Another copyright issue

Another copyright issue

[Gary Thomas]

As part of one of the ports I've recently done, I had to
add a couple of files which require special consideration.
They are binary data, and only applicable to a particular
device (nonetheless required to build RedBoot on the device
since it needs them to initialize the hardware).

The producer of the files (the hardware manufacturer) has
allowed their use, but they want their copyright on them.
I have amended this to look like this:

//
// Copyright (c) 2003 Intrinsyc Europe Ltd. All rights reserved.
//
// Redistribution and use in source or binary format is allowed
// provided:
//   * This notice must be preserved
//   * The binary data which this file represents may only be 
//     used on a NMI uPCI + uE250 based hardware platform.
//

which I believe preserves their use in the spirit of open source.

Does anyone have a problem with this?

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Gary Thomas                 |
MLB Associates              |  Consulting for the
+1 (970) 229-1963           |    Embedded world
http://www.mlbassoc.com/    |
email: <gary@mlbassoc.com>  |
gpg: http://www.chez-thomas.org/gary/gpg_key.asc
------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Another copyright issue

[Jonathan Larmour]

Gary Thomas wrote:
> As part of one of the ports I've recently done, I had to
> add a couple of files which require special consideration.
> They are binary data, and only applicable to a particular
> device (nonetheless required to build RedBoot on the device
> since it needs them to initialize the hardware).

I'd noticed this, although I hadn't (yet) got round to a detailed going 
through of the patch...

> The producer of the files (the hardware manufacturer) has
> allowed their use, but they want their copyright on them.
> I have amended this to look like this:
> 
> //
> // Copyright (c) 2003 Intrinsyc Europe Ltd. All rights reserved.
> //
> // Redistribution and use in source or binary format is allowed
> // provided:
> //   * This notice must be preserved
> //   * The binary data which this file represents may only be 
> //     used on a NMI uPCI + uE250 based hardware platform.
> 
> which I believe preserves their use in the spirit of open source.
> 
> Does anyone have a problem with this?

Nope - it's almost public domain, and the hardware restriction is a no-op 
for binary data like this IMO!

I am assuming they have given permission for this knowing this text.

Jifl
-- 
eCosCentric    http://www.eCosCentric.com/    The eCos and RedBoot experts
--[ "You can complain because roses have thorns, or you ]--
--[  can rejoice because thorns have roses." -Lincoln   ]-- Opinions==mine

Re: Another copyright issue

[Gary Thomas]

On Wed, 2003-02-26 at 08:21, Jonathan Larmour wrote:
> Gary Thomas wrote:
> > As part of one of the ports I've recently done, I had to
> > add a couple of files which require special consideration.
> > They are binary data, and only applicable to a particular
> > device (nonetheless required to build RedBoot on the device
> > since it needs them to initialize the hardware).
> 
> I'd noticed this, although I hadn't (yet) got round to a detailed going 
> through of the patch...
> 
> > The producer of the files (the hardware manufacturer) has
> > allowed their use, but they want their copyright on them.
> > I have amended this to look like this:
> > 
> > //
> > // Copyright (c) 2003 Intrinsyc Europe Ltd. All rights reserved.
> > //
> > // Redistribution and use in source or binary format is allowed
> > // provided:
> > //   * This notice must be preserved
> > //   * The binary data which this file represents may only be 
> > //     used on a NMI uPCI + uE250 based hardware platform.
> > 
> > which I believe preserves their use in the spirit of open source.
> > 
> > Does anyone have a problem with this?
> 
> Nope - it's almost public domain, and the hardware restriction is a no-op 
> for binary data like this IMO!
> 
> I am assuming they have given permission for this knowing this text.

Yes, they gave me permission to publish the files as such, as long
as their ownership and use was clear.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Gary Thomas                 |
MLB Associates              |  Consulting for the
+1 (970) 229-1963           |    Embedded world
http://www.mlbassoc.com/    |
email: <gary@mlbassoc.com>  |
gpg: http://www.chez-thomas.org/gary/gpg_key.asc
------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Another copyright issue

[Bart Veer]

>>>>> "Gary" == Gary Thomas <gary@mlbassoc.com> writes:

    Gary> As part of one of the ports I've recently done, I had to
    Gary> add a couple of files which require special consideration.
    Gary> They are binary data, and only applicable to a particular
    Gary> device (nonetheless required to build RedBoot on the device
    Gary> since it needs them to initialize the hardware).

    Gary> The producer of the files (the hardware manufacturer) has
    Gary> allowed their use, but they want their copyright on them.
    Gary> I have amended this to look like this:

    Gary> //
    Gary> // Copyright (c) 2003 Intrinsyc Europe Ltd. All rights reserved.
    Gary> //
    Gary> // Redistribution and use in source or binary format is allowed
    Gary> // provided:
    Gary> //   * This notice must be preserved
    Gary> //   * The binary data which this file represents may only be 
    Gary> //     used on a NMI uPCI + uE250 based hardware platform.
    Gary> //

    Gary> which I believe preserves their use in the spirit of open source.

    Gary> Does anyone have a problem with this?

I think we do have to be careful about this sort of thing. We don't
want to get into a situation where people contribute HAL packages
which are just prebuilt binaries, encoded in a big C array or
similar. That sort of thing makes it impossible to customize the HAL
for specific application requirements. The GPL uses the phrase
"the preferred form of the work for making modifications to it", and I
think that is a good standard to work to.

Now, there are certainly cases where you need to feed magic numbers to
hardware or it won't work. I don't have a problem with that, within
reason. In this case uE250_pci_bitstream.h is 389K and
uE250_plx_bitstream.h is 130K. That seems like an awful lot of magic,
more than the rest of the platform HAL. I would certainly like to
understand why the platform needs such a large amount of magic.

Bart

Re: Another copyright issue

[Gary Thomas]

On Wed, 2003-02-26 at 09:02, Bart Veer wrote:
> >>>>> "Gary" == Gary Thomas <gary@mlbassoc.com> writes:
> 
>     Gary> As part of one of the ports I've recently done, I had to
>     Gary> add a couple of files which require special consideration.
>     Gary> They are binary data, and only applicable to a particular
>     Gary> device (nonetheless required to build RedBoot on the device
>     Gary> since it needs them to initialize the hardware).
> 
>     Gary> The producer of the files (the hardware manufacturer) has
>     Gary> allowed their use, but they want their copyright on them.
>     Gary> I have amended this to look like this:
> 
>     Gary> //
>     Gary> // Copyright (c) 2003 Intrinsyc Europe Ltd. All rights reserved.
>     Gary> //
>     Gary> // Redistribution and use in source or binary format is allowed
>     Gary> // provided:
>     Gary> //   * This notice must be preserved
>     Gary> //   * The binary data which this file represents may only be 
>     Gary> //     used on a NMI uPCI + uE250 based hardware platform.
>     Gary> //
> 
>     Gary> which I believe preserves their use in the spirit of open source.
> 
>     Gary> Does anyone have a problem with this?
> 
> I think we do have to be careful about this sort of thing. We don't
> want to get into a situation where people contribute HAL packages
> which are just prebuilt binaries, encoded in a big C array or
> similar. That sort of thing makes it impossible to customize the HAL
> for specific application requirements. The GPL uses the phrase
> "the preferred form of the work for making modifications to it", and I
> think that is a good standard to work to.
> 
> Now, there are certainly cases where you need to feed magic numbers to
> hardware or it won't work. I don't have a problem with that, within
> reason. In this case uE250_pci_bitstream.h is 389K and
> uE250_plx_bitstream.h is 130K. That seems like an awful lot of magic,
> more than the rest of the platform HAL. I would certainly like to
> understand why the platform needs such a large amount of magic.
> 

This system uses FPGA devices for a number of peripherals (the
PCI bus in particular).  The only way to use those devices is
to program them - at boot time - with this data.  The only place
to hold this data on the platform is in the FLASH.  So, the choice
would be to have some very-hard-to-initialize-and-maintain way
to get it into part of the FLASH, or make it be part of RedBoot,
which is what I chose.

n.b. this sort of thing will become more and more popular in
the future.  FPGA and soft-core systems are beginning to be
very common.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Gary Thomas                 |
MLB Associates              |  Consulting for the
+1 (970) 229-1963           |    Embedded world
http://www.mlbassoc.com/    |
email: <gary@mlbassoc.com>  |
gpg: http://www.chez-thomas.org/gary/gpg_key.asc
------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Another copyright issue

[Bart Veer]

>>>>> "Gary" == Gary Thomas <gary@mlbassoc.com> writes:

    <snip>
    Gary> This system uses FPGA devices for a number of peripherals
    Gary> (the PCI bus in particular). The only way to use those
    Gary> devices is to program them - at boot time - with this data.
    Gary> The only place to hold this data on the platform is in the
    Gary> FLASH. So, the choice would be to have some
    Gary> very-hard-to-initialize-and-maintain way to get it into part
    Gary> of the FLASH, or make it be part of RedBoot, which is what I
    Gary> chose.

    Gary> n.b. this sort of thing will become more and more popular in
    Gary> the future.  FPGA and soft-core systems are beginning to be
    Gary> very common.

Understood. Using a couple of 100K of flash for this sort of thing
seems expensive, but maybe with current hardware it has become
economical.

I suspect Stallman would want the VHDL (or whatever) source files
included in the package in addition to the generated bitstreams, but I
consider that unnecessary.

Bart

Re: Another copyright issue

[Jonathan Larmour]

Bart Veer wrote:
>>>>>>"Gary" == Gary Thomas <gary@mlbassoc.com> writes:
> 
> 
>     <snip>
>     Gary> This system uses FPGA devices for a number of peripherals
>     Gary> (the PCI bus in particular). The only way to use those
>     Gary> devices is to program them - at boot time - with this data.
>     Gary> The only place to hold this data on the platform is in the
>     Gary> FLASH. So, the choice would be to have some
>     Gary> very-hard-to-initialize-and-maintain way to get it into part
>     Gary> of the FLASH, or make it be part of RedBoot, which is what I
>     Gary> chose.
> 
>     Gary> n.b. this sort of thing will become more and more popular in
>     Gary> the future.  FPGA and soft-core systems are beginning to be
>     Gary> very common.
> 
> Understood. Using a couple of 100K of flash for this sort of thing
> seems expensive, but maybe with current hardware it has become
> economical.
> 
> I suspect Stallman would want the VHDL (or whatever) source files
> included in the package in addition to the generated bitstreams, but I
> consider that unnecessary.

I don't think so. Firstly, arguably it's a separately linked work anyway - 
it's just data as far as eCos is concerned after all. It's not actually 
linked with eCos as such.

Secondly, the GPL exception we have would exempt it anyway, although if 
you don't believe the first point above applies, then this would render 
this port vanilla GPL incompatible.

Jifl
-- 
eCosCentric    http://www.eCosCentric.com/    The eCos and RedBoot experts
--[ "You can complain because roses have thorns, or you ]--
--[  can rejoice because thorns have roses." -Lincoln   ]-- Opinions==mine