[Bug localedata/3768] en_GB should have am/pm representation

[Bug localedata/3768] en_GB should have am/pm representation

[sourceware.org at stellar dot eclipse.co.uk]

http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3768

Stroller <sourceware.org at stellar dot eclipse.co.uk> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
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             Status|RESOLVED                    |REOPENED
                 CC|                            |sourceware.org at stellar
                   |                            |dot eclipse.co.uk
         Resolution|WONTFIX                     |

--- Comment #5 from Stroller <sourceware.org at stellar dot eclipse.co.uk> 2012-03-29 04:38:22 UTC ---
Jon Mitchell is totally correct in stating that the common time representation
here is 12-hour.

I spoke to someone on IRC a while back who therefore advised me to reopen this
bug. Sorry I've only just got around to doing so.

Although it is uncited, Wikipedia supports this: 
    "The 12-hour notation is still widely used in ordinary life, written
    communication and displays, and continues to be used in spoken
    language. The 24-hour notation is used in timetables and in some
    computer applications;"
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_and_time_notation_in_United_Kingdom

We can find 12-hour usage on numerous British websites, government and
otherwise:

   "The forum begins at 6.30pm and will finish no later than 8.30pm."
       - http://www.rother.gov.uk/article/6554/Question-Time-for-New-Look-Forum

    "This means as an adult worker, if you finish work at 8.00 pm on Monday
    you should not start work until 7.00 am on Tuesday."
       -
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/WorkingHoursAndTimeOff/DG_10029451

in Acts of Parliament:

    "premises licences and club premises certificates granted by the
    authority, and temporary event notices given to the authority, shall
    not have effect to the extent that they authorise the sale of alcohol
    between 3am and 6am,"
      - Section 172A (2) (a) of
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/17/section/172A

And in major newspapers:

   Timestamps in this article - 5:22pm, 4:47pm, 4:38pm &c -
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/28/supreme-court-health-care-live?newsfeed=true

    "He puts a first-time visor on the handicap debutant Parque Atlantico
    in the last at Kempton tonight at 8.40pm."
      -
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2012/mar/28/live-racing-wednesday-march-28-2012?newsfeed=true

    "Most stressful time of day is 5.55pm. Bath time - or 7.15pm - was the
    second most stressful point in a mum's day, with the kids' bedtime at
    8.45pm coming third."
      -
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/8588919/Most-stressful-time-of-day-is-5.55pm.html

More examples: http://www.google.com/search?q=time%20am%20OR%20pm%20site:uk

The UK is the same as the US (and New Zealand, bug 2473) in this regard - if
the user is calling `date %r`, the user is explicitly requesting the date in
12-hour format (as per the manpage) and thus an AM or PM indicator is
necessitated. If the US LOCALE has AM and PM, so should the British.

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[Bug localedata/3768] en_GB should have am/pm representation

[sourceware.org at stellar dot eclipse.co.uk]

http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3768

--- Comment #6 from Stroller <sourceware.org at stellar dot eclipse.co.uk> 2012-04-04 14:40:09 UTC ---
Additionally: it seems like some BSDs (i.e. Mac OS X) and downstream Linux
distros that already patch for this use a lowercase am / pm in the British
locale:

$ LC_TIME=en_US.UTF-8 date +%r
03:38:02 PM
$ LC_TIME=en_GB.UTF-8 date +%r
03:38:08 pm
$ 

Personally, I prefer this. It seems more "right" to me, although I don't have
an authority on that.

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[Bug localedata/3768] en_GB should have am/pm representation

[sourceware at slated dot org]

http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3768

--- Comment #8 from Homer <sourceware at slated dot org> 2012-04-12 02:38:34 UTC ---
Created attachment 6338
  --> http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=6338
glibc-all-ampm.patch (GB locales)

Patch originally submitted 6 years ago by Jakub Jelink @ Red Hat, and accepted
and used by various distros, including Debian (attached).

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[Bug localedata/3768] en_GB should have am/pm representation

[sourceware at slated dot org]

http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3768

Homer <sourceware at slated dot org> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
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                 CC|                            |sourceware at slated dot
                   |                            |org
           See Also|                            |https://bugs.gentoo.org/sho
                   |                            |w_bug.cgi?id=411645

--- Comment #7 from Homer <sourceware at slated dot org> 2012-04-12 02:27:21 UTC ---
Not sure where Drepper got this weird notion that am/pm is not "current
every-day use" in the UK. AFAIK nobody except the military uses 24 hour
notation at all over here. Certainly nobody I know personally ever uses it.

Moreover, this feature should not be withheld for biased, ideological reasons.
This is purely a matter of individual preferences, and should not be an
"official" policy that forbids users from seeing the time in their preferred
format, especially when that format is the de facto format for their culture,
as it is here in the UK.

I find the "reasoning" for withholding this feature offensive and nonsensical,
not to mention factually bogus.

Now that Drepper has left the building, please let's just fix this and move on.

Downstream bug (Gentoo) attached.

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[Bug localedata/3768] en_GB should have am/pm representation

[sourceware at slated dot org]

http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3768

--- Comment #10 from Homer <sourceware at slated dot org> 2012-04-12 03:05:31 UTC ---
Just to confirm that Jakub's patch works as expected.

Patched:
% LC_TIME=en_US.UTF-8 date +%r  
04:02:14 AM
% LC_TIME=en_GB.UTF-8 date +%r    
4:02:21 am BST

Unpatched:
% LC_TIME=en_US.UTF-8 date +%r
04:03:46 AM
% LC_TIME=en_GB.UTF-8 date +%r  
04:03:52

+1 submit

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[Bug localedata/3768] en_GB should have am/pm representation

[vapier at gentoo dot org]

http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3768

Mike Frysinger <vapier at gentoo dot org> changed:

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                 CC|                            |vapier at gentoo dot org

--- Comment #11 from Mike Frysinger <vapier at gentoo dot org> 2012-04-12 04:07:59 UTC ---
http://sourceware.org/ml/libc-alpha/2012-04/msg00423.html

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[Bug localedata/3768] en_GB should have am/pm representation

[sourceware at slated dot org]

http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3768

Homer <sourceware at slated dot org> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
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                URL|                            |http://lists.debian.org/deb
                   |                            |ian-glibc/2011/05/msg00278.
                   |                            |html

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[Bug localedata/3768] en_GB should have am/pm representation

[pasky at ucw dot cz]

http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3768

Petr Baudis <pasky at ucw dot cz> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
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             Status|REOPENED                    |RESOLVED
                 CC|                            |pasky at ucw dot cz
         Resolution|                            |FIXED

--- Comment #12 from Petr Baudis <pasky at ucw dot cz> 2012-04-13 16:58:17 UTC ---
Patch submitted to mailing list committed based on the mailing list discussion,
thank you!

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[Bug localedata/3768] en_GB should have am/pm representation

[pasky at suse dot cz]

------- Additional Comments From pasky at suse dot cz  2009-03-29 12:17 -------
*** Bug 9867 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

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[Bug localedata/3768] en_GB should have am/pm representation

[txe_stc at yahoo dot com]

------- Additional Comments From txe_stc at yahoo dot com  2007-09-04 13:13 -------
Argh. Yes, my bad to have taken my eye off of this.

It seems Debian and RedHat both patch this at the distribution level to add an
AM/PM representation. I guess this is why no-one else is asking for it:

http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=240901

They seem to have gone for

am_pm="AM;PM"
t_fmt_ampm="%l:%M:%S %P %Z"

which differs from what I suggested.

However your policy of "It's current every-day use that counts." I don't think I
can argue with. It would be nice to pick 12hour as an option, but agree that's
just a nice to have.

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[Bug localedata/3768] en_GB should have am/pm representation

[drepper at redhat dot com]

------- Additional Comments From drepper at redhat dot com  2007-08-25 05:40 -------
No reply in 3+ months.  Closing.

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http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3768

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[Bug localedata/3768] en_GB should have am/pm representation

[drepper at redhat dot com]

------- Additional Comments From drepper at redhat dot com  2007-05-15 07:45 -------
I find it hard to believe that this is really a prevalent notation.  We ar
eusing the current one for 10+ years and nobody else complaint.  Yes schools
have to teach it (just like they teach the metric system in the US and still
nobody uses it).  And Parliament is always special with traditions.  The am/pm
format should not be defined if at any point somebody used it.  It's current
every-day use that counts.

Even if the format were in common use, the proposed format is obviously wrong. 
Both examples you cite are using a dot instead of a colon to separate the hours
and minutes.

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