[Bug localedata/14510] New: LC_NUMERIC wrong for various latin america locales

[Bug localedata/14510] New: LC_NUMERIC wrong for various latin america locales

[law at redhat dot com]

http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=14510

             Bug #: 14510
           Summary: LC_NUMERIC wrong for various latin america locales
           Product: glibc
           Version: 2.17
            Status: NEW
          Severity: normal
          Priority: P2
         Component: localedata
        AssignedTo: unassigned@sourceware.org
        ReportedBy: law@redhat.com
                CC: libc-locales@sources.redhat.com
    Classification: Unclassified


Back in November 2011, Uli checked in a large change which affected the
LC_NUMERIC settings of various es_* locales.  This change didn't reference any
supporting documentation.

It's now being reported that various es_* locals have the wrong LC_NUMERIC
settings for the decimal mark and thousands separator.

First I compared the es_* locales to CLDR for LC_NUMERIC settings.  This turned
up several differences (es_DO, es_GT, es_HN, es_MX, es_NI, es_PA, es_PE, es_PR,
es_SV).

For each of those locales I then went in search of documents, preferably
government documents which would show usage of the decimal mark and thousands
separator.


Mexico:
http://www.economia.gob.mx/files/diagnostico_economia_mexicana.pdf

Dominican Republic:
http://www.bancentral.gov.do/noticias/avisos/aviso2010-06-25.pdf

We can get grouping from this document from the Guatemala Government.  Once we
know grouping uses ',', then the decimal mark must be '.'.
http://www.ine.gob.gt/np/enei/ENEI2011.htm

Honduras:
http://www.ine.gob.hn/drupal/node/175
http://archivo.laprensa.hn/Negocios/Ediciones/2011/02/07/Noticias/Tasa-de-desempleo-de-Honduras-subio-a-44

Nicaragua:
http://www.bcn.gob.ni/estadisticas/economicas_anuales/nicaragua_en_cifras/2010/Nicaragua_en_cifras2010.pdf

Panama:
http://www.mef.gob.pa/portal/2011-Comunicados/2011-DISMINUYESUSTANCIALMENTEELDESEMPLEOENPANAMA.html

Puerto Rico:
http://www.periodicolaperla.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3606:en-puerto-rico-la-tasa-de-empleo-cae-al-nivel-mas-bajo-en-la-historia&catid=93:analisis-economico&Itemid=300

El Salvador:
http://www.minec.gob.sv/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&catid=1:noticias-ciudadano&id=1567:encuesta&Itemid=77

All the above referenced documents show a decimal mark as '.' and the thousands
separator as ',', which indicate glibc's localedata is wrong.


Interestingly enough, Peru which was supposed to use '.' as the decimal
separator and ',' as the thousands separator according to CLDR seems to do the
opposite according to these government inflation and labor reports:

http://www.bcrp.gob.pe/docs/Publicaciones/Reporte-Inflacion/2010/marzo/Reporte-de-Inflacion-Marzo-2010.pdf
http://www.inei.gob.pe/biblioineipub/bancopub/Est/Lib0909/libro.pdf

Thus es_PE is correct as-is.

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[Bug localedata/14510] LC_NUMERIC wrong for various latin america locales

[law at redhat dot com]

http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=14510

--- Comment #1 from law at redhat dot com 2012-08-22 18:02:59 UTC ---
Created attachment 6600
  --> http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=6600
Patch to fix various es_* locales

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Re: [Bug localedata/14510] New: LC_NUMERIC wrong for various latin america locales

[Keld Simonsen]

On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 05:54:17PM +0000, law at redhat dot com wrote:
> http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=14510
> 
>              Bug #: 14510
>            Summary: LC_NUMERIC wrong for various latin america locales
>            Product: glibc
>            Version: 2.17
>             Status: NEW
>           Severity: normal
>           Priority: P2
>          Component: localedata
>         AssignedTo: unassigned@sourceware.org
>         ReportedBy: law@redhat.com
>                 CC: libc-locales@sources.redhat.com
>     Classification: Unclassified
> 
> 
> Back in November 2011, Uli checked in a large change which affected the
> LC_NUMERIC settings of various es_* locales.  This change didn't reference any
> supporting documentation.
> 
> It's now being reported that various es_* locals have the wrong LC_NUMERIC
> settings for the decimal mark and thousands separator.
> 
> First I compared the es_* locales to CLDR for LC_NUMERIC settings.  This turned
> up several differences (es_DO, es_GT, es_HN, es_MX, es_NI, es_PA, es_PE, es_PR,
> es_SV).
> 
> For each of those locales I then went in search of documents, preferably
> government documents which would show usage of the decimal mark and thousands
> separator.
> 
> 
> Mexico:
> http://www.economia.gob.mx/files/diagnostico_economia_mexicana.pdf
> 
> Dominican Republic:
> http://www.bancentral.gov.do/noticias/avisos/aviso2010-06-25.pdf
> 
> We can get grouping from this document from the Guatemala Government.  Once we
> know grouping uses ',', then the decimal mark must be '.'.
> http://www.ine.gob.gt/np/enei/ENEI2011.htm
> 
> Honduras:
> http://www.ine.gob.hn/drupal/node/175
> http://archivo.laprensa.hn/Negocios/Ediciones/2011/02/07/Noticias/Tasa-de-desempleo-de-Honduras-subio-a-44
> 
> Nicaragua:
> http://www.bcn.gob.ni/estadisticas/economicas_anuales/nicaragua_en_cifras/2010/Nicaragua_en_cifras2010.pdf
> 
> Panama:
> http://www.mef.gob.pa/portal/2011-Comunicados/2011-DISMINUYESUSTANCIALMENTEELDESEMPLEOENPANAMA.html
> 
> Puerto Rico:
> http://www.periodicolaperla.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3606:en-puerto-rico-la-tasa-de-empleo-cae-al-nivel-mas-bajo-en-la-historia&catid=93:analisis-economico&Itemid=300
> 
> El Salvador:
> http://www.minec.gob.sv/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&catid=1:noticias-ciudadano&id=1567:encuesta&Itemid=77
> 
> All the above referenced documents show a decimal mark as '.' and the thousands
> separator as ',', which indicate glibc's localedata is wrong.
> 
> 
> Interestingly enough, Peru which was supposed to use '.' as the decimal
> separator and ',' as the thousands separator according to CLDR seems to do the
> opposite according to these government inflation and labor reports:
> 
> http://www.bcrp.gob.pe/docs/Publicaciones/Reporte-Inflacion/2010/marzo/Reporte-de-Inflacion-Marzo-2010.pdf
> http://www.inei.gob.pe/biblioineipub/bancopub/Est/Lib0909/libro.pdf
> 
> Thus es_PE is correct as-is.

I checked a few of your references. They were economic reports.
Not kind of normative specifications from a standards or language authority.
You can also in my country (Denmark) find examples of use of the decimal point, which is
not according to standards here.

I looked i the IBM national Language Support Reference Manual ("The green bible"),
that I also used as one of the sources for making many locales.
For monetary decimal point, it seems like in North America in Spanish speaking
countries, they use the point, while in South America they use the comma.

This is not far from what you report, but I think we need some more authoritative sources.

Keld

[Bug localedata/14510] LC_NUMERIC wrong for various latin america locales

[keld at keldix dot com]

http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=14510

--- Comment #2 from keld at keldix dot com <keld at keldix dot com> 2012-08-22 23:56:18 UTC ---
On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 05:54:17PM +0000, law at redhat dot com wrote:
> http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=14510
> 
>              Bug #: 14510
>            Summary: LC_NUMERIC wrong for various latin america locales
>            Product: glibc
>            Version: 2.17
>             Status: NEW
>           Severity: normal
>           Priority: P2
>          Component: localedata
>         AssignedTo: unassigned@sourceware.org
>         ReportedBy: law@redhat.com
>                 CC: libc-locales@sources.redhat.com
>     Classification: Unclassified
> 
> 
> Back in November 2011, Uli checked in a large change which affected the
> LC_NUMERIC settings of various es_* locales.  This change didn't reference any
> supporting documentation.
> 
> It's now being reported that various es_* locals have the wrong LC_NUMERIC
> settings for the decimal mark and thousands separator.
> 
> First I compared the es_* locales to CLDR for LC_NUMERIC settings.  This turned
> up several differences (es_DO, es_GT, es_HN, es_MX, es_NI, es_PA, es_PE, es_PR,
> es_SV).
> 
> For each of those locales I then went in search of documents, preferably
> government documents which would show usage of the decimal mark and thousands
> separator.
> 
> 
> Mexico:
> http://www.economia.gob.mx/files/diagnostico_economia_mexicana.pdf
> 
> Dominican Republic:
> http://www.bancentral.gov.do/noticias/avisos/aviso2010-06-25.pdf
> 
> We can get grouping from this document from the Guatemala Government.  Once we
> know grouping uses ',', then the decimal mark must be '.'.
> http://www.ine.gob.gt/np/enei/ENEI2011.htm
> 
> Honduras:
> http://www.ine.gob.hn/drupal/node/175
> http://archivo.laprensa.hn/Negocios/Ediciones/2011/02/07/Noticias/Tasa-de-desempleo-de-Honduras-subio-a-44
> 
> Nicaragua:
> http://www.bcn.gob.ni/estadisticas/economicas_anuales/nicaragua_en_cifras/2010/Nicaragua_en_cifras2010.pdf
> 
> Panama:
> http://www.mef.gob.pa/portal/2011-Comunicados/2011-DISMINUYESUSTANCIALMENTEELDESEMPLEOENPANAMA.html
> 
> Puerto Rico:
> http://www.periodicolaperla.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3606:en-puerto-rico-la-tasa-de-empleo-cae-al-nivel-mas-bajo-en-la-historia&catid=93:analisis-economico&Itemid=300
> 
> El Salvador:
> http://www.minec.gob.sv/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&catid=1:noticias-ciudadano&id=1567:encuesta&Itemid=77
> 
> All the above referenced documents show a decimal mark as '.' and the thousands
> separator as ',', which indicate glibc's localedata is wrong.
> 
> 
> Interestingly enough, Peru which was supposed to use '.' as the decimal
> separator and ',' as the thousands separator according to CLDR seems to do the
> opposite according to these government inflation and labor reports:
> 
> http://www.bcrp.gob.pe/docs/Publicaciones/Reporte-Inflacion/2010/marzo/Reporte-de-Inflacion-Marzo-2010.pdf
> http://www.inei.gob.pe/biblioineipub/bancopub/Est/Lib0909/libro.pdf
> 
> Thus es_PE is correct as-is.

I checked a few of your references. They were economic reports.
Not kind of normative specifications from a standards or language authority.
You can also in my country (Denmark) find examples of use of the decimal point,
which is
not according to standards here.

I looked i the IBM national Language Support Reference Manual ("The green
bible"),
that I also used as one of the sources for making many locales.
For monetary decimal point, it seems like in North America in Spanish speaking
countries, they use the point, while in South America they use the comma.

This is not far from what you report, but I think we need some more
authoritative sources.

Keld

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[Bug localedata/14510] LC_NUMERIC wrong for various latin america locales

[jorsol at ubuntu dot org.ni]

http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=14510

Jorge Solorzano <jorsol at ubuntu dot org.ni> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 CC|                            |jorsol at ubuntu dot org.ni
           Assignee|unassigned at sourceware dot org   |libc-locales at sourceware dot org

--- Comment #3 from Jorge Solorzano <jorsol at ubuntu dot org.ni> ---
I confirm that in Nicaragua the decimal_point is "." and thousands_sep is ","

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[Bug localedata/14510] LC_NUMERIC wrong for various latin america locales

[ldominguez at tamps dot cinvestav.mx]

http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=14510

Luis Dominguez <ldominguez at tamps dot cinvestav.mx> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 CC|                            |ldominguez at tamps dot cinvestav.
                   |                            |mx

--- Comment #4 from Luis Dominguez <ldominguez at tamps dot cinvestav.mx> ---
In Mexico, the official regulation (NOM-008-SCFI-1993, and NOM-008-SCFI-2002)
set the decimal sign is as in the IS; however, in 2009 both the comma and the
point were declared valid. Unfortunately, these kind of regulations are not
mandatory, and people use the other notation in daily use, or as in the
examples by law@redhat.com

[ESP]
2009 reform:
http://www.dof.gob.mx/nota_detalle.php?codigo=5111108&fecha=24/09/2009

Last release:
http://www.amap.com.mx/download/26.NOM-008-SCFI-2002%20Sistema%20general%20de%20unidades%20de%20medida.pdf

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[Bug localedata/14510] LC_NUMERIC wrong for various latin america locales

[emileneth at gmail dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=14510

--- Comment #6 from Christian Servín <emileneth at gmail dot com> ---
I just edited my 
/usr/share/i18n/locales/es_MX

From:
LC_NUMERIC

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[Bug localedata/14510] LC_NUMERIC wrong for various latin america locales

[emileneth at gmail dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=14510

Christian Servín <emileneth at gmail dot com> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 CC|                            |emileneth at gmail dot com

--- Comment #5 from Christian Servín <emileneth at gmail dot com> ---
The reference:
"México: http://www.economia.gob.mx/files/diagnostico_economia_mexicana.pdf"

Is a gobernment document for formal informational purposes and it obeys a
visual design (like a powrpoint presentation), it is not intended for computer
systems I'm listing the troubles with this document:

a) Numerical data is presented with one, two or three decimals, depending on
the precision needed in the graph or paragraph. For day to day computational
numerical presentations two digit is good enough, just the same as en_US.
b) The document arbitrarily use Monetary format without the thousand separator
",", page 22 uses the notation 833,998 mdp (millions of pesos) without the $
symbol, but like the en_US we do use the $ symbol for money
c) Commonly the percentual values are good enough with %XX.x, math is math here
and in china.

Latin American numerical keyboard uses the "." for decimal and it is important
for us because when we make calculations with this keyboard its we use this key
for fast typing, same as in en_US

Right now the locale is like the spaniard persons use it. We can use the es_ES
way (decimal"," & thousands".") only when we exchange documents with en_ES
country, but it is not very common.

In México as of Jan 2010 it was introduced an increment in tax, up to 16%, this
value introduces troubles while calculating accounting balances when using only
2 decimal digits, so since that date accounting and monetary systems began to
use 4 digit precision. Formatted monetary values must include all 4 digits to
avoid manual transcription errors or precision errors during numerical methods.

For the same reason we also use 4 digits when exchanging currencies (same as
en_US): http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=USDMXN=X

This issue goes back to 2012, its time to make it right

See also:

http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/infocenter/forms/v3r5m0/index.jsp?topic=/com.ibm.form.designer.locales.doc/i_xfdl_r_formats_es_MX.html

http://lh.2xlibre.net/locale/es_MX/

http://www.localeplanet.com/icu/es-MX/

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[Bug localedata/14510] LC_NUMERIC wrong for various latin america locales

[emileneth at gmail dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=14510

--- Comment #7 from Christian Servín <emileneth at gmail dot com> ---
I just edited my 
/usr/share/i18n/locales/es_MX

From:
LC_NUMERIC
copy "es_ES"
END LC_NUMERIC

To:
LC_NUMERIC
copy "en_US"
END LC_NUMERIC

and inside LC_MONETARY
int_frac_digits4
frac_digits 4

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[Bug localedata/14510] LC_NUMERIC wrong for various latin america locales

[carlos at redhat dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=14510

Carlos O'Donell <carlos at redhat dot com> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
             Status|NEW                         |RESOLVED
                 CC|                            |carlos at redhat dot com
         Resolution|---                         |FIXED

--- Comment #8 from Carlos O'Donell <carlos at redhat dot com> ---
This issue has been fixed for a while now. Marking as fixed.

It does not fix the fractional digits for es_MX though, and those remain at 2.
Please file a new bug to discuss making this 4.

localedata/ChangeLog

2012-09-05  Jeff Law  <law@redhat.com>

        [BZ#14510]
        * locales/es_DO: Fix LC_NUMERIC decimal_point and thousands_sep.
        * locales/es_GT: Likewise.
        * locales/es_HN: Likewise.
        * locales/es_MX: Likewise.
        * locales/es_NI: Likewise.
        * locales/es_PA: Likewise.
        * locales/es_PR: Likewise.
        * locales/es_SV: Likewise.

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[Bug localedata/14510] LC_NUMERIC wrong for various latin america locales

[fweimer at redhat dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=14510

Florian Weimer <fweimer at redhat dot com> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
              Flags|                            |security-

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