 
> But if the order of the versions is to be based _solely_ on "version",
> which until now was merely an identifier (like "aap", "noot", "mies"),

In fact, setup makes some decisions based on label, and some based on 
version ordering, which part of the current mess...

> that is without any order, then both semantics and syntax of "version"
> must be rigidly defined in [1] ...
> 
> ... if you want it to be a specification for setup.ini.

I'm not sure it belongs there, but the ordering is defined (see [2])

[2] https://cygwin.com/packaging-package-files.html#naming

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Re: setup.ini has multiple "prev" entries ... Why?

[Achim Gratz]

Jon Turney writes:
> Since [1], there's no way to install a prev version using setup,
> without explicitly selecting which version you want, so the ordering
> of those [prev] versions in setup.ini is relatively unimportant.

For setup that is true, but linear parsers that can only keep one
version for each section would benefit if the last [prev] section was
the one that immediately precedes [curr].  So it would be helpful if you
could ensure it's done that way and state it in the documentation.


Regards,
Achim.
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Re: setup.ini has multiple "prev" entries ... Why?

[Houder]

On Mon, 06 Nov 2017 19:02:08, Achim Gratz wrote:
> Jon Turney writes:
> > Since [1], there's no way to install a prev version using setup,
> > without explicitly selecting which version you want, so the ordering
> > of those [prev] versions in setup.ini is relatively unimportant.
> 
> For setup that is true, but linear parsers that can only keep one
> version for each section would benefit if the last [prev] section was
> the one that immediately precedes [curr].  So it would be helpful if you
> could ensure it's done that way and state it in the documentation.

Agreed! A linear parser of setup.ini would _definitely_ benefit if

 - the "current" section,
 - the most recent [prev] section, and
 - the most recent [test[ section

would have a "fixed" position relative to the package section. I concur.

Moreover it would make the "version" comparison superfluous in case one
is only interested in the these 3 versions of a package.

Being able to skip the "version" comparison is definitely a plus!

Regards,

Henri


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Re: setup.ini has multiple "prev" entries ... Why?

[Jon Turney]

On 07/11/2017 10:25, Houder wrote:
> On Mon, 06 Nov 2017 19:02:08, Achim Gratz wrote:
>> Jon Turney writes:
>>> Since [1], there's no way to install a prev version using setup,
>>> without explicitly selecting which version you want, so the ordering
>>> of those [prev] versions in setup.ini is relatively unimportant.
>>
>> For setup that is true, but linear parsers that can only keep one
>> version for each section would benefit if the last [prev] section was
>> the one that immediately precedes [curr].  So it would be helpful if you
>> could ensure it's done that way and state it in the documentation.
> 
> Agreed! A linear parser of setup.ini would _definitely_ benefit if
> 
>   - the "current" section,
>   - the most recent [prev] section, and
>   - the most recent [test] section
> 
> would have a "fixed" position relative to the package section. I concur.

I'd much rather put things in version order, but it seems that is 
impossible.

I've added a sentence to the description of setup.ini which documents 
the position of preferred [test] and [prev] sections.

Note that it is 'previous' in the sense of 'version comes before the 
current version', not 'previously was current'.


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