Re: Re: SDL Interface Development

Re: Re: SDL Interface Development

[ejessen]

I concur on the dependencies.
I have no problem with pulling in lots of 3rd party code, BUT
1. it should be OS-independent
2. it should be included inside the Xconq build.  Otherwise, you can spend forever just trying to get
everything to compile clean, before you can start any
work.  You've raised the barrier to entry so high, that
nobody but the most fanatical will attempt to maintain
the code.  Which means the program will die out when
the fanatics move on.

Erik
> 
> From: Skeezics Boondoggle <skeezics@q7.com>
> Date: 2004/10/31 Sun AM 03:52:32 EST
> To: xconq7@sources.redhat.com
> Subject: Re: SDL Interface Development
> 
> On Sat, 30 Oct 2004, Eric McDonald wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> >    A while back ago, we considered SDL_Pango for handling of 
> > international and exotic text. Pango (which SDL_Pango obviously 
> > requires) is not without dependencies either. So I think point (2) is 
> > something worth considering. How much should Xconq be able to stand 
> > alone? And how much should we cave in to rapid development at the 
> > expense of raising the hacker "cost of entry", so to speak?
> [snip]
> 
> Just to chime in from the Solaris camp - this all sounds great, as long as
> the dependent libraries are reasonably cross-platform and the build for
> non-Linux/Windows machines (is that the diplomatic way to say "real Unix"  
> machines? :-) doesn't become untenable.  I'd say if it's smaller/easier to
> bundle those libs with the Xconq sources and build them all in one shot,
> that's fine, or we'd need to make sure that the configure script can
> easily find them (or be told where to find them) already installed on the
> system.
> 
> Having lived through the years when "all the world's a Vax", then the
> period of "all the world's a Sun" and now "all the world's the hacked up
> one-off peculiar Linux box on my desk", I'm just *reeeeeally* tired of
> constantly screwing around with and patching configure scripts that assume
> too much.  That's my only worry with using third party libs that come with 
> a mile-long dependency list...
> 
> Also, I've been remiss in building xconq from the latest CVS snapshots for
> Solaris... I think something was broken the last time I tried it... oh
> geez, almost a year ago!  (November 15th, 2003)  I should grab the latest
> sources and see if the existing stuff still builds on Solaris before
> griping about possible future changes, eh? :-)
> 
> -- Chris
> 
> 

Re: SDL Interface Development

[D. Cooper Stevenson]

On Sunday 31 October 2004 16:28, ejessen@adelphia.net wrote:
> [not including the libraries in the build raises] the barrier to entry so 
high, that 
> nobody but the most fanatical will attempt to maintain
> the code.  Which means the program will die out when
> the fanatics move on.

Insightful. 

On Sunday 31 October 2004 08:52, Skeezics Boondoggle wrote:
> Just to chime in from the Solaris camp - this all sounds great, as long as
> the dependent libraries are reasonably cross-platform and the build for
> non-Linux/Windows machines (is that the diplomatic way to say "real Unix"
> machines? :-) doesn't become untenable.

Absolutely. 

Here's a quick 'fact check' listing the library dependancies and weather or 
not they currently support Linux, Sun, and Windows platforms:

Libary           Linux         Mac 9        Mac OSX        Sun        Windows
------           -----         ------      ---------      -----      ---------

libsdl             X              X            X            X           X
paragui            X              X            X            ?           X
FreeType           X              X            X            X           X
Zlib               X              ?            ?            ?           X
libpng             X              X            X            X           X
SDL_Image          X              X            X            X           X
Expat              X              X            X            X           X
OpenGL             X              X            X            X           X

I was conservative. I'm pretty confident that Zlib is supported by Sun :). 
Overall my impression is that ParaGUI is careful about cross-platform 
compatibility.

Please modify as necessary.

-Coop

Re: SDL Interface Development

[Lincoln Peters]

On Sun, 2004-10-31 at 09:48, D. Cooper Stevenson wrote:
> On Sunday 31 October 2004 16:28, ejessen@adelphia.net wrote:
> > [not including the libraries in the build raises] the barrier to entry so 
> high, that 
> > nobody but the most fanatical will attempt to maintain
> > the code.  Which means the program will die out when
> > the fanatics move on.
> 
> Insightful. 
> 
> On Sunday 31 October 2004 08:52, Skeezics Boondoggle wrote:
> > Just to chime in from the Solaris camp - this all sounds great, as long as
> > the dependent libraries are reasonably cross-platform and the build for
> > non-Linux/Windows machines (is that the diplomatic way to say "real Unix"
> > machines? :-) doesn't become untenable.
> 
> Absolutely. 
> 
> Here's a quick 'fact check' listing the library dependancies and weather or 
> not they currently support Linux, Sun, and Windows platforms:
> 
> Libary           Linux         Mac 9        Mac OSX        Sun        Windows
> ------           -----         ------      ---------      -----      ---------
> 
> libsdl             X              X            X            X           X
> paragui            X              X            X            ?           X
> FreeType           X              X            X            X           X
> Zlib               X              ?            ?            ?           X
> libpng             X              X            X            X           X
> SDL_Image          X              X            X            X           X
> Expat              X              X            X            X           X
> OpenGL             X              X            X            X           X

zlib is available on MacOS X, although one might need to download it via
Fink (the MacOS X port of apt-get).

---
Lincoln Peters
<sampln@sbcglobal.net>

You will gain money by an immoral action.

Re: SDL Interface Development

[Eric McDonald]

Hi Erik, it's been a while since you've been heard from,

> 1. it should be OS-independent

All of it is.

> 2. it should be included inside the Xconq build.  Otherwise, you can spend forever just trying to get
> everything to compile clean, before you can start any
> work. 

Possibly. I think that between providing installers for precompiled 
binaries for MinGW32 and providing source RPM's for Linux and other 
platforms, there may not be a need to bundle everything together. But, 
if you, Skeezics, and others would prefer a giant source tarball with 
all the dep config scripts slaved to Xconq's one configure Script to 
rule them all, I will consider it. I would still prefer to provide the 
packages separately. Among other things, it will help to foster good 
will with the developers of the various prereq software components.

> You've raised the barrier to entry so high, that
> nobody but the most fanatical will attempt to maintain
> the code.  Which means the program will die out when
> the fanatics move on.

As I mentioned in earlier postings, it is not necessary to always keep 
up with the latest and greatest. It is enough to set a standard as far 
as the prereqs go, and then adhere to that standard. Upgrades to the 
prereq packages only need to be done occasionally.

Eric