RE: [ECOS] EB40A port is done!

RE: [ECOS] EB40A port is done!

[Koeller, T.]

No, it has not, nor has any of my other AT91-related
patches. It seems that currently nobody cares. I'd really
like to know if this is going to change any time soon.
After all, the AT91 is a popular platform and the old 
AT91/EB40 HAL is unsuitable for developing new platform
HALs.

I tried to rename my HAL to something like 'at91-modular'
and install it side-by-side with the old one, but that did
not work, because packages like the flash or serial drivers
still are tied to the old HAL and would need to be modifed
for this to work.

Hey, eCos maintainers, any comments?

tk

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tim Drury [mailto:tdrury@siliconmotorsports.com]
> Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 5:39 AM
> To: ecos-discuss@sources.redhat.com
> Subject: [ECOS] EB40A port is done!
> 
> 
> ...
> Has Thomas Koeller's patches made it into CVS yet?  I need to 
> get a fresh
> copy then isolate my exact changes and remove all my debug code.
> ...
>
> -tim drury
> 
> 
> -- 
> Before posting, please read the FAQ: 
> http://sources.redhat.com/fom/ecos
> and search the list archive: http://sources.redhat.com/ml/ecos-discuss
> 

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RE: [ECOS] EB40A port is done!

[Gary Thomas]

On Tue, 2002-07-16 at 03:30, Koeller, T. wrote:
> No, it has not, nor has any of my other AT91-related
> patches. It seems that currently nobody cares. I'd really
> like to know if this is going to change any time soon.
> After all, the AT91 is a popular platform and the old 
> AT91/EB40 HAL is unsuitable for developing new platform
> HALs.
> 
> I tried to rename my HAL to something like 'at91-modular'
> and install it side-by-side with the old one, but that did
> not work, because packages like the flash or serial drivers
> still are tied to the old HAL and would need to be modifed
> for this to work.
> 
> Hey, eCos maintainers, any comments?
> 

It's not a matter of not caring, but rather of tied hands.
Please be just a bit more patient.

> tk
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Tim Drury [mailto:tdrury@siliconmotorsports.com]
> > Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 5:39 AM
> > To: ecos-discuss@sources.redhat.com
> > Subject: [ECOS] EB40A port is done!
> > 
> > 
> > ...
> > Has Thomas Koeller's patches made it into CVS yet?  I need to 
> > get a fresh
> > copy then isolate my exact changes and remove all my debug code.
> > ...
> >
> > -tim drury
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Before posting, please read the FAQ: 
> > http://sources.redhat.com/fom/ecos
> > and search the list archive: http://sources.redhat.com/ml/ecos-discuss
> > 
> 
> -- 
> Before posting, please read the FAQ: http://sources.redhat.com/fom/ecos
> and search the list archive: http://sources.redhat.com/ml/ecos-discuss



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RE: [ECOS] EB40A port is done!

[Gary Thomas]

On Tue, 2002-07-16 at 03:30, Koeller, T. wrote:
> No, it has not, nor has any of my other AT91-related
> patches. It seems that currently nobody cares. I'd really
> like to know if this is going to change any time soon.
> After all, the AT91 is a popular platform and the old 
> AT91/EB40 HAL is unsuitable for developing new platform
> HALs.
> 
> I tried to rename my HAL to something like 'at91-modular'
> and install it side-by-side with the old one, but that did
> not work, because packages like the flash or serial drivers
> still are tied to the old HAL and would need to be modifed
> for this to work.
> 
> Hey, eCos maintainers, any comments?
> 

BTW, have you filed the copyright release/assignment forms for your
contributions?  At the moment, we can't incorporate anything into
the public repository without them.  For more details see:
    http://sources.redhat.com/fom/ecos?file=47
and for the actual forms:
    http://sources.redhat.com/ecos/assign.html

note: we hope to make some changes in this area to simplify things,
but that is still in the future.

> tk
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Tim Drury [mailto:tdrury@siliconmotorsports.com]
> > Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 5:39 AM
> > To: ecos-discuss@sources.redhat.com
> > Subject: [ECOS] EB40A port is done!
> > 
> > 
> > ...
> > Has Thomas Koeller's patches made it into CVS yet?  I need to 
> > get a fresh
> > copy then isolate my exact changes and remove all my debug code.
> > ...
> >
> > -tim drury
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Before posting, please read the FAQ: 
> > http://sources.redhat.com/fom/ecos
> > and search the list archive: http://sources.redhat.com/ml/ecos-discuss
> > 
> 
> -- 
> Before posting, please read the FAQ: http://sources.redhat.com/fom/ecos
> and search the list archive: http://sources.redhat.com/ml/ecos-discuss



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Re: [ECOS] EB40A port is done!

[Tim Drury]

This is not a suggestion, but just a comment for discussion:

Since Redhat has dropped eCos officially, and the eCos
developers are busy and possibly looking for other jobs,
would it be possible to allow some long-time, trusted
contributors to eCOS CVS commit access?

-tim


On Tuesday 16 July 2002 05:30 am, Koeller, T. wrote:
> No, it has not, nor has any of my other AT91-related
> patches. It seems that currently nobody cares. I'd really
> like to know if this is going to change any time soon.
> After all, the AT91 is a popular platform and the old
> AT91/EB40 HAL is unsuitable for developing new platform
> HALs.
>
> I tried to rename my HAL to something like 'at91-modular'
> and install it side-by-side with the old one, but that did
> not work, because packages like the flash or serial drivers
> still are tied to the old HAL and would need to be modifed
> for this to work.
>
> Hey, eCos maintainers, any comments?
>
> tk
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Tim Drury [mailto:tdrury@siliconmotorsports.com]
> > Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 5:39 AM
> > To: ecos-discuss@sources.redhat.com
> > Subject: [ECOS] EB40A port is done!
> >
> >
> > ...
> > Has Thomas Koeller's patches made it into CVS yet?  I need to
> > get a fresh
> > copy then isolate my exact changes and remove all my debug code.
> > ...
> >
> > -tim drury
> >
> >
> > --
> > Before posting, please read the FAQ:
> > http://sources.redhat.com/fom/ecos
> > and search the list archive: http://sources.redhat.com/ml/ecos-discuss


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RE: [ECOS] EB40A port is done!

[Scott Dattalo]

On 16 Jul 2002, Gary Thomas wrote:

> On Tue, 2002-07-16 at 03:30, Koeller, T. wrote:

<snip>

> > 
> 
> BTW, have you filed the copyright release/assignment forms for your
> contributions?  At the moment, we can't incorporate anything into
> the public repository without them.  For more details see:
>     http://sources.redhat.com/fom/ecos?file=47
> and for the actual forms:
>     http://sources.redhat.com/ecos/assign.html
> 
> note: we hope to make some changes in this area to simplify things,
> but that is still in the future.

Gary,

Not to complain, but now that eCos is GPL'd doesn't this obviate the need 
for any kind of adhoc copyright re-assignment?

Scott


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Re: [ECOS] EB40A port is done!

[Iztok Zupet]

On Wednesday 17 July 2002 10:18, Peter Vandenabeele wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 16, 2002 at 05:50:14PM -0700, David N. Welton wrote:
> > Doug Fraser <dfraser@photuris.com> writes:
> > > Even if you contribute directly to www.gnu.org you need to perform a
> > > copywrite assignment and possibly provide a disclaimer signed by
> > > your employer.
> > >
> > > http://www.gnu.org/prep/maintain_7.html#SEC7
> > >
> > > So, no, simply having GPL'ed the code does not absolve the
> > > maintainer from this responsibility. Having non-assigned copywrites
> > > poisons GPL'ed code.
> >
> > Well, things like Linux are probably defensible, despite having lots
> > of 'poisoned' code.  The bigger problem, maybe, for an organization
> > like GNU, is the possibility of changing the copyright in the future.
>
> David,
> Doug,
>
> With all respect, I believe this to be incorrect.  The fundamental
> "fairness" of GPL consists of the fact that anyone who contributes source
> code to a GPL project, knows exactly what the rules are for that project
> and trusts the symmetry: "If I contribute my source now, others will have
> to contribute it too, later, when they start distributing an executable."
>
> Giving the opportunity to a specific organization to bend the rules at
> a later time (which is of the reasons why a number of organizations that
> manage Open Source projects request Copyright Assignment to them), moves
> that trust from trust in a fixed inalienable license on paper, to trust
> in the future behavior (let alone existence) of that organization.
>
> I believe this is the reason why GPL works: the license (that is
> comprehensible for anyone that takes the time to study it) is implicit
> in the project and is the contract that enforces the fairness and
> symmetry, instead of an organization that could always change its mind.
> (Obviusly, it becomes painfull when Software Patents are used as
> a "Deus ex machina" to overrule that fairness and still limit the
> free use of a piece of GPL code that was submitted earlier in good
> trust by a number of developers.)
>
> Other models with mixed licenses are possible. Typically this is a
> combination of a dual license (TrollTech) or quad license (Mozilla)
> or other special licenses (bitkeeper) with Copyright Assignment to a
> commercial entity. There you want to have a central company pushing a
> project harder (with the cash it gets from selling commercial (non GPL)
> licenses and/or from selling support) than would be the case it it were
> a straight GPL project. May I assume Cygnus/Redhat was the organisation
> pushing eCos in this manner ?
>
> I have the impression this concept (of a mixed license and push by
> a central commercial entity) works in certain cases and is defendable
> if implemented in a "fair" manner, with a correct balance between the
> interests of the Free Software community and of the commercial entity.
>
> One of the elements of such balance seems to me that contributors that
> are not associated with the central, maintaining organization need to
> have the right to set up at any time a separate CVS server where they
> can submit patches and build a forked version, in case they do not agree
> with the policy set forward by the central maintaining organization
> (especially if that organization would request Copyright Assignment as
> a pre-condition for allowing the patch in the central CVS server).
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Peter Vandenabeele
> peter@mind.be

According to my understanding of GPL-ed eCos things look that way:

  If One modifies or adds something to eCos, one must publish the patch or 
addon under the same GPL licence at least on the ecos-patch mailing list if 
not elswhere.

 But if One wants his changes or addons incorporated in the eCos public CVS 
tree, One should and must send the Copyright Assigment.

Regards
iz  

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Re: [ECOS] EB40A port is done!

[Peter Vandenabeele]

On Tue, Jul 16, 2002 at 05:50:14PM -0700, David N. Welton wrote:
> Doug Fraser <dfraser@photuris.com> writes:
> 
> > Even if you contribute directly to www.gnu.org you need to perform a
> > copywrite assignment and possibly provide a disclaimer signed by
> > your employer.
> 
> > http://www.gnu.org/prep/maintain_7.html#SEC7
> 
> > So, no, simply having GPL'ed the code does not absolve the
> > maintainer from this responsibility. Having non-assigned copywrites
> > poisons GPL'ed code.
> 
> Well, things like Linux are probably defensible, despite having lots
> of 'poisoned' code.  The bigger problem, maybe, for an organization
> like GNU, is the possibility of changing the copyright in the future.

David,
Doug,

With all respect, I believe this to be incorrect.  The fundamental 
"fairness" of GPL consists of the fact that anyone who contributes source 
code to a GPL project, knows exactly what the rules are for that project 
and trusts the symmetry: "If I contribute my source now, others will have 
to contribute it too, later, when they start distributing an executable."

Giving the opportunity to a specific organization to bend the rules at
a later time (which is of the reasons why a number of organizations that 
manage Open Source projects request Copyright Assignment to them), moves 
that trust from trust in a fixed inalienable license on paper, to trust 
in the future behavior (let alone existence) of that organization.

I believe this is the reason why GPL works: the license (that is 
comprehensible for anyone that takes the time to study it) is implicit
in the project and is the contract that enforces the fairness and 
symmetry, instead of an organization that could always change its mind.
(Obviusly, it becomes painfull when Software Patents are used as
a "Deus ex machina" to overrule that fairness and still limit the
free use of a piece of GPL code that was submitted earlier in good
trust by a number of developers.)

Other models with mixed licenses are possible. Typically this is a 
combination of a dual license (TrollTech) or quad license (Mozilla) 
or other special licenses (bitkeeper) with Copyright Assignment to a 
commercial entity. There you want to have a central company pushing a 
project harder (with the cash it gets from selling commercial (non GPL) 
licenses and/or from selling support) than would be the case it it were 
a straight GPL project. May I assume Cygnus/Redhat was the organisation 
pushing eCos in this manner ?

I have the impression this concept (of a mixed license and push by
a central commercial entity) works in certain cases and is defendable 
if implemented in a "fair" manner, with a correct balance between the 
interests of the Free Software community and of the commercial entity.

One of the elements of such balance seems to me that contributors that
are not associated with the central, maintaining organization need to
have the right to set up at any time a separate CVS server where they 
can submit patches and build a forked version, in case they do not agree 
with the policy set forward by the central maintaining organization 
(especially if that organization would request Copyright Assignment as 
a pre-condition for allowing the patch in the central CVS server). 

Sincerely,

Peter Vandenabeele
peter@mind.be

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RE: [ECOS] EB40A port is done!

[Koeller, T.]

My understanding always has been that everyone can release
software he/she wrote under the terms of the GPL. If the
author is not legally entitled to do so because a third
party holds any rights to that software, then it is a case
between the author and that third party.

I think I remember having read an article somewhere saying
that an author can, but is not required to, transfer his
copyright to the FSF. The benefit of doing so would be that
if some person infringed on the conditions of the GPL, the
FSF could take steps to protect the GPL.

tk

> -----Original Message-----
> From: davidw@dedasys.com [mailto:davidw@dedasys.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 2:50 AM
> To: Doug Fraser
> Cc: 'Scott Dattalo'; ecos-discuss (E-Mail)
> Subject: Re: [ECOS] EB40A port is done!
> 
> 
> Doug Fraser <dfraser@photuris.com> writes:
> 
> > Even if you contribute directly to www.gnu.org you need to perform a
> > copywrite assignment and possibly provide a disclaimer signed by
> > your employer.
> 
> > http://www.gnu.org/prep/maintain_7.html#SEC7
> 
> > So, no, simply having GPL'ed the code does not absolve the
> > maintainer from this responsibility. Having non-assigned copywrites
> > poisons GPL'ed code.
> 
> Well, things like Linux are probably defensible, despite having lots
> of 'poisoned' code.  The bigger problem, maybe, for an organization
> like GNU, is the possibility of changing the copyright in the future.
> 
> -- 
> David N. Welton
>    Consulting: http://www.dedasys.com/
>      Personal: http://www.dedasys.com/davidw/
> Free Software: http://www.dedasys.com/freesoftware/
>    Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/
> 
> -- 
> Before posting, please read the FAQ: 
> http://sources.redhat.com/fom/ecos
> and search the list archive: http://sources.redhat.com/ml/ecos-discuss
> 

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RE: [ECOS] EB40A port is done!

[Koeller, T.]

But then again I cannot see any reason why a simple
patch to a software component that is already
licensed under the GPL would need a copyright
assignment. I guess there must be other reasons
why no patches are currently accepted. Gary?

tk

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Doug Fraser [mailto:dfraser@photuris.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 9:15 PM
> To: 'Scott Dattalo'
> Cc: ecos-discuss (E-Mail)
> Subject: RE: [ECOS] EB40A port is done!
> 
> 
> Even if you contribute directly to www.gnu.org you need
> to perform a copywrite assignment and possibly provide
> a disclaimer signed by your employer.
> 
> http://www.gnu.org/prep/maintain_7.html#SEC7
> 
> So, no, simply having GPL'ed the code does not absolve the
> maintainer from this responsibility. Having non-assigned
> copywrites poisons GPL'ed code.
> 
> Doug Fraser
>
----------------------------------------------- 
Thomas Koeller, Software Development 

Basler Vision Technologies 
An der Strusbek 60-62 
22926 Ahrensburg 
Germany 

Tel +49 (4102) 463-390 
Fax +49 (4102) 463-46390

mailto:Thomas.Koeller@baslerweb.com 
http://www.baslerweb.com 



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Re: [ECOS] EB40A port is done!

[David N. Welton]

Doug Fraser <dfraser@photuris.com> writes:

> Even if you contribute directly to www.gnu.org you need to perform a
> copywrite assignment and possibly provide a disclaimer signed by
> your employer.

> http://www.gnu.org/prep/maintain_7.html#SEC7

> So, no, simply having GPL'ed the code does not absolve the
> maintainer from this responsibility. Having non-assigned copywrites
> poisons GPL'ed code.

Well, things like Linux are probably defensible, despite having lots
of 'poisoned' code.  The bigger problem, maybe, for an organization
like GNU, is the possibility of changing the copyright in the future.

-- 
David N. Welton
   Consulting: http://www.dedasys.com/
     Personal: http://www.dedasys.com/davidw/
Free Software: http://www.dedasys.com/freesoftware/
   Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/

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Before posting, please read the FAQ: http://sources.redhat.com/fom/ecos
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RE: [ECOS] EB40A port is done!

[Doug Fraser]

Even if you contribute directly to www.gnu.org you need
to perform a copywrite assignment and possibly provide
a disclaimer signed by your employer.

http://www.gnu.org/prep/maintain_7.html#SEC7

So, no, simply having GPL'ed the code does not absolve the
maintainer from this responsibility. Having non-assigned
copywrites poisons GPL'ed code.

Doug Fraser

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Dattalo [mailto:scott@dattalo.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 12:45 PM
> Cc: ecos-discuss (E-Mail)
> Subject: RE: [ECOS] EB40A port is done!
> 
> 
> On 16 Jul 2002, Gary Thomas wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, 2002-07-16 at 03:30, Koeller, T. wrote:
> 
> <snip>
> 
> > > 
> > 
> > BTW, have you filed the copyright release/assignment forms for your
> > contributions?  At the moment, we can't incorporate anything into
> > the public repository without them.  For more details see:
> >     http://sources.redhat.com/fom/ecos?file=47
> > and for the actual forms:
> >     http://sources.redhat.com/ecos/assign.html
> > 
> > note: we hope to make some changes in this area to simplify things,
> > but that is still in the future.
> 
> Gary,
> 
> Not to complain, but now that eCos is GPL'd doesn't this 
> obviate the need 
> for any kind of adhoc copyright re-assignment?
> 
> Scott
> 
> 
> -- 
> Before posting, please read the FAQ: 
> http://sources.redhat.com/fom/ecos
> and search the list archive: http://sources.redhat.com/ml/ecos-discuss
> 

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RE: [ECOS] EB40A port is done!

[Koeller, T.]

Several weeks ago did that for the at91 watchdog driver,
I submitted, but up to now it has not been added to the
eCos code base either.

As for the modular AT91 HAL, no such copyright assignment
should be required. What I did is just a modification of the
existing AT91 HAL (I mostly moved things around) and therefore
the original copyright applies to it. I therefore cannot see
any copyright issues standing in the way of integrating it
into eCos.

tk

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gary Thomas [mailto:gary@chez-thomas.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 2:33 PM
> To: Koeller, T.
> Cc: ecos-discuss (E-Mail)
> Subject: RE: [ECOS] EB40A port is done!
> 
> ...
> 
> BTW, have you filed the copyright release/assignment forms for your
> contributions?  At the moment, we can't incorporate anything into
> the public repository without them.  For more details see:
>     http://sources.redhat.com/fom/ecos?file=47
> and for the actual forms:
>     http://sources.redhat.com/ecos/assign.html
> 
> note: we hope to make some changes in this area to simplify things,
> but that is still in the future.
> 
> ...

----------------------------------------------- 
Thomas Koeller, Software Development 

Basler Vision Technologies 
An der Strusbek 60-62 
22926 Ahrensburg 
Germany 

Tel +49 (4102) 463-390 
Fax +49 (4102) 463-46390

mailto:Thomas.Koeller@baslerweb.com 
http://www.baslerweb.com 



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Re: [ECOS] EB40A port is done!

[Iztok Zupet]

On Monday 15 July 2002 05:38, Tim Drury wrote:
> I've had the RAM version of redboot working for a while, but I just got the
> ROM and ROMRAM versions working tonight.  It's amazing how a 208
> channel, 500 MHz logic analyzer helps when debugging embedded systems
> (thank you ebay).
>
> Has Thomas Koeller's patches made it into CVS yet?  I need to get a fresh
> copy then isolate my exact changes and remove all my debug code.
> I also have a patched version of Jani Monoses' Atmel AT49xxxx flash
> to submit also since Jani's code worked perfectly for the eb40a flash.
> Jani, did you submit your code?
>
> Anyone have tips for the best way to create the diffs?  To be honest
> this will be my first real patch submission - everything else I've
> submitted was usually telling a maintainer what I fixed then they applied
> the patch. For example, which directory should the diffs be created from? 
> The directory of the modified file or the cvs root?
>
> Thanks to Thomas, Jani, Scott, and the ecos folks.  And to ebay for
> my kick butt new (old) logic analyzer.
>
> -tim drury

As for the patch: You must have the original eCos tree somewhere, and a 
modifies tree. It seems the best way to create the diffs from packages 
directory.

 I always do something like that:
>>> cd /YourWorkingTree/ecos/packages
>>>diff -C2 -N -P -r -x '.*' /ecoscvs/orig/ecos/packages . >MyPatch.patch

If your patch is a complicated one change the -C2 diff option to -C5. (That's 
the number of lines of original code included in patch).

Regards
iz

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[ECOS] EB40A port is done!

[Tim Drury]

I've had the RAM version of redboot working for a while, but I just got the
ROM and ROMRAM versions working tonight.  It's amazing how a 208
channel, 500 MHz logic analyzer helps when debugging embedded systems
(thank you ebay).

Has Thomas Koeller's patches made it into CVS yet?  I need to get a fresh
copy then isolate my exact changes and remove all my debug code.
I also have a patched version of Jani Monoses' Atmel AT49xxxx flash
to submit also since Jani's code worked perfectly for the eb40a flash.
Jani, did you submit your code?

Anyone have tips for the best way to create the diffs?  To be honest
this will be my first real patch submission - everything else I've submitted
was usually telling a maintainer what I fixed then they applied the patch.
For example, which directory should the diffs be created from?  The
directory of the modified file or the cvs root?

Thanks to Thomas, Jani, Scott, and the ecos folks.  And to ebay for
my kick butt new (old) logic analyzer.

-tim drury


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