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From: Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com>
To: Jonathan Wakely <jwakely.gcc@gmail.com>
Cc: Eli Schwartz <eschwartz93@gmail.com>,
	 Gabriel Ravier <gabravier@gmail.com>,
	 Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>,
	 "gcc@gcc.gnu.org" <gcc@gcc.gnu.org>
Subject: Re: More C type errors by default for GCC 14
Date: Sun, 14 May 2023 20:05:24 +0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87mt275da3.fsf@yahoo.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAH6eHdR8C0-i36XKL+7oTT5iaMhYK25qa-gE-194ZhMioemL-A@mail.gmail.com> (Jonathan Wakely's message of "Sun, 14 May 2023 09:47:31 +0100")

Jonathan Wakely <jwakely.gcc@gmail.com> writes:

> Wrong. I wouldn't bother replying to you again in this thread, but I
> feel that as a gcc maintainer I should confirm that Eli S. is right
> here; and nobody else I know agrees with your definition of extension
> as "every non-standard aspect of the compiler's behaviour, whether
> intentional or accidental". That's just silly.

GCC's support for implicit int is clearly intentional.
I never claimed that accidental GNU CC behavior was part of GNU C.

> No, Eli S. is quite right.

[...]

> And when the compiler is wrong and the documentation is correct, the
> compiler is fixed.

And the documentation is wrong, while the translator is correct.

GCC development, being part of the GNU project, is supposed to act in
its interests and that of Free Software in general.  I remind you of of
this statement, which was made here, on this list, by clearer minds:

  We cannot do everything all users want, and sometimes a maintainer has
  to say no to users.  "You cannot please everyone," as the saying goes.
  There are many kinds of reasons which can sometimes be good reasons to
  say no.

  But maintainers should always say no reluctantly--never eagerly.  We
  should never aggressively cause trouble for users today, just because
  someday it might be necessary.  That is like amputating limbs because
  someday they might be crushed.

  This treatment of users brings shame on the GNU Project.  I ask
  everyone therefore not to suggest that we should treat users this way.

And yes, such shameful treatment is directly harmful to the goals of the
GNU Project: at least one organization, likely more, has been forced to
adopt proprietary compilers as a direct result.

  reply	other threads:[~2023-05-14 12:05 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 246+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2023-05-09 12:15 Florian Weimer
2023-05-09 14:16 ` Dave Blanchard
2023-05-09 15:03 ` David Edelsohn
2023-05-09 15:07   ` Sam James
2023-05-09 15:35     ` Dave Blanchard
2023-05-09 15:58       ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-09 16:26       ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-05-09 15:14   ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-09 15:22     ` Dave Blanchard
2023-05-09 16:38       ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-05-09 16:57         ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-09 17:05           ` Sam James
2023-05-09 18:55             ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-09 17:15           ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-09 19:04             ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-09 19:07               ` Jakub Jelinek
2023-05-09 19:22                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-09 20:13                   ` David Edelsohn
2023-05-09 20:21                     ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-05-10  2:38                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-10  8:36                         ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-05-10 11:52                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-10 11:56                             ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-10 12:25                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-10 12:30                                 ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-10 12:44                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-15 12:28                         ` Richard Earnshaw (lists)
2023-05-15 20:17                           ` Eric Gallager
2023-05-16  7:05                             ` Florian Weimer
2023-05-16 15:56                               ` Jason Merrill
2023-05-09 20:40                     ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-09 22:27                       ` David Edelsohn
2023-05-09 22:37                         ` Joel Sherrill
2023-05-09 22:45                           ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-10 10:40                             ` Eric Gallager
2023-05-10 10:45                               ` Sam James
2023-05-10 10:56                                 ` Neal Gompa
2023-05-10 12:06                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-10 12:10                                     ` Neal Gompa
2023-05-10 12:41                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-10 10:48                               ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-10 10:51                                 ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-10 12:00                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-10 12:42                                 ` Sam James
2023-05-10 15:10                             ` Joel Sherrill
2023-05-10 15:14                               ` Jakub Jelinek
2023-05-10 16:36                                 ` Joel Sherrill
2023-05-10 16:44                                   ` Jakub Jelinek
2023-05-10 17:05                                   ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-10 18:37                             ` James K. Lowden
2023-05-10 23:26                               ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-11 18:47                                 ` Jason Merrill
2023-05-10 23:33                               ` Sam James
2023-05-11  5:48                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-11  2:28                             ` Po Lu
2023-05-11  2:09                       ` Po Lu
2023-05-11  2:14                         ` Sam James
2023-05-11  2:23                           ` Po Lu
2023-05-11  3:14                             ` Eli Schwartz
2023-05-11  3:56                               ` Po Lu
2023-05-11  4:46                                 ` Eli Schwartz
2023-05-11  4:49                                   ` Eli Schwartz
2023-05-11  6:23                                     ` Po Lu
2023-05-11  6:18                                   ` Po Lu
2023-05-11 22:41                                     ` Eli Schwartz
2023-05-12  2:08                                       ` Po Lu
2023-05-12  3:07                                         ` Eli Schwartz
2023-05-12  5:57                                           ` Po Lu
2023-05-12 11:05                                             ` Gabriel Ravier
2023-05-12 13:53                                               ` Po Lu
2023-05-12 14:03                                                 ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-14 12:35                                                 ` Mark Wielaard
2023-05-12 11:48                                             ` Is the GNUC dialect anything that GCC does when given source code containing UB? (Was: More C type errors by default for GCC 14) Eli Schwartz
2023-05-12 13:07                                               ` Is the GNUC dialect anything that GCC does when given source code containing UB? Po Lu
2023-05-12  6:56                                           ` More C type errors by default for GCC 14 Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-12  7:28                                             ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-12 10:36                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-12 13:19                                               ` Po Lu
2023-05-12 13:25                                                 ` Gabriel Ravier
2023-05-13  0:45                                                   ` Po Lu
2023-05-13  5:30                                                     ` Thomas Koenig
2023-05-13  5:53                                                       ` Po Lu
2023-05-14  5:10                                                         ` Eli Schwartz
2023-05-14  5:38                                                           ` Po Lu
2023-05-14  9:46                                                             ` David Brown
2023-05-14 10:21                                                               ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-14 10:23                                                                 ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-14  5:08                                                     ` Eli Schwartz
2023-05-14  5:28                                                       ` Po Lu
2023-05-14  5:56                                                         ` Eli Schwartz
2023-05-14 11:55                                                           ` Po Lu
2023-05-14 12:22                                                             ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-05-15  1:05                                                               ` Po Lu
2023-05-14  6:03                                                         ` Eli Schwartz
2023-05-14  8:47                                                         ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-14 12:05                                                           ` Po Lu [this message]
2023-05-14 12:48                                                             ` Nicholas Vinson
2023-05-14 10:29                                                         ` David Brown
2023-05-12 15:51                                                 ` Jason Merrill
2023-05-17 10:06                                                   ` Florian Weimer
2023-05-12 11:26                                         ` David Brown
2023-05-11  6:24                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-11 22:43                                     ` Eli Schwartz
2023-05-12  2:38                                       ` Po Lu
2023-05-12  2:55                                         ` Jason Merrill
2023-05-12  6:01                                           ` Po Lu
2023-05-12  6:40                                             ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-12 13:23                                               ` Po Lu
2023-05-12 10:49                                             ` Pedro Alves
2023-05-12 13:26                                               ` Po Lu
2023-05-12 11:55                                             ` Eli Schwartz
2023-05-12 13:54                                               ` Po Lu
2023-05-12  6:49                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-12  2:56                                         ` Sam James
2023-05-12  6:03                                           ` Po Lu
2023-05-12  3:06                                         ` Sam James
2023-05-12  6:25                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-12 11:23                                         ` Gabriel Ravier
2023-05-11  6:12                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-11  7:04                                 ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-11 22:30                                 ` Eli Schwartz
2023-05-11 22:35                                   ` Sam James
2023-05-12  2:40                                     ` Po Lu
2023-05-12  2:52                                       ` Sam James
2023-05-12  5:32                                         ` Po Lu
2023-05-12  2:39                                   ` Po Lu
2023-05-12  3:18                                     ` Eli Schwartz
2023-05-12  6:17                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-11  7:59                         ` David Brown
2023-05-09 21:00                     ` Thomas Koenig
2023-05-09 21:17                       ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-05-10 13:57                       ` Florian Weimer
2023-05-10 11:00                     ` David Brown
2023-05-11 10:49                       ` James K. Lowden
2023-05-11  1:38                     ` Po Lu
2023-05-11  1:43                       ` Sam James
2023-05-11  2:20                         ` Po Lu
2023-05-09 20:57                   ` Florian Weimer
2023-05-10  2:33                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-10  8:04                       ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-10  8:46                         ` Richard Biener
2023-05-10 12:26                           ` Florian Weimer
2023-05-10 11:30                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-10 12:03                           ` Jakub Jelinek
2023-05-10 12:36                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-10 12:41                               ` Gabriel Ravier
2023-05-10 14:14                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-10 14:22                                   ` Jakub Jelinek
2023-05-10 15:30                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-10 16:02                                       ` Jakub Jelinek
2023-05-10 16:31                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-10 16:33                                           ` Richard Biener
2023-05-10 16:57                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-10 17:08                                           ` Joseph Myers
2023-05-10 18:18                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-12 15:02                                             ` Florian Weimer
2023-05-12 17:52                                               ` Florian Weimer
2023-05-12 17:55                                                 ` Gabriel Ravier
2023-05-12 18:00                                                   ` Florian Weimer
2023-05-12 18:08                                                   ` Alexander Monakov
2023-05-12 18:14                                                     ` Florian Weimer
2023-05-15 12:51                                                       ` Michael Matz
2023-05-16  8:55                                                         ` Florian Weimer
2023-05-16 10:39                                                           ` Alexander Monakov
2023-05-16 11:01                                                             ` Jakub Jelinek
2023-05-16 11:09                                                               ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-16 11:15                                                               ` Florian Weimer
2023-05-12 19:44                                               ` Joseph Myers
2023-05-12 20:43                                                 ` Florian Weimer
2023-05-12 20:18                                               ` Jason Merrill
2023-05-12 20:57                                                 ` Florian Weimer
2023-05-12 21:20                                                   ` Sam James
2023-05-12 21:21                                               ` Sam James
2023-05-12 21:37                                                 ` Florian Weimer
2023-05-12 21:47                                                   ` Sam James
2023-05-12 21:59                                                     ` Florian Weimer
2023-05-10 15:58                                   ` David Brown
2023-05-10 16:28                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-11  6:52                                       ` David Brown
2023-05-11  7:39                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-10 14:31                             ` Thomas Koenig
2023-05-10 15:37                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-11  2:38                         ` Po Lu
2023-05-11  7:38                           ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-05-11  8:31                             ` Po Lu
2023-05-11  8:44                               ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-05-11  9:28                                 ` Po Lu
2023-05-11 21:10                                   ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-05-12  1:41                                     ` Po Lu
2023-05-11 10:35                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-11 19:25                                   ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-05-12  2:36                                     ` Po Lu
2023-05-12 12:30                                       ` Gabriel Ravier
2023-05-12 13:56                                         ` Po Lu
2023-05-12  7:53                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-12  8:15                                       ` Jakub Jelinek
2023-05-12 10:40                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-12  8:45                                       ` Christian Groessler
2023-05-12 10:14                                         ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-12  9:11                                       ` Thomas Koenig
2023-05-11  8:53                               ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-11  9:29                                 ` Po Lu
2023-05-10  8:49               ` David Brown
2023-05-10 11:37                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-10 11:49                   ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-10 12:22                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-10 13:30                       ` David Brown
2023-05-10 14:39                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-10 15:21                           ` Paul Koning
2023-05-10 16:20                           ` David Brown
2023-05-10 16:48                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-10 12:32                   ` Sam James
2023-05-10 12:47                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-09 19:33           ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-05-09 15:25     ` David Edelsohn
2023-05-11  1:25     ` Po Lu
2023-05-11  1:30       ` Sam James
2023-05-11  1:33       ` Sam James
2023-05-11  2:18         ` Po Lu
2023-05-11  6:44           ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-11  8:32             ` Po Lu
2023-05-11  8:52               ` Jonathan Wakely
2023-05-11  7:36       ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-05-11  8:23         ` Po Lu
2023-05-09 18:22   ` Florian Weimer
2023-05-11 21:32     ` Segher Boessenkool
2023-05-09 15:16 ` Richard Biener
2023-05-09 16:05   ` Jakub Jelinek
2023-05-09 16:11     ` Sam James
2023-05-09 16:13     ` David Edelsohn
     [not found]       ` <BBE9950C-28AA-4A1C-A4C5-7F486538004E@gmail.com>
2023-05-09 16:44         ` Florian Weimer
2023-05-09 16:58           ` Ian Lance Taylor
2023-05-09 17:08           ` Jason Merrill
2023-05-09 17:16             ` Sam James
2023-05-09 16:59   ` Florian Weimer
2023-05-09 17:07     ` Sam James
2023-05-09 17:35       ` Florian Weimer
2023-05-11 15:21 ` Peter0x44
2023-05-12  9:33 ` Martin Jambor
2023-05-12 12:30   ` Jakub Jelinek
2023-05-15 12:46     ` Michael Matz
2023-05-15 13:14     ` Richard Earnshaw (lists)
2023-05-10 12:41 Marcin Jaczewski
2023-05-10 14:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-10 13:10 Basile Starynkevitch
2023-05-10 14:20 ` David Brown

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