[Bug localedata/16777] New: Incorrect thousands separator in pl_PL locale

[Bug localedata/16777] New: Incorrect thousands separator in pl_PL locale

[mgorny at gentoo dot org]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=16777

            Bug ID: 16777
           Summary: Incorrect thousands separator in pl_PL locale
           Product: glibc
           Version: unspecified
            Status: NEW
          Severity: normal
          Priority: P2
         Component: localedata
          Assignee: unassigned at sourceware dot org
          Reporter: mgorny at gentoo dot org
                CC: libc-locales at sourceware dot org

Currently, glibc lists the following for pl_PL locale:

- no thousands separator in LC_NUMERIC section,

- '.' as thousands separator in LC_MONETARY section.

While actually, a non-breaking space is used as thousands separator in both
cases. However, I'm not sure if it is correct to use <U00A0> in locales or if
<U0020> should be used instead.

It should be also noted that the grouping is used only for numbers having more
than 4 digits, i.e. '4000' does not use grouping, '40 000' and '4 000 000' do
on 3-digit groups. I don't know if it is possible to express this in current
glibc localedata format.

References:

1. opinion given by a linguist:
   http://poradnia.pwn.pl/lista.php?id=9842

2. EU publication guidelines:
   http://publications.europa.eu/code/pl/pl-360500.htm

3. example law act, having numbers e.g. on page 111 (PDF):
   http://isip.sejm.gov.pl/Download?id=WDU19910800350&type=3

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[Bug localedata/16777] Incorrect thousands separator in pl_PL locale

[myllynen at redhat dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=16777

Marko Myllynen <myllynen at redhat dot com> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 CC|                            |myllynen at redhat dot com

--- Comment #1 from Marko Myllynen <myllynen at redhat dot com> ---
(In reply to Michał Górny from comment #0)
> Currently, glibc lists the following for pl_PL locale:
> 
> - no thousands separator in LC_NUMERIC section,
> 
> - '.' as thousands separator in LC_MONETARY section.
> 
> While actually, a non-breaking space is used as thousands separator in both
> cases. However, I'm not sure if it is correct to use <U00A0> in locales or
> if <U0020> should be used instead.

<00A0> should be used in this case, as do many other locales as well.

> It should be also noted that the grouping is used only for numbers having
> more than 4 digits, i.e. '4000' does not use grouping, '40 000' and '4 000
> 000' do on 3-digit groups. I don't know if it is possible to express this in
> current glibc localedata format.

Perhaps you want to see whether that's doable, please see the Locales wiki page
which has a link to a page describing LC_NUMERIC and grouping in detail. The
page contains also information on how to test and submit your locale changes.

Thanks.

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Re: [Bug localedata/16777] Incorrect thousands separator in pl_PL locale

[Keld Simonsen]

On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 07:10:18AM +0000, myllynen at redhat dot com wrote:
> https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=16777
> 
> Marko Myllynen <myllynen at redhat dot com> changed:
> 
>            What    |Removed                     |Added
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                  CC|                            |myllynen at redhat dot com
> 
> --- Comment #1 from Marko Myllynen <myllynen at redhat dot com> ---
> (In reply to Micha?? Górny from comment #0)
> > Currently, glibc lists the following for pl_PL locale:
> > 
> > - no thousands separator in LC_NUMERIC section,
> > 
> > - '.' as thousands separator in LC_MONETARY section.
> > 
> > While actually, a non-breaking space is used as thousands separator in both
> > cases. However, I'm not sure if it is correct to use <U00A0> in locales or
> > if <U0020> should be used instead.
> 
> <00A0> should be used in this case, as do many other locales as well.
> 
> > It should be also noted that the grouping is used only for numbers having
> > more than 4 digits, i.e. '4000' does not use grouping, '40 000' and '4 000
> > 000' do on 3-digit groups. I don't know if it is possible to express this in
> > current glibc localedata format.
> 
> Perhaps you want to see whether that's doable, please see the Locales wiki page
> which has a link to a page describing LC_NUMERIC and grouping in detail. The
> page contains also information on how to test and submit your locale changes.

I do not think the "under 10000" is doable with current glibc functionality.

furthermore I think this is not desirable, for LC_MONETARY.

The no break space versus the COMMA/PERIOD thousands separator issue
is a classical problem between linguistic and computer use.
Linguists tends in many languages, European style, to advocate no break space,
but for computer use a period is most often used. I have yet to see a financial
application to use no break space. Bank applications and ledger applications do not
use no break space.

Actually we shoud probably provide for both styles, and also do the "no separator
for under 10000.". I would then advise that we use the current functionality
in the POSIX style, and compatible with the POSIX/C locale, and then have new keywords
both in LC_MONETARY and LC_NUMERIC for the linguistic styles.

Best regards
Keld

[Bug localedata/16777] Incorrect thousands separator in pl_PL locale

[keld at keldix dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=16777

--- Comment #2 from keld at keldix dot com <keld at keldix dot com> ---
On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 07:10:18AM +0000, myllynen at redhat dot com wrote:
> https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=16777
> 
> Marko Myllynen <myllynen at redhat dot com> changed:
> 
>            What    |Removed                     |Added
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                  CC|                            |myllynen at redhat dot com
> 
> --- Comment #1 from Marko Myllynen <myllynen at redhat dot com> ---
> (In reply to Micha?? Górny from comment #0)
> > Currently, glibc lists the following for pl_PL locale:
> > 
> > - no thousands separator in LC_NUMERIC section,
> > 
> > - '.' as thousands separator in LC_MONETARY section.
> > 
> > While actually, a non-breaking space is used as thousands separator in both
> > cases. However, I'm not sure if it is correct to use <U00A0> in locales or
> > if <U0020> should be used instead.
> 
> <00A0> should be used in this case, as do many other locales as well.
> 
> > It should be also noted that the grouping is used only for numbers having
> > more than 4 digits, i.e. '4000' does not use grouping, '40 000' and '4 000
> > 000' do on 3-digit groups. I don't know if it is possible to express this in
> > current glibc localedata format.
> 
> Perhaps you want to see whether that's doable, please see the Locales wiki page
> which has a link to a page describing LC_NUMERIC and grouping in detail. The
> page contains also information on how to test and submit your locale changes.

I do not think the "under 10000" is doable with current glibc functionality.

furthermore I think this is not desirable, for LC_MONETARY.

The no break space versus the COMMA/PERIOD thousands separator issue
is a classical problem between linguistic and computer use.
Linguists tends in many languages, European style, to advocate no break space,
but for computer use a period is most often used. I have yet to see a financial
application to use no break space. Bank applications and ledger applications do
not
use no break space.

Actually we shoud probably provide for both styles, and also do the "no
separator
for under 10000.". I would then advise that we use the current functionality
in the POSIX style, and compatible with the POSIX/C locale, and then have new
keywords
both in LC_MONETARY and LC_NUMERIC for the linguistic styles.

Best regards
Keld

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Re: [Bug localedata/16777] Incorrect thousands separator in pl_PL locale

[Marko Myllynen]

Hi,

On 2014-03-31 13:44, Keld Simonsen wrote:
>>
>> Perhaps you want to see whether that's doable, please see the Locales wiki page
>> which has a link to a page describing LC_NUMERIC and grouping in detail. The
>> page contains also information on how to test and submit your locale changes.
> 
> I do not think the "under 10000" is doable with current glibc functionality.
> 
> furthermore I think this is not desirable, for LC_MONETARY.
> 
> The no break space versus the COMMA/PERIOD thousands separator issue
> is a classical problem between linguistic and computer use.
> Linguists tends in many languages, European style, to advocate no break space,
> but for computer use a period is most often used. I have yet to see a financial
> application to use no break space. Bank applications and ledger applications do not
> use no break space.
> 
> Actually we shoud probably provide for both styles, and also do the "no separator
> for under 10000.".

I filed a report about the "no separator for under 10000" case:

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=16782

> I would then advise that we use the current functionality
> in the POSIX style, and compatible with the POSIX/C locale, and then have new keywords
> both in LC_MONETARY and LC_NUMERIC for the linguistic styles.

So LC_MONETARY/mon_thousands_sep and LC_NUMERIC/thousands_sep would
still be used in the POSIX context and the new keywords would be defined
for linguistic context? What would be then used for the currently
defined keywords with locales where no-break space is the recommended
separator and which would used for linguistic context? Are there locales
where such distinction is defined?

Thanks,

-- 
Marko Myllynen

[Bug localedata/16777] Incorrect thousands separator in pl_PL locale

[fweimer at redhat dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=16777

Florian Weimer <fweimer at redhat dot com> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
              Flags|                            |security-

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[Bug localedata/16777] Incorrect thousands separator in pl_PL locale

[piotrdrag at gmail dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=16777

Piotr Drąg <piotrdrag at gmail dot com> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 CC|                            |piotrdrag at gmail dot com

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[Bug localedata/16777] pl_PL: incorrect thousands separator in locale

[vapier at gentoo dot org]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=16777

Mike Frysinger <vapier at gentoo dot org> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
            Summary|Incorrect thousands         |pl_PL: incorrect thousands
                   |separator in pl_PL locale   |separator in locale

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[Bug localedata/16777] pl_PL: incorrect thousands separator in locale

[gaazkam at outlook dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=16777

gaazkam at outlook dot com changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 CC|                            |gaazkam at outlook dot com

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[Bug localedata/16777] pl_PL: incorrect thousands separator in locale

[maiku.fabian at gmail dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=16777

Mike FABIAN <maiku.fabian at gmail dot com> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 CC|                            |maiku.fabian at gmail dot com
   Target Milestone|---                         |2.27

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[Bug localedata/16777] pl_PL: incorrect thousands separator in locale

[cvs-commit at gcc dot gnu.org]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=16777

--- Comment #3 from cvs-commit at gcc dot gnu.org <cvs-commit at gcc dot gnu.org> ---
This is an automated email from the git hooks/post-receive script. It was
generated because a ref change was pushed to the repository containing
the project "GNU C Library master sources".

The branch, master has been updated
       via  508b1e71a37355839ab91f9c09ce7e577cf69a58 (commit)
      from  2c2245b92ccf6344b324d17d8f94ccd3b8c559c6 (commit)

Those revisions listed above that are new to this repository have
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https://sourceware.org/git/gitweb.cgi?p=glibc.git;h=508b1e71a37355839ab91f9c09ce7e577cf69a58

commit 508b1e71a37355839ab91f9c09ce7e577cf69a58
Author: Mike FABIAN <mfabian@redhat.com>
Date:   Wed Oct 18 14:27:44 2017 +0200

    Use U+202F NARROW NO-BREAK SPACE as thousands separators in pl_PL locale
[BZ #16777]

        [BZ #16777]
        * localedata/locales/pl_PL (LC_MONETARY): Use U+202F as
mon_thousands_sep
        and improve readability by using more ASCII.
        * localedata/locales/pl_PL (LC_NUMERIC): Use U+202F as thousands_sep
        and improve readability by using more ASCII.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Summary of changes:
 ChangeLog                |    8 ++++++++
 localedata/locales/pl_PL |   16 ++++++++--------
 2 files changed, 16 insertions(+), 8 deletions(-)

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[Bug localedata/16777] pl_PL: incorrect thousands separator in locale

[maiku.fabian at gmail dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=16777

Mike FABIAN <maiku.fabian at gmail dot com> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
           Assignee|unassigned at sourceware dot org   |maiku.fabian at gmail dot com

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[Bug localedata/16777] pl_PL: incorrect thousands separator in locale

[maiku.fabian at gmail dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=16777

Mike FABIAN <maiku.fabian at gmail dot com> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
             Status|NEW                         |RESOLVED
         Resolution|---                         |FIXED

--- Comment #4 from Mike FABIAN <maiku.fabian at gmail dot com> ---
Fixed in glibc master.

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[Bug localedata/16777] pl_PL: incorrect thousands separator in locale

[maiku.fabian at gmail dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=16777

Mike FABIAN <maiku.fabian at gmail dot com> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 CC|                            |digitalfreak@lingonborough.
                   |                            |com

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[Bug localedata/16777] pl_PL: incorrect thousands separator in locale

[maiku.fabian at gmail dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=16777

--- Comment #5 from Mike FABIAN <maiku.fabian at gmail dot com> ---
Created attachment 10537
  --> https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=10537&action=edit
0001-Use-U-202F-NARROW-NO-BREAK-SPACE-as-thousands-separa.patch

The patch I used to fix the problem.

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