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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: Jakub Jelinek <jakub@redhat.com>
Cc: gabravier@gmail.com, jwakely.gcc@gmail.com, fweimer@redhat.com,
	gcc@gcc.gnu.org, arsen@aarsen.me
Subject: Re: More C type errors by default for GCC 14
Date: Wed, 10 May 2023 19:31:42 +0300	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <83mt2c6tch.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <ZFvALcZrJwDmCmqK@tucnak> (message from Jakub Jelinek on Wed, 10 May 2023 18:02:53 +0200)

> Date: Wed, 10 May 2023 18:02:53 +0200
> From: Jakub Jelinek <jakub@redhat.com>
> Cc: gabravier@gmail.com, jwakely.gcc@gmail.com, fweimer@redhat.com,
>         gcc@gcc.gnu.org, arsen@aarsen.me
> 
> > If some program is plainly invalid, not just because the criteria of
> > validity have shifted, then yes, such a program should be rejected.
> 
> Many of the accepts-invalid cases are when something used to be valid in some
> older standard and is not valid in a newer standard, often even changes
> meaning completely in even newer standard.
> Examples include e.g. the auto keyword, which means something completely
> different in C++11 and later than what it meant in C++98, or say comma in
> array reference in C++17 vs. C++20 vs. C++23 (a[1, 2] is the same as a[(1, 2)]
> in C++17, got deprecated in C++20 and is ill-formed or changed meaning
> in C++23 (multi-dimensional array operator).
> Or any time something that wasn't a keyword in older standard version
> and is a keyword in a newer standard.
> alignas/alignof/nullptr/static_assert/thread_local in C++11 and C23,
> char16_t/char32_t/constexpr/decltype/noexcept in C++11,
> constinit/consteval in C++20,
> bool/false/true/typeof_unqual in C23.
> 
> int bool = 1;
> is completely valid C17 if one doesn't include <stdbool.h> header,
> or
> int static_assert = 2;
> valid C17 if one doesn't include <assert.h>
> etc.  These used to compile and will no any longer wheen using -std=c2x or
> in a few years when -std=gnu23 becomes the default will not compile by
> default, even when it used to be valid C17.

The examples you gave are the ones I could accept as "good reasons"
for breaking backward compatibility.  That's because breaking that is
unavoidable if GCC wants to support the newer standard.

That is not the case we are discussing, AFAIU.  Or at least no one has
yet explained why accepting those old K&R programs will adversely
affect the ability of GCC to compile C2x programs.


  reply	other threads:[~2023-05-10 16:30 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 246+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2023-05-09 12:15 Florian Weimer
2023-05-09 14:16 ` Dave Blanchard
2023-05-09 15:03 ` David Edelsohn
2023-05-09 15:07   ` Sam James
2023-05-09 15:35     ` Dave Blanchard
2023-05-09 15:58       ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-09 16:26       ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-05-09 15:14   ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-09 15:22     ` Dave Blanchard
2023-05-09 16:38       ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-05-09 16:57         ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-09 17:05           ` Sam James
2023-05-09 18:55             ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-09 17:15           ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-09 19:04             ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-09 19:07               ` Jakub Jelinek
2023-05-09 19:22                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-09 20:13                   ` David Edelsohn
2023-05-09 20:21                     ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-05-10  2:38                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-10  8:36                         ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-05-10 11:52                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-10 11:56                             ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-10 12:25                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-10 12:30                                 ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-10 12:44                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-15 12:28                         ` Richard Earnshaw (lists)
2023-05-15 20:17                           ` Eric Gallager
2023-05-16  7:05                             ` Florian Weimer
2023-05-16 15:56                               ` Jason Merrill
2023-05-09 20:40                     ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-09 22:27                       ` David Edelsohn
2023-05-09 22:37                         ` Joel Sherrill
2023-05-09 22:45                           ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-10 10:40                             ` Eric Gallager
2023-05-10 10:45                               ` Sam James
2023-05-10 10:56                                 ` Neal Gompa
2023-05-10 12:06                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-10 12:10                                     ` Neal Gompa
2023-05-10 12:41                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-10 10:48                               ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-10 10:51                                 ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-10 12:00                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-10 12:42                                 ` Sam James
2023-05-10 15:10                             ` Joel Sherrill
2023-05-10 15:14                               ` Jakub Jelinek
2023-05-10 16:36                                 ` Joel Sherrill
2023-05-10 16:44                                   ` Jakub Jelinek
2023-05-10 17:05                                   ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-10 18:37                             ` James K. Lowden
2023-05-10 23:26                               ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-11 18:47                                 ` Jason Merrill
2023-05-10 23:33                               ` Sam James
2023-05-11  5:48                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-11  2:28                             ` Po Lu
2023-05-11  2:09                       ` Po Lu
2023-05-11  2:14                         ` Sam James
2023-05-11  2:23                           ` Po Lu
2023-05-11  3:14                             ` Eli Schwartz
2023-05-11  3:56                               ` Po Lu
2023-05-11  4:46                                 ` Eli Schwartz
2023-05-11  4:49                                   ` Eli Schwartz
2023-05-11  6:23                                     ` Po Lu
2023-05-11  6:18                                   ` Po Lu
2023-05-11 22:41                                     ` Eli Schwartz
2023-05-12  2:08                                       ` Po Lu
2023-05-12  3:07                                         ` Eli Schwartz
2023-05-12  5:57                                           ` Po Lu
2023-05-12 11:05                                             ` Gabriel Ravier
2023-05-12 13:53                                               ` Po Lu
2023-05-12 14:03                                                 ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-14 12:35                                                 ` Mark Wielaard
2023-05-12 11:48                                             ` Is the GNUC dialect anything that GCC does when given source code containing UB? (Was: More C type errors by default for GCC 14) Eli Schwartz
2023-05-12 13:07                                               ` Is the GNUC dialect anything that GCC does when given source code containing UB? Po Lu
2023-05-12  6:56                                           ` More C type errors by default for GCC 14 Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-12  7:28                                             ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-12 10:36                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-12 13:19                                               ` Po Lu
2023-05-12 13:25                                                 ` Gabriel Ravier
2023-05-13  0:45                                                   ` Po Lu
2023-05-13  5:30                                                     ` Thomas Koenig
2023-05-13  5:53                                                       ` Po Lu
2023-05-14  5:10                                                         ` Eli Schwartz
2023-05-14  5:38                                                           ` Po Lu
2023-05-14  9:46                                                             ` David Brown
2023-05-14 10:21                                                               ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-14 10:23                                                                 ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-14  5:08                                                     ` Eli Schwartz
2023-05-14  5:28                                                       ` Po Lu
2023-05-14  5:56                                                         ` Eli Schwartz
2023-05-14 11:55                                                           ` Po Lu
2023-05-14 12:22                                                             ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-05-15  1:05                                                               ` Po Lu
2023-05-14  6:03                                                         ` Eli Schwartz
2023-05-14  8:47                                                         ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-14 12:05                                                           ` Po Lu
2023-05-14 12:48                                                             ` Nicholas Vinson
2023-05-14 10:29                                                         ` David Brown
2023-05-12 15:51                                                 ` Jason Merrill
2023-05-17 10:06                                                   ` Florian Weimer
2023-05-12 11:26                                         ` David Brown
2023-05-11  6:24                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-11 22:43                                     ` Eli Schwartz
2023-05-12  2:38                                       ` Po Lu
2023-05-12  2:55                                         ` Jason Merrill
2023-05-12  6:01                                           ` Po Lu
2023-05-12  6:40                                             ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-12 13:23                                               ` Po Lu
2023-05-12 10:49                                             ` Pedro Alves
2023-05-12 13:26                                               ` Po Lu
2023-05-12 11:55                                             ` Eli Schwartz
2023-05-12 13:54                                               ` Po Lu
2023-05-12  6:49                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-12  2:56                                         ` Sam James
2023-05-12  6:03                                           ` Po Lu
2023-05-12  3:06                                         ` Sam James
2023-05-12  6:25                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-12 11:23                                         ` Gabriel Ravier
2023-05-11  6:12                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-11  7:04                                 ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-11 22:30                                 ` Eli Schwartz
2023-05-11 22:35                                   ` Sam James
2023-05-12  2:40                                     ` Po Lu
2023-05-12  2:52                                       ` Sam James
2023-05-12  5:32                                         ` Po Lu
2023-05-12  2:39                                   ` Po Lu
2023-05-12  3:18                                     ` Eli Schwartz
2023-05-12  6:17                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-11  7:59                         ` David Brown
2023-05-09 21:00                     ` Thomas Koenig
2023-05-09 21:17                       ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-05-10 13:57                       ` Florian Weimer
2023-05-10 11:00                     ` David Brown
2023-05-11 10:49                       ` James K. Lowden
2023-05-11  1:38                     ` Po Lu
2023-05-11  1:43                       ` Sam James
2023-05-11  2:20                         ` Po Lu
2023-05-09 20:57                   ` Florian Weimer
2023-05-10  2:33                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-10  8:04                       ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-10  8:46                         ` Richard Biener
2023-05-10 12:26                           ` Florian Weimer
2023-05-10 11:30                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-10 12:03                           ` Jakub Jelinek
2023-05-10 12:36                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-10 12:41                               ` Gabriel Ravier
2023-05-10 14:14                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-10 14:22                                   ` Jakub Jelinek
2023-05-10 15:30                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-10 16:02                                       ` Jakub Jelinek
2023-05-10 16:31                                         ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2023-05-10 16:33                                           ` Richard Biener
2023-05-10 16:57                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-10 17:08                                           ` Joseph Myers
2023-05-10 18:18                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-12 15:02                                             ` Florian Weimer
2023-05-12 17:52                                               ` Florian Weimer
2023-05-12 17:55                                                 ` Gabriel Ravier
2023-05-12 18:00                                                   ` Florian Weimer
2023-05-12 18:08                                                   ` Alexander Monakov
2023-05-12 18:14                                                     ` Florian Weimer
2023-05-15 12:51                                                       ` Michael Matz
2023-05-16  8:55                                                         ` Florian Weimer
2023-05-16 10:39                                                           ` Alexander Monakov
2023-05-16 11:01                                                             ` Jakub Jelinek
2023-05-16 11:09                                                               ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-16 11:15                                                               ` Florian Weimer
2023-05-12 19:44                                               ` Joseph Myers
2023-05-12 20:43                                                 ` Florian Weimer
2023-05-12 20:18                                               ` Jason Merrill
2023-05-12 20:57                                                 ` Florian Weimer
2023-05-12 21:20                                                   ` Sam James
2023-05-12 21:21                                               ` Sam James
2023-05-12 21:37                                                 ` Florian Weimer
2023-05-12 21:47                                                   ` Sam James
2023-05-12 21:59                                                     ` Florian Weimer
2023-05-10 15:58                                   ` David Brown
2023-05-10 16:28                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-11  6:52                                       ` David Brown
2023-05-11  7:39                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-10 14:31                             ` Thomas Koenig
2023-05-10 15:37                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-11  2:38                         ` Po Lu
2023-05-11  7:38                           ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-05-11  8:31                             ` Po Lu
2023-05-11  8:44                               ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-05-11  9:28                                 ` Po Lu
2023-05-11 21:10                                   ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-05-12  1:41                                     ` Po Lu
2023-05-11 10:35                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-11 19:25                                   ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-05-12  2:36                                     ` Po Lu
2023-05-12 12:30                                       ` Gabriel Ravier
2023-05-12 13:56                                         ` Po Lu
2023-05-12  7:53                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-12  8:15                                       ` Jakub Jelinek
2023-05-12 10:40                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-12  8:45                                       ` Christian Groessler
2023-05-12 10:14                                         ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-12  9:11                                       ` Thomas Koenig
2023-05-11  8:53                               ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-11  9:29                                 ` Po Lu
2023-05-10  8:49               ` David Brown
2023-05-10 11:37                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-10 11:49                   ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-10 12:22                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-10 13:30                       ` David Brown
2023-05-10 14:39                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-10 15:21                           ` Paul Koning
2023-05-10 16:20                           ` David Brown
2023-05-10 16:48                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-10 12:32                   ` Sam James
2023-05-10 12:47                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-09 19:33           ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-05-09 15:25     ` David Edelsohn
2023-05-11  1:25     ` Po Lu
2023-05-11  1:30       ` Sam James
2023-05-11  1:33       ` Sam James
2023-05-11  2:18         ` Po Lu
2023-05-11  6:44           ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-11  8:32             ` Po Lu
2023-05-11  8:52               ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-11  7:36       ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-05-11  8:23         ` Po Lu
2023-05-09 18:22   ` Florian Weimer
2023-05-11 21:32     ` Segher Boessenkool
2023-05-09 15:16 ` Richard Biener
2023-05-09 16:05   ` Jakub Jelinek
2023-05-09 16:11     ` Sam James
2023-05-09 16:13     ` David Edelsohn
     [not found]       ` <BBE9950C-28AA-4A1C-A4C5-7F486538004E@gmail.com>
2023-05-09 16:44         ` Florian Weimer
2023-05-09 16:58           ` Ian Lance Taylor
2023-05-09 17:08           ` Jason Merrill
2023-05-09 17:16             ` Sam James
2023-05-09 16:59   ` Florian Weimer
2023-05-09 17:07     ` Sam James
2023-05-09 17:35       ` Florian Weimer
2023-05-11 15:21 ` Peter0x44
2023-05-12  9:33 ` Martin Jambor
2023-05-12 12:30   ` Jakub Jelinek
2023-05-15 12:46     ` Michael Matz
2023-05-15 13:14     ` Richard Earnshaw (lists)
2023-05-10 12:41 Marcin Jaczewski
2023-05-10 14:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-10 13:10 Basile Starynkevitch
2023-05-10 14:20 ` David Brown

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