Re: Request for Redhat-Centric info (For Ed Bailey)

Re: Request for Redhat-Centric info (For Ed Bailey)

[Jorge Godoy]

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Ismael Olea <olea@hispalinux.es> writes:

> 	At HispaFuentes we use too. But jadetex limitations avoid us to print
> using it.
> 
> > But we are using free tools to generate printed books and guides.
> 
> 	Other than jadetex?

Nope. We're using Jadetex.
I've been annoying Sebastian* a lot with that :-))

I've found few undesirable behaviours of it and these were the ones
that I was talking to Camille. I can remember of:

- Titles being orphans at the end of page
- Some problems with figure numbering at the LoF (List of Figures)
- Some problems with hyphenization (although we defined them correctly
  at the Jadetex's config file, some words aren't hyphenated correctly
  even thought they work in LaTeX...)
- Keeping the figure title with the image (we managed that by placing
  the title below the image. Statistically I've found that our
  problems occurred when the title was above the image. This solved the
  problem, since if a wrap occurs, both -- image and title -- go to
  next page)

There are a few minor problems, but I can't remember of them now... I
must look at my checklist. :-)


What limitations did you find that forbid you from using Jadetex to
print? 


* Sebastian Rahtz, the Jadetex maintainer.


Regards,
-- 
Godoy.	<godoy@conectiva.com> 

Departamento de Publicações
Publishing Department                   Conectiva S.A.

Re: Request for Redhat-Centric info (For Ed Bailey)

[Edward C. Bailey]

>>>>> "Tom" == txporter  <txporter@mindspring.com> writes:

Tom> Ed, Since from your recent mail to the list, it appears that RH is
Tom> using Docbook without too much pain, could you detail the current
Tom> RPM's needed to create and process Docbook documents, from SGML to PS,
Tom> PDF, and HTML.

Tom> This is not a request for the "how", just a list of the required
Tom> RPM's, so I can tell if I have everything I need installed.

Dammit -- that's what I got for not lurking... :-)

Well, let's see...  Here's what I'm currently using:

docbook-3.1-4
jade-1.2.1-9
jadetex-2.7-2
psgml-1.0.3-2
sgml-common-0.1-8
stylesheets-1.54.13rh-1

(I've included psgml here just to let people know that, if you want to use
Emacs and psgml-mode, I've had problems using the above RPMs with psgml
versions > 1.0.3, in that it cannot read the pre-parsed DTD it saved.)

I'll also state that we use these tools to produce "give-to-customer"
quality HTML, and "copy-editing" quality Postscript.  For final-quality
print, we use Arbortext's Adept*Publisher software.  So if you do a db2ps
and wonder why your output doesn't look like our manuals, now you'll know
why... :-)

                                Ed
-- 
Ed Bailey        Red Hat, Inc.          http://www.redhat.com/

Request for Redhat-Centric info (For Ed Bailey)

[txporter]

Ed,

Since from your recent mail to the list, it appears that RH is using
Docbook without too much pain, could you detail the current RPM's needed
to create and process Docbook documents, from SGML to PS, PDF, and HTML.

This is not a request for the "how", just a list of the required RPM's, so
I can tell if I have everything I need installed.

Thanks!

Tom Porter                                thomas.porter@ctg.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 
'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will 
the right answers come out?'  I am not able rightly to apprehend the 
kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."

Re: Request for Redhat-Centric info (For Ed Bailey)

[David C. Mason]

"Edward C. Bailey" <ed@redhat.com> writes:

> Given the information you've provided, no... :-) The only problem we had
> (and it was quite some time ago) concerned having both the linuxdoc and
> DocBook DTD installed at the same time.  We found that, at the time, we had
> to nuke the linuxdoc DTD, the DocBook DTD, and then delete the CATALOG file
> before reinstalling DocBook.  At present, I'm running a pretty-much stock
> 6.2 box, and it was plug and chug all the way (modulo the psgml problems I
> mentioned earlier)...

One thing Ed left out is there are a couple of erratas up for two of
the docbook tools packages shipped with RH 6.2 that fix some small
problems (though not the psgml one Ed has).

You can find them at:
http://www.redhat.com/support/errata/RHBA-2000022-02.html


Cheers,

Dave


-- 


David Mason
Red Hat Advanced Development Labs
dcm@redhat.com (919)547-0012 x248

Re: Request for Redhat-Centric info (For Ed Bailey)

[Chuck Mead]

On 7 Jul 2000, Edward C. Bailey spewed into the bitstream:

ECB>>>>>> "Tom" == txporter  <txporter@mindspring.com> writes:
ECB>
ECB>Tom> Ed, Since from your recent mail to the list, it appears that RH is
ECB>Tom> using Docbook without too much pain, could you detail the current
ECB>Tom> RPM's needed to create and process Docbook documents, from SGML to PS,
ECB>Tom> PDF, and HTML.
ECB>
ECB>Tom> This is not a request for the "how", just a list of the required
ECB>Tom> RPM's, so I can tell if I have everything I need installed.
ECB>
ECB>Dammit -- that's what I got for not lurking... :-)
ECB>
ECB>Well, let's see...  Here's what I'm currently using:
ECB>
ECB>docbook-3.1-4
ECB>jade-1.2.1-9
ECB>jadetex-2.7-2
ECB>psgml-1.0.3-2
ECB>sgml-common-0.1-8
ECB>stylesheets-1.54.13rh-1

So... after you installed these what did you have to fix to make db2html work
properly? I've just spent the best part of 6 hours messing about with trying to
get an html doc to build and it is a no go! Clues?

--
Chuck Mead, CTO, LinuxMall.com
csm@LinuxMall.com
GnuPG Public Key Available: http://pgp.ai.mit.edu/

Re: Request for Redhat-Centric info (For Ed Bailey)

[Edward C. Bailey]

>>>>> "Chuck" == Chuck Mead <csm@LinuxMall.com> writes:

Chuck> So... after you installed these what did you have to fix to make
Chuck> db2html work properly?

Nothing...

Chuck> I've just spent the best part of 6 hours messing about with trying
Chuck> to get an html doc to build and it is a no go! Clues?

Given the information you've provided, no... :-) The only problem we had
(and it was quite some time ago) concerned having both the linuxdoc and
DocBook DTD installed at the same time.  We found that, at the time, we had
to nuke the linuxdoc DTD, the DocBook DTD, and then delete the CATALOG file
before reinstalling DocBook.  At present, I'm running a pretty-much stock
6.2 box, and it was plug and chug all the way (modulo the psgml problems I
mentioned earlier)...

                Hope you can get it running,

                            Ed
-- 
Ed Bailey        Red Hat, Inc.          http://www.redhat.com/

Re: Request for Redhat-Centric info (For Ed Bailey)

[Eric Lee Green]

On Fri, 07 Jul 2000, Jorge Godoy wrote:
> "Edward C. Bailey" <ed@redhat.com> writes:
> 
> > docbook-3.1-4
> > jade-1.2.1-9
> > jadetex-2.7-2
> > psgml-1.0.3-2
> > sgml-common-0.1-8
> > stylesheets-1.54.13rh-1

> We're using the same packages at Conectiva.
> But we are using free tools to generate printed books and guides. 

Any secrets to getting an index that doesn't have a bunch of "-999" entries?
Approximately 3/4ths of the entries in my index have the correct page number.
The rest say "-999". This despite the fact that 'jadetex' is not reporting any
unresolved references. 

Of course that doesn't mean anything. If I run Jadetex twice, vs. 4 times, my
table of contents is full of -999 page numbers even though it's not reporting
any unresolved references.

There's some boojums here, but I can't figure it out.

BTW, no matter how many times I run 'jadetex', I still end up with some -999
page numbers in my index... I once ran 'jadetex' a dozen times to see whether
that would help. Nope. Note that I use single-entry (<primary>) indexes, I
don't do double-level indexing (i.e., with <secondary>).... 

example:

man-in-the-middle attacks, 78,84,84
MD5, -999,-999,85,196,197,205
Message Authentication Checksum, -999,-999

Very frustrating. 

Here is the 'index.sgml' section for the above:

<indexentry>
  <primaryie>man-in-the-middle attacks,
    <ulink url="x1374.html#AEN1382" role="AEN1400">DH:</ulink>,
    <ulink url="x1510.html#AEN1627" role="AEN1636">Re-keying a client</ulink>,
    <ulink url="x1638.html" role="AEN1643">Known problems and limitations</ulink>
  </primaryie>
</indexentry>
 
<indexentry>
  <primaryie>MD5,
    <ulink url="x48.html" role="AEN59">Design Philosophy</ulink>,
    <ulink url="x1296.html#AEN1311" role="AEN1361">Standard Headers</ulink>,
    <ulink url="x1638.html" role="AEN1664">Known problems and limitations</ulink>,
    <ulink url="x3876.html#AEN3991" role="AEN3995">Implementation</ulink>,
    <ulink url="x3876.html#AEN4021" role="AEN4025">Implementation</ulink>,
    <ulink url="g4068.html" role="AEN4232">Glossary of Terms</ulink>
  </primaryie>
</indexentry>
 
<indexentry>
  <primaryie>Message Authentication Checksum,
    <ulink url="x2014.html#AEN2042" role="AEN2106">Agent configuration</ulink>,
    <ulink url="x3413.html#AEN3460" role="AEN3473">Packet Format</ulink>
  </primaryie>
</indexentry>                                                                                   

-- 
Eric Lee Green      There is No Conspiracy
eric@badtux.org     http://www.badtux.org  

Re: Request for Redhat-Centric info (For Ed Bailey)

[Jorge Godoy]

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"Edward C. Bailey" <ed@redhat.com> writes:

> docbook-3.1-4
> jade-1.2.1-9
> jadetex-2.7-2
> psgml-1.0.3-2
> sgml-common-0.1-8
> stylesheets-1.54.13rh-1
> 
> (I've included psgml here just to let people know that, if you want to use
> Emacs and psgml-mode, I've had problems using the above RPMs with psgml
> versions > 1.0.3, in that it cannot read the pre-parsed DTD it saved.)
> 
> I'll also state that we use these tools to produce "give-to-customer"
> quality HTML, and "copy-editing" quality Postscript.  For final-quality
> print, we use Arbortext's Adept*Publisher software.  So if you do a db2ps
> and wonder why your output doesn't look like our manuals, now you'll know
> why... :-)

We're using the same packages at Conectiva.
But we are using free tools to generate printed books and guides. 

Our last four books were written in DocBook and formatted with Jade
and a customized version of Norm's stylesheets (1.53 and 1.54). There
was another book but the tool we used wasn't completely free. 

For HTML I'm also using CSS.

I think that these tools are mature to have final-quality
documents. But I agree that there are a few things needed here. 

Camille, from Mandrake, might also have something to say... She was
having some common problems and we were talking in private to find a
way of solving them.


Regards,
-- 
Godoy.	<godoy@conectiva.com> 

Departamento de Publicações
Publishing Department                   Conectiva S.A.

Re: Request for Redhat-Centric info (For Ed Bailey)

[Jorge Godoy]

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Ismael Olea <olea@hispalinux.es> writes:

> 	At HispaFuentes we use too. But jadetex limitations avoid us to print
> using it.
> 
> > But we are using free tools to generate printed books and guides.
> 
> 	Other than jadetex?

Nope. We're using Jadetex.
I've been annoying Sebastian* a lot with that :-))

I've found few undesirable behaviours of it and these were the ones
that I was talking to Camille. I can remember of:

- Titles being orphans at the end of page
- Some problems with figure numbering at the LoF (List of Figures)
- Some problems with hyphenization (although we defined them correctly
  at the Jadetex's config file, some words aren't hyphenated correctly
  even thought they work in LaTeX...)
- Keeping the figure title with the image (we managed that by placing
  the title below the image. Statistically I've found that our
  problems occurred when the title was above the image. This solved the
  problem, since if a wrap occurs, both -- image and title -- go to
  next page)

There are a few minor problems, but I can't remember of them now... I
must look at my checklist. :-)


What limitations did you find that forbid you from using Jadetex to
print? 


* Sebastian Rahtz, the Jadetex maintainer.


Regards,
-- 
Godoy.	<godoy@conectiva.com> 

Departamento de Publicações
Publishing Department                   Conectiva S.A.

Re: Request for Redhat-Centric info (For Ed Bailey)

[Jorge Godoy]

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Eric Lee Green <eric@badtux.org> writes:

> > We're using the same packages at Conectiva.
> > But we are using free tools to generate printed books and guides. 
> 
> Any secrets to getting an index that doesn't have a bunch of "-999" entries?
> Approximately 3/4ths of the entries in my index have the correct page number.
> The rest say "-999". This despite the fact that 'jadetex' is not reporting any
> unresolved references. 

There's one: Jadetex 2.20.

I had this problem and reported it to Jadetex maintainer. After
sending him a copy of my .tex file, he found a bug and solved it. 

I would ask you to update your Jadetex to the one available at:
http://www.tug.org/applications/jadetex/


Regards,
-- 
Godoy.	<godoy@conectiva.com> 

Departamento de Publicações
Publishing Department                   Conectiva S.A.

Re: Request for Redhat-Centric info (For Ed Bailey)

[Ismael Olea]

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Jorge Godoy escribió:

> We're using the same packages at Conectiva.

	At HispaFuentes we use too. But jadetex limitations avoid us to print
using it.

> But we are using free tools to generate printed books and guides.

	Other than jadetex?

-- 

        A.Ismael Olea González

        mailto:olea@hispalinux.es  http://www.hispalinux.es/~olea
        2:345/108.9@fidonet.org
                
        El mundo debe empezar a tener miedo a un planeta DEF

Re: Request for Redhat-Centric info (For Ed Bailey) [NEVERMIND]

[Chuck Mead]

On Sun, 9 Jul 2000, Chuck Mead spewed into the bitstream:

CM>On 7 Jul 2000, Edward C. Bailey spewed into the bitstream:
CM>
CM>ECB>>>>>> "Tom" == txporter  <txporter@mindspring.com> writes:
CM>ECB>
CM>ECB>Tom> Ed, Since from your recent mail to the list, it appears that RH is
CM>ECB>Tom> using Docbook without too much pain, could you detail the current
CM>ECB>Tom> RPM's needed to create and process Docbook documents, from SGML to PS,
CM>ECB>Tom> PDF, and HTML.
CM>ECB>
CM>ECB>Tom> This is not a request for the "how", just a list of the required
CM>ECB>Tom> RPM's, so I can tell if I have everything I need installed.
CM>ECB>
CM>ECB>Dammit -- that's what I got for not lurking... :-)
CM>ECB>
CM>ECB>Well, let's see...  Here's what I'm currently using:
CM>ECB>
CM>ECB>docbook-3.1-4
CM>ECB>jade-1.2.1-9
CM>ECB>jadetex-2.7-2
CM>ECB>psgml-1.0.3-2
CM>ECB>sgml-common-0.1-8
CM>ECB>stylesheets-1.54.13rh-1
CM>
CM>So... after you installed these what did you have to fix to make db2html work
CM>properly? I've just spent the best part of 6 hours messing about with trying to
CM>get an html doc to build and it is a no go! Clues?

Found the problem...

somehow... sgml-tools-1.0.9-5 had gotten installed on my system... probably
while I was mucking around trying to get stuff to work... I removed it along
with everything else and reinstalled only the rpm's you've referenced here and
everything works fine...

FYI... the reason I'm trying to get this going again (Ed... I'll bet you recall
that I did have it going once before :-) is that I'm planning to write a simple
doc describing how to install and use docbook on Linux to create real
documents... I apologize to the sgml gods in advance 'cause I don't know squat
about sgml but I've created quite a few doc's using the docbook tools and
that's what I'm going to talk about! I should have an initial version up in a
few days... when the first draft is ready it will appear at:

http://linuxguru.com/docs/docbook/

BTW... it you check there now you will find the following:

Index of /docs/docbook

   Name                    Last modified       Size  Description


   Parent Directory        09-Jul-2000 10:42      -  
   RPMS/                   09-Jul-2000 11:07      -  
   SRPMS/                  09-Jul-2000 11:07      -  
   sources/                09-Jul-2000 11:06      -  

Where you will find the stuff that Ed has referenced above all in one
place! :-)

--
Chuck Mead, CTO, LinuxMall.com
csm@LinuxMall.com
GnuPG Public Key Available: http://pgp.ai.mit.edu/

Re: Request for Redhat-Centric info (For Ed Bailey) [NEVERMIND]

[Edward C. Bailey]

>>>>> "Chuck" == Chuck Mead <csm@LinuxMall.com> writes:
...
Chuck> Found the problem...

Cool -- glad to hear it...

Chuck> somehow... sgml-tools-1.0.9-5 had gotten installed on my
Chuck> system... probably while I was mucking around trying to get stuff to
Chuck> work... I removed it along with everything else and reinstalled only
Chuck> the rpm's you've referenced here and everything works fine...

Strange; my system has sgml-tools installed, and I didn't have any
problems.  I thought this issue had been resolved...

                            Ed
-- 
Ed Bailey        Red Hat, Inc.          http://www.redhat.com/