install on win7 enterprise, can't modify bash start up shortcut

install on win7 enterprise, can't modify bash start up shortcut

[LMH]

I have just installed 1.7 on win7 enterprise 64 bit and I tried to 
modify the shortcut that starts the bash window and I get a windows 
error message,

"can't modify the shortcut
.
make sure it has not been deleted or renamed"

I currently have cygwin installed at E:/cygwin and I also tried 
"reinstall using the recommended windows settings", as well as 
installing at C:/cygwin. I get the same error every time. I have 
installed on this OS before and I don't remember this issue, so I'm not 
sure what is going on.

Do I need to change permissions on the cygwin folder, the cygwin 
installer, change windows permissions, install it in a different 
location, etc?

I have had non-windows programs on the C drive not be able to write to 
their log files and such,!@#*&^%&, but this was always correctable by 
installing elsewhere.

I have also done, mkpasswd -l > /etc/passwd and mkgroup -l > /etc/group 
if that matters to anyone. This was also an offline install, which I 
have never had any issue with before.

Thanks for the suggestions,

LMH

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Re: install on win7 enterprise, can't modify bash start up shortcut

[Thorsten Kampe]

* LMH (Wed, 17 Aug 2011 21:59:12 -0400)
> I have just installed 1.7 on win7 enterprise 64 bit and I tried to 
> modify the shortcut that starts the bash window and I get a windows 
> error message,
> 
> "can't modify the shortcut
> .
> make sure it has not been deleted or renamed"

Why on earth and in which way would you want to modify a shortcut?? If 
it points to a non-existing target than delete it and re-create 
manually. Or run setup again which should do the same.

Thorsten


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Re: install on win7 enterprise, can't modify bash start up shortcut

[LMH]

Sorry, I didn't reply correctly when I first tired to send this.

This was simply modifying the shortcut that starts the bash window.

If you double click on the Cygwin icon on the desktop, it starts a bash 
shell. If you click on the small Cygwin icon, upper left on the top 
window bar, you can select properties. This gives you a window to modify 
properties of the bash shell window such as the size, font color, font 
size, etc. When you close after your modifications, there was always an 
option to apply the changes to the current window only, or to modify the 
shortcut that started the window.

I have always done this as soon as I installed cygwin. This time, I got 
the aforementioned error message. I am not sure what to do to allow me 
to modify the bash window on a permanent basis. If the shortcut isn't 
there, that would imply that the install may not have gone correctly, 
but I have installed two or three times (in different locations), trying 
to correct this, but the results are the same. I have had other issues 
with win 7 where software could not write to files in their own install 
directories. This seems especially prevalent with apps that don't make 
registry entries. I was wondering if something similar was in play.

The cygwin icon points to Cygwin.bat, so I presume there are some 
arguments in the script that configure the shell. I could try to 
manually edit the .bat, but I'm not sure what I would change to get the 
window modifications I am looking  for.

LMH

Thorsten Kampe wrote:
> * LMH (Wed, 17 Aug 2011 21:59:12 -0400)
>> I have just installed 1.7 on win7 enterprise 64 bit and I tried to
>> modify the shortcut that starts the bash window and I get a windows
>> error message,
>>
>> "can't modify the shortcut
>> .
>> make sure it has not been deleted or renamed"
>
> Why on earth and in which way would you want to modify a shortcut?? If
> it points to a non-existing target than delete it and re-create
> manually. Or run setup again which should do the same.
>
> Thorsten
>
>
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Re: install on win7 enterprise, can't modify bash start up shortcut

[Csaba Raduly]

On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 6:50 PM, LMH  wrote:
>
> If you double click on the Cygwin icon on the desktop, it starts a bash
> shell. If you click on the small Cygwin icon, upper left on the top window
> bar, you can select properties. This gives you a window to modify properties
> of the bash shell window such as the size, font color, font size, etc. When
> you close after your modifications, there was always an option to apply the
> changes to the current window only, or to modify the shortcut that started
> the window.
>
> I have always done this as soon as I installed cygwin.

You know, I used to do this as well until I found out about mintty,
which is a much nicer terminal than the "DOS prompt". Using mintty
would allow you to side-step the problem of not being able to modify
the command prompt. For one thing, mintty can be resized :)

Csaba
-- 
GCS a+ e++ d- C++ ULS$ L+$ !E- W++ P+++$ w++$ tv+ b++ DI D++ 5++
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
Life is complex, with real and imaginary parts.
"Ok, it boots. Which means it must be bug-free and perfect. " -- Linus Torvalds
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Re: install on win7 enterprise, can't modify bash start up shortcut

[LMH]

I've had no issue with re-sizing the bash window in the past and having 
those changes saved to the shortcut, even on win7 ent, so I am concerned 
about the health of the install. The desktop icon points to Cygwin.bat, 
but that doesn't have anything in it about the bash shell. Can someone 
point me to the ini file where the specs of the bash window would be 
recorded? I can check that file on another machine and see if it exists 
on the suspect install and see if I can edit it. That may give a clue as 
to what is amiss.

I don't know anything about mintty and have always used bash. Can I run 
all of my bash commands, or would I be learning a new shell?

LMH



Csaba Raduly wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 6:50 PM, LMH  wrote:
>>
>> If you double click on the Cygwin icon on the desktop, it starts a bash
>> shell. If you click on the small Cygwin icon, upper left on the top window
>> bar, you can select properties. This gives you a window to modify properties
>> of the bash shell window such as the size, font color, font size, etc. When
>> you close after your modifications, there was always an option to apply the
>> changes to the current window only, or to modify the shortcut that started
>> the window.
>>
>> I have always done this as soon as I installed cygwin.
>
> You know, I used to do this as well until I found out about mintty,
> which is a much nicer terminal than the "DOS prompt". Using mintty
> would allow you to side-step the problem of not being able to modify
> the command prompt. For one thing, mintty can be resized :)
>
> Csaba

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Re: install on win7 enterprise, can't modify bash start up shortcut

[Eric Blake]

On 08/19/2011 12:31 PM, LMH wrote:
> I don't know anything about mintty and have always used bash. Can I run
> all of my bash commands, or would I be learning a new shell?

cmd, mintty, rxvt, xterm, and the like are terminals (the gui program 
that displays your tty in a window) - they are useless unless running 
some child program to do I/O in that tty

bash, tcsh, and such are shells (the program that interacts with your 
tty) - they are useless unless some parent program is running a terminal 
for the tty input and output to show up in

You need one program from each set, but changing from cmd to mintty does 
not have to affect your shell - you most likely want to still be using 
bash, so the set of bash commands you run does not change.

-- 
Eric Blake   eblake@redhat.com    +1-801-349-2682
Libvirt virtualization library http://libvirt.org

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Re: install on win7 enterprise, can't modify bash start up shortcut

[Thorsten Kampe]

* LMH (Fri, 19 Aug 2011 12:50:01 -0400)
> If you click on the small Cygwin icon, upper left on the top window
> bar, you can select properties. This gives you a window to modify
> properties of the bash shell window such as the size, font color, font
> size, etc.

You're not modifying the bash shell but the terminal bash is running in.

> I have always done this as soon as I installed cygwin. This time, I
> got the aforementioned error message. I am not sure what to do to
> allow me to modify the bash window on a permanent basis.

Why don't you just run the batch file directly (and not through the 
shortcut) and modify it then?
 
> The cygwin icon points to Cygwin.bat, so I presume there are some
> arguments in the script that configure the shell.

Is there any religious taboo that would prevent you from opening the 
batch script in an editor and see that you're wrong?

> I could try to manually edit the .bat, but I'm not sure what I would
> change to get the window modifications I am looking for.

You are confusing a terminal and the shell it runs in. Actually, it 
would make sense to directly configure the cmd terminal (via "defaults") 
because you probably want the changes in all Windows terminal windows 
(Cmd.exe).

Thorsten


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Re: install on win7 enterprise, can't modify bash start up shortcut

[Thorsten Kampe]

* Thorsten Kampe (Fri, 19 Aug 2011 20:56:49 +0200)
> You are confusing a terminal and the shell it runs in.

I meant "you are confusing a shell and the terminal it runs in".
 
Thorsten


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Re: install on win7 enterprise, can't modify bash start up shortcut

[Csaba Raduly]

On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 8:31 PM, LMH  wrote:

(Please don't top-post)
> I've had no issue with re-sizing the bash window in the past and having
> those changes saved to the shortcut, even on win7 ent, so I am concerned
> about the health of the install.

The health of the Cygwin install should be unrelated. I gues  this is
some Windows-y permission issue.
The shortcut points to cygwin.bat; Windows runs cmd.exe to interpret
the batch file, which eventually starts bash.

>The desktop icon points to Cygwin.bat, but
> that doesn't have anything in it about the bash shell. Can someone point me
> to the ini file where the specs of the bash window would be recorded?

That window belongs to cmd.exe; bash runs inside it. The settings are
in the registry; for the Cygwin shortcut it's

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Console\Cygwin

> I can check that file on another machine and see if it exists on the suspect
> install and see if I can edit it. That may give a clue as to what is amiss.
>
> I don't know anything about mintty and have always used bash. Can I run all
> of my bash commands, or would I be learning a new shell?

You will be running bash inside mintty, just as you are running bash
now inside the window of cmd.exe (except mintty is much nicer for
doing that :).

Hope this helps,
Csaba
-- 
GCS a+ e++ d- C++ ULS$ L+$ !E- W++ P+++$ w++$ tv+ b++ DI D++ 5++
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
Life is complex, with real and imaginary parts.
"Ok, it boots. Which means it must be bug-free and perfect. " -- Linus Torvalds
"People disagree with me. I just ignore them." -- Linus Torvalds

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Re: install on win7 enterprise, can't modify bash start up shortcut

[Corinna Vinschen]

On Aug 19 21:19, Csaba Raduly wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 8:31 PM, LMH  wrote:
> 
> (Please don't top-post)
> > I've had no issue with re-sizing the bash window in the past and having
> > those changes saved to the shortcut, even on win7 ent, so I am concerned
> > about the health of the install.
> 
> The health of the Cygwin install should be unrelated. I gues  this is
> some Windows-y permission issue.
> The shortcut points to cygwin.bat; Windows runs cmd.exe to interpret
> the batch file, which eventually starts bash.
> 
> >The desktop icon points to Cygwin.bat, but
> > that doesn't have anything in it about the bash shell. Can someone point me
> > to the ini file where the specs of the bash window would be recorded?
> 
> That window belongs to cmd.exe;

No, not really.  Cmd is a shell, like bash.  Up to Windows Vista and
Server 2008, the console itself was implemented as just a bunch of
library functions and a shared core in the csrss process.  Start bash
from Explorer, and in Task Manager you will see that no cmd is running.

Starting with Windows 7 and Server 2008 R2, the console window is
implemented as a standalone application called conhost.exe.  So, if you
start bash from explorer in W7, you will not only see bash, but also an
additional conhost process.  So, in a way conhost is the same as mintty,
a terminal emulator, even if not a good one.

Either way, that's a common misunderstanding of the way the Windows
console works.  It was never cmd.  Cmd is and always was only a shell,
just another console application like bash.

I hope it goes without saying why you see a cmd process in task manager
when you started bash via the Cygwin.bat batch file...


Corinna

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Cygwin Project Co-Leader          cygwin AT cygwin DOT com
Red Hat

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Re: install on win7 enterprise, can't modify bash start up shortcut

[LMH]

Thank you for all the clarification on shells and terminals, I have 
always used the terms interchangeably, which I guess was not correct.

A few replies,

 > Is there any religious taboo that would prevent you from opening the
 > batch script in an editor and see that you're wrong?

No, I did this on my XP cygwin install, and there is clearly nothing 
there to indicate the windows size, nor was there anything in the bashrc 
files, so I didn't know where to look next. I suppose I need to look at 
ini files for the terminal that gets started.

 > That window belongs to cmd.exe; bash runs inside it. The settings are
 > in the registry; for the Cygwin shortcut it's

This would imply that I'm trying to change a registry setting related to 
cmd.exe and the OS isn't letting me. The confusing thing is that I have 
done this before on the exact same OS and not had this issue.

Just for giggles, I tried to change the terminal settings for my windows 
command line shortcut. I did not get the same error, but I did notice 
that there was a menu entry called "Defaults" as well as "Properties". 
This gives the same options, but this time when I save them there is no 
error. Changing the defaults changes the window options for both the 
bash shortcut and the windows cmd shortcut (I have both on my desktop).

So I guess this is resolved, but I suppose I should look in to running 
the mintty terminal. What are the basic advantages of this compared to 
running in cmd?

LMH



Corinna Vinschen wrote:
> On Aug 19 21:19, Csaba Raduly wrote:
>> On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 8:31 PM, LMH  wrote:
>>
>> (Please don't top-post)
>>> I've had no issue with re-sizing the bash window in the past and having
>>> those changes saved to the shortcut, even on win7 ent, so I am concerned
>>> about the health of the install.
>>
>> The health of the Cygwin install should be unrelated. I gues  this is
>> some Windows-y permission issue.
>> The shortcut points to cygwin.bat; Windows runs cmd.exe to interpret
>> the batch file, which eventually starts bash.
>>
>>> The desktop icon points to Cygwin.bat, but
>>> that doesn't have anything in it about the bash shell. Can someone point me
>>> to the ini file where the specs of the bash window would be recorded?
>>
>> That window belongs to cmd.exe;
>
> No, not really.  Cmd is a shell, like bash.  Up to Windows Vista and
> Server 2008, the console itself was implemented as just a bunch of
> library functions and a shared core in the csrss process.  Start bash
> from Explorer, and in Task Manager you will see that no cmd is running.
>
> Starting with Windows 7 and Server 2008 R2, the console window is
> implemented as a standalone application called conhost.exe.  So, if you
> start bash from explorer in W7, you will not only see bash, but also an
> additional conhost process.  So, in a way conhost is the same as mintty,
> a terminal emulator, even if not a good one.
>
> Either way, that's a common misunderstanding of the way the Windows
> console works.  It was never cmd.  Cmd is and always was only a shell,
> just another console application like bash.
>
> I hope it goes without saying why you see a cmd process in task manager
> when you started bash via the Cygwin.bat batch file...
>
>
> Corinna
>

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Re: install on win7 enterprise, can't modify bash start up shortcut

[Csaba Raduly]

2011/8/20 LMH wrote:
> So I guess this is resolved, but I suppose I should look in to running the
> mintty terminal. What are the basic advantages of this compared to running
> in cmd?

* Resizable
* Easier copy & paste (and consistent with xterm etc.)
* Much wider font selection

Csaba
-- 
GCS a+ e++ d- C++ ULS$ L+$ !E- W++ P+++$ w++$ tv+ b++ DI D++ 5++
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
Life is complex, with real and imaginary parts.
"Ok, it boots. Which means it must be bug-free and perfect. " -- Linus Torvalds
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Re: install on win7 enterprise, can't modify bash start up shortcut

[LMH]

Well key shortcut copy and past would be very nice. How do I go about 
setting up bash to run with the mintty terminal and not cmd? Can you 
link me to something?

LMH


Csaba Raduly wrote:
> 2011/8/20 LMH wrote:
>> So I guess this is resolved, but I suppose I should look in to running the
>> mintty terminal. What are the basic advantages of this compared to running
>> in cmd?
>
> * Resizable
> * Easier copy&  paste (and consistent with xterm etc.)
> * Much wider font selection
>
> Csaba

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Re: install on win7 enterprise, can't modify bash start up shortcut

[Csaba Raduly]

On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 7:10 PM, LMH  wrote:
> Well key shortcut copy and past would be very nice. How do I go about
> setting up bash to run with the mintty terminal and not cmd? Can you link me
> to something?

I have a shortcut with the following target, on my desktop:

C:\cygwin\bin\mintty.exe -h error /usr/bin/bash --login

If you install the mintty package with Cygwin setup, it will create a
mintty shortcut under Start Menu/Programs/Cygwin

Csaba
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GCS a+ e++ d- C++ ULS$ L+$ !E- W++ P+++$ w++$ tv+ b++ DI D++ 5++
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Life is complex, with real and imaginary parts.
"Ok, it boots. Which means it must be bug-free and perfect. " -- Linus Torvalds
"People disagree with me. I just ignore them." -- Linus Torvalds

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Re: install on win7 enterprise, can't modify bash start up shortcut

[Christopher Faylor]

On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 07:48:50PM +0200, Csaba Raduly wrote:
>On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 7:10 PM, LMH  wrote:
>> Well key shortcut copy and past would be very nice. How do I go about
>> setting up bash to run with the mintty terminal and not cmd? Can you link me
>> to something?
>
>I have a shortcut with the following target, on my desktop:
>
>C:\cygwin\bin\mintty.exe -h error /usr/bin/bash --login
>
>If you install the mintty package with Cygwin setup, it will create a
>mintty shortcut under Start Menu/Programs/Cygwin

I must be missing something.  Why would mintty ever use "cmd"?

cgf

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Re: install on win7 enterprise, can't modify bash start up shortcut

[Csaba Raduly]

On Sun, Aug 21, 2011 at 7:49 AM, Christopher Faylor  wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 07:48:50PM +0200, Csaba Raduly wrote:
>>On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 7:10 PM, LMH  wrote:
>>> Well key shortcut copy and past would be very nice. How do I go about
>>> setting up bash to run with the mintty terminal and not cmd? Can you link me
>>> to something?
>>
>>I have a shortcut with the following target, on my desktop:
>>
>>C:\cygwin\bin\mintty.exe -h error /usr/bin/bash --login
>>
>>If you install the mintty package with Cygwin setup, it will create a
>>mintty shortcut under Start Menu/Programs/Cygwin
>
> I must be missing something.  Why would mintty ever use "cmd"?

He meant the csrss/conhost window, usually associated with cmd.exe

Csaba
-- 
GCS a+ e++ d- C++ ULS$ L+$ !E- W++ P+++$ w++$ tv+ b++ DI D++ 5++
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
Life is complex, with real and imaginary parts.
"Ok, it boots. Which means it must be bug-free and perfect. " -- Linus Torvalds
"People disagree with me. I just ignore them." -- Linus Torvalds

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