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* problems with memory allocation and the alignment check
@ 2021-02-22  9:08 Michael J. Baars
  2021-02-22  9:29 ` Andrew Pinski
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Michael J. Baars @ 2021-02-22  9:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: gcc, linux-kernel

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 390 bytes --]

Hi,

I just wrote this little program to demonstrate a possible flaw in both malloc and calloc.

If I allocate a the simplest memory region from main(), one out of three optimization flags fail.
If I allocate the same region from a function, three out of three optimization flags fail.

Does someone know if this really is a flaw, and if so, is it a gcc or a kernel flaw?

Regards,
Mischa.

[-- Attachment #2: main.c --]
[-- Type: text/x-csrc, Size: 862 bytes --]

#include	<stdlib.h>
#include	<stdint.h>

#define	RFLAGS_REGISTER_GET(y)						\
{									\
	asm	volatile							\
	(								\
	"	pushfq						\n"	\
	"	pop	%0					\n"	\
									\
		: "=m"	(* y) 						\
	);								\
};

#define	RFLAGS_REGISTER_SET(x)						\
{									\
	asm	volatile							\
	(								\
	"	push	%0					\n"	\
	"	popfq						\n"	\
									\
		:							\
		: "r"	(* x) 						\
	);								\
};

struct	storage
{
	uint8_t* c;
};

int	function(struct storage* s)
{
	s->c   =	calloc	(sizeof(uint8_t), 8);
		free	(s->c);
};

int	main()
{
	struct	storage	s;
	uint64_t		rflags;
	
	RFLAGS_REGISTER_GET(&rflags);	rflags         ^=	0x0000000000040000;
	RFLAGS_REGISTER_SET(&rflags);

//	function(&s);
	
	s.c    =	calloc	(sizeof(uint8_t), 8);
		free	(s.c);
		
	RFLAGS_REGISTER_GET(&rflags);	rflags         ^=	0x0000000000040000;
	RFLAGS_REGISTER_SET(&rflags);
}


[-- Attachment #3: makefile --]
[-- Type: text/x-makefile, Size: 102 bytes --]

all:

	gcc        -o main      main.c
	gcc -O2    -o mainO2    main.c
	gcc -Ofast -o mainOfast main.c

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

* Re: problems with memory allocation and the alignment check
  2021-02-22  9:08 problems with memory allocation and the alignment check Michael J. Baars
@ 2021-02-22  9:29 ` Andrew Pinski
  2021-02-22  9:37   ` Michael J. Baars
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Andrew Pinski @ 2021-02-22  9:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Michael J. Baars; +Cc: GCC Mailing List, LKML

On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 1:17 AM Michael J. Baars
<mjbaars1977.gcc@cyberfiber.eu> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I just wrote this little program to demonstrate a possible flaw in both malloc and calloc.
>
> If I allocate a the simplest memory region from main(), one out of three optimization flags fail.
> If I allocate the same region from a function, three out of three optimization flags fail.
>
> Does someone know if this really is a flaw, and if so, is it a gcc or a kernel flaw?

There is no flaw.  GCC (kernel, glibc) all assume unaligned accesses
on x86 will not cause an exception.

Thanks,
Andrew

>
> Regards,
> Mischa.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

* Re: problems with memory allocation and the alignment check
  2021-02-22  9:29 ` Andrew Pinski
@ 2021-02-22  9:37   ` Michael J. Baars
  2021-02-22  9:41     ` Andrew Pinski
                       ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Michael J. Baars @ 2021-02-22  9:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Andrew Pinski; +Cc: GCC Mailing List, LKML

On Mon, 2021-02-22 at 01:29 -0800, Andrew Pinski wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 1:17 AM Michael J. Baars
> <mjbaars1977.gcc@cyberfiber.eu> wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I just wrote this little program to demonstrate a possible flaw in both malloc and calloc.
> > 
> > If I allocate a the simplest memory region from main(), one out of three optimization flags fail.
> > If I allocate the same region from a function, three out of three optimization flags fail.
> > 
> > Does someone know if this really is a flaw, and if so, is it a gcc or a kernel flaw?
> 
> There is no flaw.  GCC (kernel, glibc) all assume unaligned accesses
> on x86 will not cause an exception.

Is this just an assumption or more like a fact? I agree with you that byte aligned is more or less the same as unaligned.

> 
> Thanks,
> Andrew
> 
> > Regards,
> > Mischa.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

* Re: problems with memory allocation and the alignment check
  2021-02-22  9:37   ` Michael J. Baars
@ 2021-02-22  9:41     ` Andrew Pinski
  2021-02-22 10:04       ` Michael J. Baars
  2021-02-24  7:05       ` Michael J. Baars
  2021-02-22  9:50     ` Gabriel Ravier
  2021-02-23 11:46     ` David Laight
  2 siblings, 2 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Andrew Pinski @ 2021-02-22  9:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Michael J. Baars; +Cc: GCC Mailing List, LKML

On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 1:37 AM Michael J. Baars
<mjbaars1977.gcc@cyberfiber.eu> wrote:
>
> On Mon, 2021-02-22 at 01:29 -0800, Andrew Pinski wrote:
> > On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 1:17 AM Michael J. Baars
> > <mjbaars1977.gcc@cyberfiber.eu> wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I just wrote this little program to demonstrate a possible flaw in both malloc and calloc.
> > >
> > > If I allocate a the simplest memory region from main(), one out of three optimization flags fail.
> > > If I allocate the same region from a function, three out of three optimization flags fail.
> > >
> > > Does someone know if this really is a flaw, and if so, is it a gcc or a kernel flaw?
> >
> > There is no flaw.  GCC (kernel, glibc) all assume unaligned accesses
> > on x86 will not cause an exception.
>
> Is this just an assumption or more like a fact? I agree with you that byte aligned is more or less the same as unaligned.

It is an assumption that is even made inside GCC.  You can modify GCC
not to assume that but you need to recompile all libraries and even
check the assembly code that is included with most programs.
Why are you enabling the alignment access check anyways?  What are you
trying to do?
If you are looking into a performance issue with unaligned accesses,
may I suggest you look into perf to see if you can see unaligned
accesses?

Thanks,
Andrew

>
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Andrew
> >
> > > Regards,
> > > Mischa.
>

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

* Re: problems with memory allocation and the alignment check
  2021-02-22  9:37   ` Michael J. Baars
  2021-02-22  9:41     ` Andrew Pinski
@ 2021-02-22  9:50     ` Gabriel Ravier
  2021-02-22 10:05       ` Michael J. Baars
  2021-02-23 11:46     ` David Laight
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Gabriel Ravier @ 2021-02-22  9:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: gcc

On 2/22/21 10:37 AM, Michael J. Baars wrote:
> On Mon, 2021-02-22 at 01:29 -0800, Andrew Pinski wrote:
>> On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 1:17 AM Michael J. Baars
>> <mjbaars1977.gcc@cyberfiber.eu> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I just wrote this little program to demonstrate a possible flaw in both malloc and calloc.
>>>
>>> If I allocate a the simplest memory region from main(), one out of three optimization flags fail.
>>> If I allocate the same region from a function, three out of three optimization flags fail.
>>>
>>> Does someone know if this really is a flaw, and if so, is it a gcc or a kernel flaw?
>> There is no flaw.  GCC (kernel, glibc) all assume unaligned accesses
>> on x86 will not cause an exception.
> Is this just an assumption or more like a fact? I agree with you that byte aligned is more or less the same as unaligned.
IIRC it's a fact, unless you change EFLAGS to enable the unaligned 
access exception flag, which is forbidden by the ABI.
>> Thanks,
>> Andrew
>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Mischa.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

* Re: problems with memory allocation and the alignment check
  2021-02-22  9:41     ` Andrew Pinski
@ 2021-02-22 10:04       ` Michael J. Baars
  2021-02-24  7:05       ` Michael J. Baars
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Michael J. Baars @ 2021-02-22 10:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Andrew Pinski; +Cc: GCC Mailing List, LKML

On Mon, 2021-02-22 at 01:41 -0800, Andrew Pinski wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 1:37 AM Michael J. Baars
> <mjbaars1977.gcc@cyberfiber.eu> wrote:
> > On Mon, 2021-02-22 at 01:29 -0800, Andrew Pinski wrote:
> > > On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 1:17 AM Michael J. Baars
> > > <mjbaars1977.gcc@cyberfiber.eu> wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > > 
> > > > I just wrote this little program to demonstrate a possible flaw in both malloc and calloc.
> > > > 
> > > > If I allocate a the simplest memory region from main(), one out of three optimization flags fail.
> > > > If I allocate the same region from a function, three out of three optimization flags fail.
> > > > 
> > > > Does someone know if this really is a flaw, and if so, is it a gcc or a kernel flaw?
> > > 
> > > There is no flaw.  GCC (kernel, glibc) all assume unaligned accesses
> > > on x86 will not cause an exception.
> > 
> > Is this just an assumption or more like a fact? I agree with you that byte aligned is more or less the same as unaligned.
> 
> It is an assumption that is even made inside GCC.  You can modify GCC
> not to assume that but you need to recompile all libraries and even
> check the assembly code that is included with most programs.
> Why are you enabling the alignment access check anyways?  What are you
> trying to do?

I'm writing an algorithm to compress and encrypt data for use in cluster computing. While trying to verify my own code, I stumbled upon this. Just like that...

And yes, as always performance certainly is an issue :) Correctness of the code even more.

> If you are looking into a performance issue with unaligned accesses,
> may I suggest you look into perf to see if you can see unaligned
> accesses?

So it's more like a joke than a flaw? I noticed it earlier with printf too, and traced it back to the strlen kernel assembly code where a lot of sse code is
used that expects memory to be aligned at the 16 byte boundary. Most character strings that come with printf as an argument, apparently aren't.

I'll have a look at perf.

> 
> Thanks,
> Andrew
> 
> > > Thanks,
> > > Andrew
> > > 
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Mischa.




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

* Re: problems with memory allocation and the alignment check
  2021-02-22  9:50     ` Gabriel Ravier
@ 2021-02-22 10:05       ` Michael J. Baars
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Michael J. Baars @ 2021-02-22 10:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: gcc

On Mon, 2021-02-22 at 10:50 +0100, Gabriel Ravier via Gcc wrote:
> On 2/22/21 10:37 AM, Michael J. Baars wrote:
> > On Mon, 2021-02-22 at 01:29 -0800, Andrew Pinski wrote:
> > > On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 1:17 AM Michael J. Baars
> > > <mjbaars1977.gcc@cyberfiber.eu> wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > > 
> > > > I just wrote this little program to demonstrate a possible flaw in both malloc and calloc.
> > > > 
> > > > If I allocate a the simplest memory region from main(), one out of three optimization flags fail.
> > > > If I allocate the same region from a function, three out of three optimization flags fail.
> > > > 
> > > > Does someone know if this really is a flaw, and if so, is it a gcc or a kernel flaw?
> > > There is no flaw.  GCC (kernel, glibc) all assume unaligned accesses
> > > on x86 will not cause an exception.
> > Is this just an assumption or more like a fact? I agree with you that byte aligned is more or less the same as unaligned.
> IIRC it's a fact, unless you change EFLAGS to enable the unaligned 
> access exception flag, which is forbidden by the ABI.

I see :)

> > > Thanks,
> > > Andrew
> > > 
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Mischa.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

* RE: problems with memory allocation and the alignment check
  2021-02-22  9:37   ` Michael J. Baars
  2021-02-22  9:41     ` Andrew Pinski
  2021-02-22  9:50     ` Gabriel Ravier
@ 2021-02-23 11:46     ` David Laight
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: David Laight @ 2021-02-23 11:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 'Michael J. Baars', Andrew Pinski; +Cc: GCC Mailing List, LKML

> > > I just wrote this little program to demonstrate a possible flaw in both malloc and calloc.
> > >
> > > If I allocate a the simplest memory region from main(), one out of three optimization flags fail.
> > > If I allocate the same region from a function, three out of three optimization flags fail.
> > >
> > > Does someone know if this really is a flaw, and if so, is it a gcc or a kernel flaw?
> >
> > There is no flaw.  GCC (kernel, glibc) all assume unaligned accesses
> > on x86 will not cause an exception.
> 
> Is this just an assumption or more like a fact? I agree with you that byte aligned is more or less the
> same as unaligned.

They require that such accesses don't cause an exception.

While the misaligned accesses are slightly slower (apart from locked accesses
that cross page boundaries) the cost of avoiding them is typically higher.

This is particularly true for functions like strlen() which are often
called for short strings.
Care does have to be taken to stop strlen() reading across a page boundary.

	David

-
Registered Address Lakeside, Bramley Road, Mount Farm, Milton Keynes, MK1 1PT, UK
Registration No: 1397386 (Wales)

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

* Re: problems with memory allocation and the alignment check
  2021-02-22  9:41     ` Andrew Pinski
  2021-02-22 10:04       ` Michael J. Baars
@ 2021-02-24  7:05       ` Michael J. Baars
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Michael J. Baars @ 2021-02-24  7:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Andrew Pinski; +Cc: GCC Mailing List, LKML

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2223 bytes --]

On Mon, 2021-02-22 at 01:41 -0800, Andrew Pinski wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 1:37 AM Michael J. Baars
> <mjbaars1977.gcc@cyberfiber.eu> wrote:
> > On Mon, 2021-02-22 at 01:29 -0800, Andrew Pinski wrote:
> > > On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 1:17 AM Michael J. Baars
> > > <mjbaars1977.gcc@cyberfiber.eu> wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > > 
> > > > I just wrote this little program to demonstrate a possible flaw in both malloc and calloc.
> > > > 
> > > > If I allocate a the simplest memory region from main(), one out of three optimization flags fail.
> > > > If I allocate the same region from a function, three out of three optimization flags fail.
> > > > 
> > > > Does someone know if this really is a flaw, and if so, is it a gcc or a kernel flaw?
> > > 
> > > There is no flaw.  GCC (kernel, glibc) all assume unaligned accesses
> > > on x86 will not cause an exception.
> > 
> > Is this just an assumption or more like a fact? I agree with you that byte aligned is more or less the same as unaligned.
> 
> It is an assumption that is even made inside GCC.  You can modify GCC
> not to assume that but you need to recompile all libraries and even
> check the assembly code that is included with most programs.
> Why are you enabling the alignment access check anyways?  What are you
> trying to do?
> If you are looking into a performance issue with unaligned accesses,
> may I suggest you look into perf to see if you can see unaligned
> accesses?

Next to performance and correctness, I always try to keep in mind that every clock cycle will eventually end up on the energy bill, to avoid that computers cost
ten times more on the energy bill then they do in the store.

If you look at the power consumption of the Playstation 1 vs that of the Playstation 3 for example, you will see that the Playstation 1 uses (10 W / 240 V
= 0.041666667 A max, while the Playstation 3 consumes 240 V * 1.7 A = 408 W. More than 40 times as much energy!!!

Code and style always go hand in hand. Try to keep you code as sleek as possible and you will see that even an old computer can do a lot more than you ever
thought possible :)

Thanks,
Mischa.

> Thanks,
> Andrew
> 
> > > Thanks,
> > > Andrew
> > > 
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Mischa.

[-- Attachment #2: compression.c --]
[-- Type: text/x-csrc, Size: 2845 bytes --]

#include	<stdint.h>

#include	"compression.h"

uint8_t	data_s[256]     =	{
				0x00, 0x01, 0x02, 0x03, 0x04, 0x05, 0x06, 0x07, 0x08, 0x09, 0x0A, 0x0B, 0x0C, 0x0D, 0x0E, 0x0F, 0x10, 0x11, 0x12, 0x13, 0x14, 0x15, 0x16, 0x17, 0x18, 0x19, 0x1A, 0x1B, 0x1C, 0x1D, 0x1E, 0x1F,
				0x20, 0x21, 0x22, 0x23, 0x24, 0x25, 0x26, 0x27, 0x28, 0x29, 0x2A, 0x2B, 0x2C, 0x2D, 0x2E, 0x2F, 0x30, 0x31, 0x32, 0x33, 0x34, 0x35, 0x36, 0x37, 0x38, 0x39, 0x3A, 0x3B, 0x3C, 0x3D, 0x3E, 0x3F,
				0x40, 0x41, 0x42, 0x43, 0x44, 0x45, 0x46, 0x47, 0x48, 0x49, 0x4A, 0x4B, 0x4C, 0x4D, 0x4E, 0x4F, 0x50, 0x51, 0x52, 0x53, 0x54, 0x55, 0x56, 0x57, 0x58, 0x59, 0x5A, 0x5B, 0x5C, 0x5D, 0x5E, 0x5F,
				0x60, 0x61, 0x62, 0x63, 0x64, 0x65, 0x66, 0x67, 0x68, 0x69, 0x6A, 0x6B, 0x6C, 0x6D, 0x6E, 0x6F, 0x70, 0x71, 0x72, 0x73, 0x74, 0x75, 0x76, 0x77, 0x78, 0x79, 0x7A, 0x7B, 0x7C, 0x7D, 0x7E, 0x7F,
				0x80, 0x81, 0x82, 0x83, 0x84, 0x85, 0x86, 0x87, 0x88, 0x89, 0x8A, 0x8B, 0x8C, 0x8D, 0x8E, 0x8F, 0x90, 0x91, 0x92, 0x93, 0x94, 0x95, 0x96, 0x97, 0x98, 0x99, 0x9A, 0x9B, 0x9C, 0x9D, 0x9E, 0x9F,
				0xA0, 0xA1, 0xA2, 0xA3, 0xA4, 0xA5, 0xA6, 0xA7, 0xA8, 0xA9, 0xAA, 0xAB, 0xAC, 0xAD, 0xAE, 0xAF, 0xB0, 0xB1, 0xB2, 0xB3, 0xB4, 0xB5, 0xB6, 0xB7, 0xB8, 0xB9, 0xBA, 0xBB, 0xBC, 0xBD, 0xBE, 0xBF,
				0xC0, 0xC1, 0xC2, 0xC3, 0xC4, 0xC5, 0xC6, 0xC7, 0xC8, 0xC9, 0xCA, 0xCB, 0xCC, 0xCD, 0xCE, 0xCF, 0xD0, 0xD1, 0xD2, 0xD3, 0xD4, 0xD5, 0xD6, 0xD7, 0xD8, 0xD9, 0xDA, 0xDB, 0xDC, 0xDD, 0xDE, 0xDF,
				0xE0, 0xE1, 0xE2, 0xE3, 0xE4, 0xE5, 0xE6, 0xE7, 0xE8, 0xE9, 0xEA, 0xEB, 0xEC, 0xED, 0xEE, 0xEF, 0xF0, 0xF1, 0xF2, 0xF3, 0xF4, 0xF5, 0xF6, 0xF7, 0xF8, 0xF9, 0xFA, 0xFB, 0xFC, 0xFD, 0xFE, 0xFF
			};
/*
0000000000000000 <compression_encode_prepare1>:
   0:	48 89 f9             	mov    %rdi,%rcx
   3:	31 d2                	xor    %edx,%edx
   5:	b8 00 00 00 01       	mov    $0x1000000,%eax
   a:	66 0f 1f 44 00 00    	nopw   0x0(%rax,%rax,1)
  10:	48 83 e8 01          	sub    $0x1,%rax
  14:	75 fa                	jne    10 <compression_encode_prepare1+0x10>
  16:	88 11                	mov    %dl,(%rcx)
  18:	48 83 c2 01          	add    $0x1,%rdx
  1c:	48 83 c1 01          	add    $0x1,%rcx
  20:	48 81 fa 00 01 00 00 	cmp    $0x100,%rdx
  27:	75 dc                	jne    5 <compression_encode_prepare1+0x5>
  29:	c3                   	retq   
  2a:	66 0f 1f 44 00 00    	nopw   0x0(%rax,%rax,1)
*/

void	compression_encode_prepare1	(struct compression* c)
{
	for	(uint64_t j = 0; j < (1 << 24); j++)
	for	(uint64_t i = 0; i < 256; i++)
	{
		c->data_t[i]    =	i;
	}
}

void	compression_encode_prepare2	(struct compression* c)
{
	for	(uint64_t j = 0; j < (1 << 24); j++)
	asm	volatile					\
	(						\
	"	lea		%0   , %%rdi	\n"	\
	"	lea		%1   , %%rsi	\n"	\
	"	mov		$0x20, %%rcx	\n"	\
	"	rep		movsq		\n"	\
		: "=m"		(c->data_t)		\
		: "m"		(   data_s)		\
		: "%rcx", "%rsi", "%rdi"			\
	);
}


[-- Attachment #3: compression.h --]
[-- Type: text/x-chdr, Size: 288 bytes --]

#ifndef	__COMPRESSION_H__
#define	__COMPRESSION_H__

#include	<stdint.h>

struct	compression
{
	uint8_t	data_t[256];	// compression tree indices
};

extern	void	compression_encode_prepare1	(struct compression* c);
extern	void	compression_encode_prepare2	(struct compression* c);

#endif


[-- Attachment #4: main.c --]
[-- Type: text/x-csrc, Size: 687 bytes --]

#include	<stdint.h>
#include	<stdio.h>
#include	<time.h>

#include	"compression.h"

int	main()
{
	clock_t	tic, toc;
	
	struct	compression	c;
	
	tic    =	clock();

				compression_encode_prepare1	(&c);
					
	toc    =	clock();
	
	for	(uint64_t i = 0; i < 256; i++) printf("%02hhX ", c.data_t[i]); printf("\n");
	
	printf("elapsed compression & encryption: %fs\n", (double) (toc - tic) / (double) CLOCKS_PER_SEC);	
	
	tic    =	clock();

				compression_encode_prepare2	(&c);
					
	toc    =	clock();
	
	for	(uint64_t i = 0; i < 256; i++) printf("%02hhX ", c.data_t[i]); printf("\n");
	
	printf("elapsed compression & encryption: %fs\n", (double) (toc - tic) / (double) CLOCKS_PER_SEC);	
}

[-- Attachment #5: makefile --]
[-- Type: text/x-makefile, Size: 153 bytes --]

all:

	gcc -Ofast -c -g -o compression.o compression.c
	gcc -Ofast -c -g -o main.o        main.c
	gcc -Ofast    -g -o main          main.o compression.o

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2021-02-24  7:05 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 9+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2021-02-22  9:08 problems with memory allocation and the alignment check Michael J. Baars
2021-02-22  9:29 ` Andrew Pinski
2021-02-22  9:37   ` Michael J. Baars
2021-02-22  9:41     ` Andrew Pinski
2021-02-22 10:04       ` Michael J. Baars
2021-02-24  7:05       ` Michael J. Baars
2021-02-22  9:50     ` Gabriel Ravier
2021-02-22 10:05       ` Michael J. Baars
2021-02-23 11:46     ` David Laight

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