Password prompts for remote system echoing and not attaching

Password prompts for remote system echoing and not attaching

[Mike Casile]

New install of latest cygwin (CYGWIN_NT-6.1-WOW64 1.7.16(0.262/5/3) 2012-07-20
22:55) on a new Windows 7 system. When I do ftp <host>  it prompts for uid, then
prompts for pw (normal).  Problem is, password echoes on the screen ... and then
it hangs and connection is never made.  If I do ftp -s:<script> <host> ... and
the script starts with uid/pw ... it all runs fine. Same with pscp.  With putty,
no problem because putty gets control and prompts for uid/pw itself.  I am
thinking this is a config fat-finger on my part ... but I am out of my depth.


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Re: Password prompts for remote system echoing and not attaching

[Larry Hall (Cygwin)]

On 8/29/2012 12:58 PM, Mike Casile wrote:
> New install of latest cygwin (CYGWIN_NT-6.1-WOW64 1.7.16(0.262/5/3) 2012-07-20
> 22:55) on a new Windows 7 system. When I do ftp <host>  it prompts for uid, then
> prompts for pw (normal).  Problem is, password echoes on the screen ... and then
> it hangs and connection is never made.  If I do ftp -s:<script> <host> ... and
> the script starts with uid/pw ... it all runs fine. Same with pscp.  With putty,
> no problem because putty gets control and prompts for uid/pw itself.  I am
> thinking this is a config fat-finger on my part ... but I am out of my depth.

You have two alternatives here:

   1. Install the inetutils package so you're using the Cygwin FTP client
      (or pick an alternative Cygwin package offering your favorite FTP
       client).

   2. Continue to use the Windows FTP client but only do so from a shell
      prompt started from cmd.exe (i.e. no Mintty, xterm, etc).

-- 
Larry

_____________________________________________________________________

A: Yes.
 > Q: Are you sure?
 >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation.
 >>> Q: Why is top posting annoying in email?

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Re: Password prompts for remote system echoing and not attaching

[Andy Koppe]

On 29 August 2012 19:02, Larry Hall (Cygwin) wrote:
> On 8/29/2012 12:58 PM, Mike Casile wrote:
>>
>> New install of latest cygwin (CYGWIN_NT-6.1-WOW64 1.7.16(0.262/5/3)
>> 2012-07-20
>> 22:55) on a new Windows 7 system. When I do ftp <host>  it prompts for
>> uid, then
>> prompts for pw (normal).  Problem is, password echoes on the screen ...
>> and then
>> it hangs and connection is never made.  If I do ftp -s:<script> <host> ...
>> and
>> the script starts with uid/pw ... it all runs fine. Same with pscp.  With
>> putty,
>> no problem because putty gets control and prompts for uid/pw itself.  I am
>> thinking this is a config fat-finger on my part ... but I am out of my
>> depth.
>
>
> You have two alternatives here:
>
>   1. Install the inetutils package so you're using the Cygwin FTP client
>      (or pick an alternative Cygwin package offering your favorite FTP
>       client).
>
>   2. Continue to use the Windows FTP client but only do so from a shell
>      prompt started from cmd.exe (i.e. no Mintty, xterm, etc).

Again: cmd.exe and console windows are different things. Invoking
bash.exe (or tcsh.exe, or zsh.exe, or ...) directly from an Explorer
shortcut or the Run dialog or whatever will work just fine, with
Windows automatically creating a console window for it. No cmd.exe
needed there.

Andy

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Re: Password prompts for remote system echoing and not attaching

[Earnie Boyd]

On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 2:37 PM, Andy Koppe wrote:
> On 29 August 2012 19:02, Larry Hall (Cygwin) wrote:
>> On 8/29/2012 12:58 PM, Mike Casile wrote:
>>>
>>> New install of latest cygwin (CYGWIN_NT-6.1-WOW64 1.7.16(0.262/5/3)
>>> 2012-07-20
>>> 22:55) on a new Windows 7 system. When I do ftp <host>  it prompts for
>>> uid, then
>>> prompts for pw (normal).  Problem is, password echoes on the screen ...
>>> and then
>>> it hangs and connection is never made.  If I do ftp -s:<script> <host> ...
>>> and
>>> the script starts with uid/pw ... it all runs fine. Same with pscp.  With
>>> putty,
>>> no problem because putty gets control and prompts for uid/pw itself.  I am
>>> thinking this is a config fat-finger on my part ... but I am out of my
>>> depth.
>>
>>
>> You have two alternatives here:
>>
>>   1. Install the inetutils package so you're using the Cygwin FTP client
>>      (or pick an alternative Cygwin package offering your favorite FTP
>>       client).
>>
>>   2. Continue to use the Windows FTP client but only do so from a shell
>>      prompt started from cmd.exe (i.e. no Mintty, xterm, etc).
>
> Again: cmd.exe and console windows are different things. Invoking
> bash.exe (or tcsh.exe, or zsh.exe, or ...) directly from an Explorer
> shortcut or the Run dialog or whatever will work just fine, with
> Windows automatically creating a console window for it. No cmd.exe
> needed there.

Right, the issue is the PTY emulation issue that no one can do
anything about.  The Cygwin dependent terminal programs like mintty
and rxvt cause the issue because of the buffering used in the pipes
opened to native program.  The native programs do not flush properly
the I/O and thus you get garbage.  So therefore a native terminal
(a.k.a. console window) works because the buffering doesn't occur.

-- 
Earnie
-- https://sites.google.com/site/earnieboyd

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Re: Password prompts for remote system echoing and not attaching

[Larry Hall (Cygwin)]

On 8/29/2012 2:48 PM, Earnie Boyd wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 2:37 PM, Andy Koppe wrote:
>> On 29 August 2012 19:02, Larry Hall (Cygwin) wrote:
>>> On 8/29/2012 12:58 PM, Mike Casile wrote:
>>>>
>>>> New install of latest cygwin (CYGWIN_NT-6.1-WOW64 1.7.16(0.262/5/3)
>>>> 2012-07-20
>>>> 22:55) on a new Windows 7 system. When I do ftp <host>  it prompts for
>>>> uid, then
>>>> prompts for pw (normal).  Problem is, password echoes on the screen ...
>>>> and then
>>>> it hangs and connection is never made.  If I do ftp -s:<script> <host> ...
>>>> and
>>>> the script starts with uid/pw ... it all runs fine. Same with pscp.  With
>>>> putty,
>>>> no problem because putty gets control and prompts for uid/pw itself.  I am
>>>> thinking this is a config fat-finger on my part ... but I am out of my
>>>> depth.
>>>
>>>
>>> You have two alternatives here:
>>>
>>>    1. Install the inetutils package so you're using the Cygwin FTP client
>>>       (or pick an alternative Cygwin package offering your favorite FTP
>>>        client).
>>>
>>>    2. Continue to use the Windows FTP client but only do so from a shell
>>>       prompt started from cmd.exe (i.e. no Mintty, xterm, etc).
>>
>> Again: cmd.exe and console windows are different things. Invoking
>> bash.exe (or tcsh.exe, or zsh.exe, or ...) directly from an Explorer
>> shortcut or the Run dialog or whatever will work just fine, with
>> Windows automatically creating a console window for it. No cmd.exe
>> needed there.
>
> Right, the issue is the PTY emulation issue that no one can do
> anything about.  The Cygwin dependent terminal programs like mintty
> and rxvt cause the issue because of the buffering used in the pipes
> opened to native program.  The native programs do not flush properly
> the I/O and thus you get garbage.  So therefore a native terminal
> (a.k.a. console window) works because the buffering doesn't occur.

Yeah, though buffering isn't the problem here.  It's that the password
is rendered in the clear as you type it by the Windows FTP client if
you run it from a Cygwin terminal.  This is why I suggested *not*
running it from a Cygwin terminal if Mike really wants the Windows
FTP client.  Whether the Windows FTP client is run in a console or
cmd.exe is really, in this case, inconsequential.  Both will work
for the work-flow Mike describes.  The key take-away from the original
post is that the Windows FTP client is being used, not the Cygwin one.
That's why I mentioned using the Cygwin one as another alternative to
avoid the observed behavior of the Windows FTP client with Cygwin
terminals.

-- 
Larry

_____________________________________________________________________

A: Yes.
 > Q: Are you sure?
 >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation.
 >>> Q: Why is top posting annoying in email?

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Re: Password prompts for remote system echoing and not attaching

[Earnie Boyd]

On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 3:38 PM, Larry Hall (Cygwin) wrote:
> On 8/29/2012 2:48 PM, Earnie Boyd wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 2:37 PM, Andy Koppe wrote:
>>>
>>> On 29 August 2012 19:02, Larry Hall (Cygwin) wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 8/29/2012 12:58 PM, Mike Casile wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> New install of latest cygwin (CYGWIN_NT-6.1-WOW64 1.7.16(0.262/5/3)
>>>>> 2012-07-20
>>>>> 22:55) on a new Windows 7 system. When I do ftp <host>  it prompts for
>>>>> uid, then
>>>>> prompts for pw (normal).  Problem is, password echoes on the screen ...
>>>>> and then
>>>>> it hangs and connection is never made.  If I do ftp -s:<script> <host>
>>>>> ...
>>>>> and
>>>>> the script starts with uid/pw ... it all runs fine. Same with pscp.
>>>>> With
>>>>> putty,
>>>>> no problem because putty gets control and prompts for uid/pw itself.  I
>>>>> am
>>>>> thinking this is a config fat-finger on my part ... but I am out of my
>>>>> depth.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You have two alternatives here:
>>>>
>>>>    1. Install the inetutils package so you're using the Cygwin FTP
>>>> client
>>>>       (or pick an alternative Cygwin package offering your favorite FTP
>>>>        client).
>>>>
>>>>    2. Continue to use the Windows FTP client but only do so from a shell
>>>>       prompt started from cmd.exe (i.e. no Mintty, xterm, etc).
>>>
>>>
>>> Again: cmd.exe and console windows are different things. Invoking
>>> bash.exe (or tcsh.exe, or zsh.exe, or ...) directly from an Explorer
>>> shortcut or the Run dialog or whatever will work just fine, with
>>> Windows automatically creating a console window for it. No cmd.exe
>>> needed there.
>>
>>
>> Right, the issue is the PTY emulation issue that no one can do
>> anything about.  The Cygwin dependent terminal programs like mintty
>> and rxvt cause the issue because of the buffering used in the pipes
>> opened to native program.  The native programs do not flush properly
>> the I/O and thus you get garbage.  So therefore a native terminal
>> (a.k.a. console window) works because the buffering doesn't occur.
>
>
> Yeah, though buffering isn't the problem here.

Incorrect, the buffering is the problem

> It's that the password
> is rendered in the clear as you type it by the Windows FTP client if
> you run it from a Cygwin terminal.

The password types in the clear because the Cygwin terminal did not
receive the control characters necessary to not echo the characters
because the sequences for it are stuck in the buffer.

> This is why I suggested *not*
> running it from a Cygwin terminal if Mike really wants the Windows
> FTP client.

Correct you cannot execute the Windows ftp client in a Cygwin
terminal.  The point Andy was making is that the Windows ftp client
works well within a Cygwin shell in a native Windows terminal.

> Whether the Windows FTP client is run in a console or
> cmd.exe is really, in this case, inconsequential.

And here is a confusion.  A console (a.k.a terminal) is that which
displays characters received in some font.  Cmd.exe is the windows
shell that is executed within the terminal (a.k.a. console).  You can
loosely compare cmd.exe to bash.exe, etc.

> Both will work
> for the work-flow Mike describes.  The key take-away from the original
> post is that the Windows FTP client is being used, not the Cygwin one.

Yes, but so what, Mike can use a Cygwin shell for it but not a Cygwin terminal.

> That's why I mentioned using the Cygwin one as another alternative to
> avoid the observed behavior of the Windows FTP client with Cygwin
> terminals.

Yes, if you prefer to use the Cygwin terminal you must use a Cygwin
client.  But you have a choice to use the native terminal with a
Cygwin shell and native ftp client.  You could also do the following
if you prefer the Cygwin terminal but do not want the Cygwin ftp
client.

cmd /c start ftp

Which will open a native terminal with the ftp client waiting for input.

-- 
Earnie
-- https://sites.google.com/site/earnieboyd

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Re: Password prompts for remote system echoing and not attaching

[Mike Casile]

Earnie Boyd <earnie <at> users.sourceforge.net> writes:

Not sure where my first follow-up went .. but by using bash and tweaking the
environment a little, it all works great.  Thanks,  Still a long filename issue
... but that's a different topic.  Thanks for all that replied so quickly and
were patient w/my lack of depth.


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Re: Password prompts for remote system echoing and not attaching

[Andrew DeFaria]

On 8/29/2012 1:12 PM, Earnie Boyd wrote:
> Yes, if you prefer to use the Cygwin terminal you must use a Cygwin
> client.  But you have a choice to use the native terminal with a
> Cygwin shell and native ftp client.  You could also do the following
> if you prefer the Cygwin terminal but do not want the Cygwin ftp
> client.
>
> cmd /c start ftp
>
> Which will open a native terminal with the ftp client waiting for input.
I've been wanting to bring this up for quite some time. I'm well aware 
of the problem with ptys that cause such problems. For example, when in 
a mintty terminal (or after having ssh'ed into Cygwin, etc.) when ptys 
are in use, programs like cleartool (from IBM/Rational Clearcase) and 
even Windows ftp, will not display a prompt and do things like not turn 
off echo properly thus echoing the password in the clear. Try running 
Windows ftp and give it no parms at all. It'll appear to be hung however 
if you type quit and return you get your prompt back.

And nobody really like the dumb windows console window.

But I found a terminal emulator that works well. It's called Console 
<http://sourceforge.net/projects/console/>. It behaves much like mintty, 
doing copy and paste correctly, handling window resizing and even does 
transparency! And in some way this guy (Marko Bozikovic 
http://sourceforge.net/users/bozho) managed to solve the problem of ptys 
(maybe just because he doesn't use them). So if you want a pretty good 
terminal emulator to use instead of mintty that provides similar 
functionality but doesn't have the "pty problem" you might try Console.
-- 
Andrew DeFaria <http://defaria.com>
Why is there only one Monopolies commission?


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Re: Password prompts for remote system echoing and not attaching

[Christopher Faylor]

On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 04:41:38PM -0700, Andrew DeFaria wrote:
>On 8/29/2012 1:12 PM, Earnie Boyd wrote:
>> Yes, if you prefer to use the Cygwin terminal you must use a Cygwin
>> client.  But you have a choice to use the native terminal with a
>> Cygwin shell and native ftp client.  You could also do the following
>> if you prefer the Cygwin terminal but do not want the Cygwin ftp
>> client.
>>
>> cmd /c start ftp
>>
>> Which will open a native terminal with the ftp client waiting for input.
>I've been wanting to bring this up for quite some time. I'm well aware 
>of the problem with ptys that cause such problems. For example, when in 
>a mintty terminal (or after having ssh'ed into Cygwin, etc.) when ptys 
>are in use, programs like cleartool (from IBM/Rational Clearcase) and 
>even Windows ftp, will not display a prompt and do things like not turn 
>off echo properly thus echoing the password in the clear. Try running 
>Windows ftp and give it no parms at all. It'll appear to be hung however 
>if you type quit and return you get your prompt back.
>
>And nobody really like the dumb windows console window.
>
>But I found a terminal emulator that works well. It's called Console 
><http://sourceforge.net/projects/console/>. It behaves much like mintty, 
>doing copy and paste correctly, handling window resizing and even does 
>transparency! And in some way this guy (Marko Bozikovic 
>http://sourceforge.net/users/bozho) managed to solve the problem of ptys 
>(maybe just because he doesn't use them). So if you want a pretty good 
>terminal emulator to use instead of mintty that provides similar 
>functionality but doesn't have the "pty problem" you might try Console.

This emulator has been mentioned several times in the past.  I've
suggested that we could use similar techniques in Cygwin for emulating
ptys.  It's just a lot of work.

cgf

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Re: Password prompts for remote system echoing and not attaching

[Andrew DeFaria]

On 8/29/2012 6:23 PM, Christopher Faylor wrote:
> This emulator has been mentioned several times in the past. I've 
> suggested that we could use similar techniques in Cygwin for emulating 
> ptys. It's just a lot of work.
Ah, OK. I do not read every message on this list so I missed that.

Good to hear it's doable. I hope somebody finds the time.
-- 
Andrew DeFaria <http://defaria.com>
Instead of talking to your plants, if you yelled a them would they still 
grow, only to be troubled and insecure?


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