[Bug localedata/12731] New: en_CA date-time format doesn't respect CAN/CSA-Z234.4 - ISO 8601

[Bug localedata/12731] New: en_CA date-time format doesn't respect CAN/CSA-Z234.4 - ISO 8601

[alexandre.f.demers at gmail dot com]

http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=12731

           Summary: en_CA date-time format doesn't respect CAN/CSA-Z234.4
                    - ISO 8601
           Product: glibc
           Version: 2.13
            Status: NEW
          Severity: normal
          Priority: P2
         Component: localedata
        AssignedTo: libc-locales@sources.redhat.com
        ReportedBy: alexandre.f.demers@gmail.com


Created attachment 5703
  --> http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=5703
Patch to follow the CSA - ISO

According to the SCC, the date and time format should follow CAN/CSA-Z234.4
which is compatible with ISO 8601. In particular, hours should be in a 24 hour
format instead of a 12 hour format and year should be made of 4 digits.
Proposing a patch in attachment.

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[Bug localedata/12731] [PATCH] en_CA date-time format doesn't respect CAN/CSA-Z234.4 - ISO 8601

[alexandre.f.demers at gmail dot com]

http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=12731

Alexandre Demers <alexandre.f.demers at gmail dot com> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
            Summary|en_CA date-time format      |[PATCH] en_CA date-time
                   |doesn't respect             |format doesn't respect
                   |CAN/CSA-Z234.4 - ISO 8601   |CAN/CSA-Z234.4 - ISO 8601

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[Bug localedata/12731] [PATCH] en_CA date-time format doesn't respect CAN/CSA-Z234.4 - ISO 8601

[drepper.fsp at gmail dot com]

http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=12731

Ulrich Drepper <drepper.fsp at gmail dot com> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
             Status|NEW                         |RESOLVED
                 CC|                            |drepper.fsp at gmail dot
                   |                            |com
         Resolution|                            |WONTFIX

--- Comment #1 from Ulrich Drepper <drepper.fsp at gmail dot com> 2011-05-09 13:17:58 UTC ---
It is not the "standard" format that is used.  Almost everywhere in the world
ISO 8601 is a standard.  But it is not the format people expect and that is
what locales are about.  Programs and scripts can easy use ISO 8601 where
wanted.

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[Bug localedata/12731] [PATCH] en_CA date-time format doesn't respect CAN/CSA-Z234.4 - ISO 8601

[alexandre.f.demers at gmail dot com]

http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=12731

Alexandre Demers <alexandre.f.demers at gmail dot com> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
             Status|RESOLVED                    |REOPENED
         Resolution|WONTFIX                     |

--- Comment #2 from Alexandre Demers <alexandre.f.demers at gmail dot com> 2011-05-09 16:29:03 UTC ---
According to National Research Council Canada (NRC) and to Standard Council of
Canada (SCC), the standard for date time format in Canada has to follow
CAN/CSA-Z234.4 which says mostly the same as ISO 8601. Have a look at the
official site (http://www.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/eng/ibp/inms/about/faq-time.html#Q8):

"Canadian Standard CAN Z234-4 specifies numeric representations of date and
time. The recommended full format is of the form 2001-12-31 23:59:28.73 UTC. It
is compatible with International Standard ISO 8601."

This means this is the format people are (should be) expecting. Thus, the
current locale file is incorrect and the patch should be applied. Without the
patch, the en_CA locale follows the US standard, which is one of the none
official way of writting the date time format here (we use three different ways
to write date time, but only one is official and should be used).

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[Bug localedata/12731] [PATCH] en_CA date-time format doesn't respect CAN/CSA-Z234.4 - ISO 8601

[alexandre.f.demers at gmail dot com]

http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=12731

--- Comment #3 from Alexandre Demers <alexandre.f.demers at gmail dot com> 2011-05-09 18:06:27 UTC ---
As a follow up, Ubuntu bug filed in 2010 about this problem:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/langpack-locales/+bug/517397

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[Bug localedata/12731] [PATCH] en_CA date-time format doesn't respect CAN/CSA-Z234.4 - ISO 8601

[alexandre.f.demers at gmail dot com]

http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=12731

--- Comment #5 from Alexandre Demers <alexandre.f.demers at gmail dot com> 2011-05-10 21:23:01 UTC ---
I do understand your point and I respect it. I usually change the format to ISO
8601 in my applications when it's possible. I also agree that if this is the
format people are expecting, it should also stay as it is. Googling the
question shows very different answers. Wikipedia says the format is used in
Canada along with others (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calendar_date). It's
true that I come from Quebec, where we use a lot more the ISO format/official
canadian sources, so I must be biased and that must explain why I usually see a
different format than the one in en_CA even if I'm living with, writing to and
working with english people here.

Cheers,
Alex

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[Bug localedata/12731] [PATCH] en_CA date-time format doesn't respect CAN/CSA-Z234.4 - ISO 8601

[fweimer at redhat dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=12731

Florian Weimer <fweimer at redhat dot com> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
              Flags|                            |security-

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[Bug localedata/12731] [PATCH] en_CA date-time format doesn't respect CAN/CSA-Z234.4 - ISO 8601

[fweimer at redhat dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=12731

Florian Weimer <fweimer at redhat dot com> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
             Status|RESOLVED                    |REOPENED
                 CC|                            |fweimer at redhat dot com
         Resolution|WONTFIX                     |---

--- Comment #6 from Florian Weimer <fweimer at redhat dot com> ---
The Canadian government uses %Y-%m-%d as the short date format at least, unlike
many other governments who claim to have adopted ISO 8601.

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[Bug localedata/12731] [PATCH] en_CA date-time format doesn't respect CAN/CSA-Z234.4 - ISO 8601

[fweimer at redhat dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=12731
Bug 12731 depends on bug 4628, which changed state.

Bug 4628 Summary: Provide rump locales with ISO 8601 variants for use with LC_TIME
https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=4628

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
             Status|RESOLVED                    |REOPENED
         Resolution|WONTFIX                     |---

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[Bug localedata/12731] [PATCH] en_CA date-time format doesn't respect CAN/CSA-Z234.4 - ISO 8601

[fweimer at redhat dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=12731

Florian Weimer <fweimer at redhat dot com> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
         Depends on|                            |4628


Referenced Bugs:

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=4628
[Bug 4628] Provide rump locales with ISO 8601 variants for use with LC_TIME
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[Bug localedata/12731] en_CA: date-time format doesn't respect CAN/CSA-Z234.4 - ISO 8601

[vapier at gentoo dot org]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=12731

Mike Frysinger <vapier at gentoo dot org> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
            Summary|[PATCH] en_CA date-time     |en_CA: date-time format
                   |format doesn't respect      |doesn't respect
                   |CAN/CSA-Z234.4 - ISO 8601   |CAN/CSA-Z234.4 - ISO 8601

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[Bug localedata/12731] en_CA: date-time format doesn't respect CAN/CSA-Z234.4 - ISO 8601

[carlos at redhat dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=12731

Carlos O'Donell <carlos at redhat dot com> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 CC|                            |carlos at redhat dot com

--- Comment #7 from Carlos O'Donell <carlos at redhat dot com> ---
(In reply to Alexandre Demers from comment #2)
> According to National Research Council Canada (NRC) and to Standard Council
> of Canada (SCC), the standard for date time format in Canada has to follow
> CAN/CSA-Z234.4 which says mostly the same as ISO 8601. Have a look at the
> official site
> (http://www.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/eng/ibp/inms/about/faq-time.html#Q8):
> 
> "Canadian Standard CAN Z234-4 specifies numeric representations of date and
> time. The recommended full format is of the form 2001-12-31 23:59:28.73 UTC.
> It is compatible with International Standard ISO 8601."
> 
> This means this is the format people are (should be) expecting. Thus, the
> current locale file is incorrect and the patch should be applied. Without
> the patch, the en_CA locale follows the US standard, which is one of the
> none official way of writting the date time format here (we use three
> different ways to write date time, but only one is official and should be
> used).

As a participating member of SCC's CAC/JTC1/SC22 my perspective is that while
the standard is fine for Government use, the en_CA locale is intended for
colloquial use. If you have government uses then you need to create your own
locale.

I believe we will solve this with a C.UTF-8@ISO8601 locale that follows the ISO
8601 time standard and can be used for LC_TIME to replace the current locales
time.

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