Request update of TCL and expect packages

Request update of TCL and expect packages

[Craig Miller]

Hello Chris Sutcliffe &  Christopher Faylor,

Apparently, I started off on the wrong foot. I apologize to the list.

I respectfully request that the expect and TCL packages in the cygwin
distro be updated. I have the sources I used (earlier) to create
expect version 5.45, and they can be found at:
http://www.makikiweb.com/cygwin/tcl/
http://www.makikiweb.com/cygwin/expect/

Thank you in advance,

Craig...
[author of expect-lite]

--
Problem reports:       http://cygwin.com/problems.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple

Re: Request update of TCL and expect packages

[Chris Sutcliffe]

On 25 October 2011 13:37, Craig Miller wrote:
> Hello Chris Sutcliffe &  Christopher Faylor,

Not sure how I can help with this, TCL and expect are cgf's domain.

Cheers,

Chris

-- 
Chris Sutcliffe
http://emergedesktop.org
http://www.google.com/profiles/ir0nh34d

--
Problem reports:       http://cygwin.com/problems.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple

Re: Request update of TCL and expect packages

[Marco Atzeri]

On 10/26/2011 6:50 PM, Chris Sutcliffe wrote:
> On 25 October 2011 13:37, Craig Miller wrote:
>> Hello Chris Sutcliffe&    Christopher Faylor,
>
> Not sure how I can help with this, TCL and expect are cgf's domain.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Chris
>

After chatting with Craig I dug the archives and
I presume the main issue is how to upgrade tcl/tk
and all the packages that depend froms it
assuming that everything works and nothing is broken.
The problem was already mentioned long time ago

http://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin/2009-09/msg00311.html
http://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin/2009-09/msg00389.html

and it is one of the most recorrent ones.

There are currently 19 packages depending from tcltk,
"brltty" is probably the most sensitive from this point of view.

The separation of insight from gdb seems one of the key step
that cgf is taking to solve this long time problem
http://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin/2011-08/msg00413.html

but I have no idea wich are the other blocking points.

About expect Cgf was looking long time ago a volunteer
http://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin/2008-08/msg00458.html
so this package will likely wait the tcltk upgrade

Regards
Marco

--
Problem reports:       http://cygwin.com/problems.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple

Re: Request update of TCL and expect packages

[Dave]

On 10/26/2011 3:27 PM, Marco Atzeri wrote:
>
> After chatting with Craig I dug the archives and
> I presume the main issue is how to upgrade tcl/tk
> and all the packages that depend froms it
> assuming that everything works and nothing is broken.
> The problem was already mentioned long time ago
>
I hope this isn't a dumb question...

Since TCL is designed to support multiple versions installed 
simultaneously, and there are already quite a few Cygwin packages that 
have dependencies on various versions of libraries, why not have a new 
TCL85 and EXPECT545 packages? Just leave all the other packages that 
depend on TCL8.4 alone? Perhaps Mr. Miller would volunteer to be the 
Cygwin package owner for these two new packages. Even if he were to 
abandon support, the situation would be better since we'd have >much< 
more modern versions of TCL/EXPECT for Cygwin.




--
Problem reports:       http://cygwin.com/problems.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple

Re: Request update of TCL and expect packages

[Craig Miller]

Thank you for the additional information, Marco.

If it is of any assistance to Christopher Faylor, I believe the
tcl/expect and dependent packages have been upgraded on sourceware
<ftp://sourceware.org/pub/cygwinports/portslist.txt>, perhaps the
upgrade will not be that time consuming.

regards,

Craig...

On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 4:27 PM, Marco Atzeri <marco.atzeri@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 10/26/2011 6:50 PM, Chris Sutcliffe wrote:
>>
>> On 25 October 2011 13:37, Craig Miller wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello Chris Sutcliffe&    Christopher Faylor,
>>
>> Not sure how I can help with this, TCL and expect are cgf's domain.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Chris
>>
>
> After chatting with Craig I dug the archives and
> I presume the main issue is how to upgrade tcl/tk
> and all the packages that depend froms it
> assuming that everything works and nothing is broken.
> The problem was already mentioned long time ago
>
> http://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin/2009-09/msg00311.html
> http://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin/2009-09/msg00389.html
>
> and it is one of the most recorrent ones.
>
> There are currently 19 packages depending from tcltk,
> "brltty" is probably the most sensitive from this point of view.
>
> The separation of insight from gdb seems one of the key step
> that cgf is taking to solve this long time problem
> http://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin/2011-08/msg00413.html
>
> but I have no idea wich are the other blocking points.
>
> About expect Cgf was looking long time ago a volunteer
> http://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin/2008-08/msg00458.html
> so this package will likely wait the tcltk upgrade
>
> Regards
> Marco
>
> --
> Problem reports:       http://cygwin.com/problems.html
> FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/
> Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
> Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
>

--
Problem reports:       http://cygwin.com/problems.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple

Re: Request update of TCL and expect packages

[Craig Miller]

Dave,

This sounds like a not unreasonable solution (having 2 sets of
tcl/expect packages). I can see that there might be a confusion factor
for newbies, so it would be good to get a few more opinions.

If it is acceptable, I would happily contribute/maintain the TCL 8.5,
expect 5.45 packages.

regards,

Craig...

On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 11:37 AM, Dave <iamdave@glidefree.com> wrote:
> On 10/26/2011 3:27 PM, Marco Atzeri wrote:
>>
>> After chatting with Craig I dug the archives and
>> I presume the main issue is how to upgrade tcl/tk
>> and all the packages that depend froms it
>> assuming that everything works and nothing is broken.
>> The problem was already mentioned long time ago
>>
> I hope this isn't a dumb question...
>
> Since TCL is designed to support multiple versions installed simultaneously,
> and there are already quite a few Cygwin packages that have dependencies on
> various versions of libraries, why not have a new TCL85 and EXPECT545
> packages? Just leave all the other packages that depend on TCL8.4 alone?
> Perhaps Mr. Miller would volunteer to be the Cygwin package owner for these
> two new packages. Even if he were to abandon support, the situation would be
> better since we'd have >much< more modern versions of TCL/EXPECT for Cygwin.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Problem reports:       http://cygwin.com/problems.html
> FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/
> Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
> Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
>
>

--
Problem reports:       http://cygwin.com/problems.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple

Re: Request update of TCL and expect packages

[Charles Wilson]

Please don't top-post.  Reformatted below.

On 10/27/2011 2:43 PM, Craig Miller wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 11:37 AM, Dave <iamdave@glidefree.com> wrote:
>> I hope this isn't a dumb question...

No, it's not a dumb question, but...

>> Since TCL is designed to support multiple versions installed simultaneously,
>> and there are already quite a few Cygwin packages that have dependencies on
>> various versions of libraries, why not have a new TCL85 and EXPECT545
>> packages? Just leave all the other packages that depend on TCL8.4 alone?
>> Perhaps Mr. Miller would volunteer to be the Cygwin package owner for these
>> two new packages. Even if he were to abandon support, the situation would be
>> better since we'd have >much< more modern versions of TCL/EXPECT for Cygwin.
>
> This sounds like a not unreasonable solution (having 2 sets of
> tcl/expect packages). I can see that there might be a confusion factor
> for newbies, so it would be good to get a few more opinions.

Unfortunately, it's not really possible *right now*.  Maybe, going
forward, future versions of (e.g.) tcl8.6 could co-exist with the new
8.5 ones [1].  The problem IIRC is that until recent versions (which
cygwin-tcltk is /not/), all versions of tcl used the same directory to
store their addons.  This means that (old) tcl would "see" and attempt
to load/use the addons built and configured for (new) tcl.  Ditto tk.
Also, as detailed below [1], even then there are other issues with the
dev files that still aren't fixed in upstream. :-(

To make this work (again IIRC) you'd have to backport the relevant
changes to cygwin's ancient tcltk packages, and then rebuild them, as
well as rebuilding the associated addons so that they go into a
non-conflicting location.  That's a lot of effort. I gave it a shot
several years back -- it kinda sorta worked, but not very well.


Now, if the argument is "but I want a GDI version of tk, and you guys
are switching to X!" (rather than "I simply LOVE ancient and obsolete
technology! tcltk-20080420-1/8.4 forever!!eleventy!11!!") -- then...
One alternative would be to build the entire (new) stack with an
alternate prefix (such as /opt/tk-gdi/), with the appropriate patches so
that tk is pure cygwin + GDI (rather than win32ish + GDI, as the
current, ancient, versions are).

I doubt this would have much chance to be added to the distro, but you
can always set up a repo to share this effort, like Yaakov/cygwin-ports
has done.


[1] But Yaakov's package naming choice won't allow that to work
"smoothly".  Basically, the various elements (tcl, tk, itck, etc) would
each need to be "broken up" into subpackages.  Further, /some/ of those
subpackages would need to have "versioned" names -- like we do for
so-called "dll" packages -- while other subpackages would need, e.g.,
alternatives support for conflicting files (e.g. who provides the
unversioned "wish.exe" or "tclsh.exe"?).

However, lest this be taken as a criticism of Yaakov's packages, the
problem is tcl/tk/etc aren't really *set up* for this sort of thing.
You'd need additional patches so that the "build" headers (currently in
/usr/include/*.h) could be moved to (say, /usr/include/tcl8.5/*.h) --
and tcl itself patched so that add-on builds could "find" them there.

It's really a big mess. I posted an attempt at this several years ago,
but it requires a lot of patching and fiddling -- and really should be
handled by upstream.  It's not something distributors -- like Fedora or
cygwin -- should take on themselves.  Until upstream gets its act
together for co-installs...

--
Chuck

--
Problem reports:       http://cygwin.com/problems.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple

Re: Request update of TCL and expect packages

[Charles Wilson]

On 10/27/2011 4:07 PM, Charles Wilson wrote:
> Please don't top-post.  Reformatted below.

And don't quote people's email address.

> On 10/27/2011 2:43 PM, Craig Miller wrote:
>> On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 11:37 AM, Dave <xxx@yyy.zzz> wrote:

like we both did.  (Sorry, Dave).

--
Chuck

--
Problem reports:       http://cygwin.com/problems.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple

Re: Request update of TCL and expect packages

[Charles Wilson]

On 10/27/2011 2:40 PM, Craig Miller wrote:
> Thank you for the additional information, Marco.
> 
> If it is of any assistance to Christopher Faylor, I believe the
> tcl/expect and dependent packages have been upgraded on sourceware
> <ftp://sourceware.org/pub/cygwinports/portslist.txt>, perhaps the
> upgrade will not be that time consuming.

ATTENTION: Tcl/Tk transition
http://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin-apps/2011-10/msg00083.html

--
Chuck


--
Problem reports:       http://cygwin.com/problems.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple

Re: Request update of TCL and expect packages

[Craig Miller]

On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 2:44 PM, Craig Miller <cvmiller@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 4:11 PM, Charles Wilson
> <> wrote:
>> On 10/27/2011 2:40 PM, Craig Miller wrote:
>>> Thank you for the additional information, Marco.
>>>
>>> If it is of any assistance to Christopher Faylor, I believe the
>>> tcl/expect and dependent packages have been upgraded on sourceware
>>> <ftp://sourceware.org/pub/cygwinports/portslist.txt>, perhaps the
>>> upgrade will not be that time consuming.
>>
>> ATTENTION: Tcl/Tk transition
>> http://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin-apps/2011-10/msg00083.html
>>
>> --
>> Chuck
>>
>>
 Thanks Chuck for the detailed analysis. I look forward to Yaakov's
versions in the main cygwin distro.

 Craig...

--
Problem reports:       http://cygwin.com/problems.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple