[OT] RE: change in behavior of make from 3.80 to 3.81

[OT] RE: change in behavior of make from 3.80 to 3.81

[Dave Korn]

On 14 August 2006 23:18, Joachim Achtzehnter wrote:

[  Thread properly TITTTL'd.  Bock-bock-bock-baaaaaaawwwk!  ]

> Dave Korn wrote:
> 
>> Every single day for the past month, we have had at least
>> seventy-four[*] identical duplicate redundant reports of this...
> 
> Have you considered that there just might be a significant message hidden
> in this from your user community?

  It's *my* user community?  Wow!  Does that mean I can take them home and
hang them on the wall?

  However, to answer your question: no.  Since every single one of those posts
presented itself as "wow, look what I just discovered, what's happening?", and
not a single one began with "Even though dos paths are no longer supported
here's a reason why I think they should stay", I don't think you can
reasonably infer a message from that, except that either an awful lot of
people are not in posession of even the most elementary search skills, or that
there are an awful lot of people who are so passive-consumption oriented that
the thought of trying to look up some information doesn't even occur to them
and their first thought is "Get someone else to tell me what to do".  Or both.

>  As somebody who was involved in one of
> these earlier threads, let me also mention that to every one of these
> seventy-four[*] reports you see on the mailing list there is another user
> who expresses his annoyance with these changes in private emails, having
> given up on posting such things because of the hostile reaction one gets
> these days for expressing views about requirements that certain people here
> don't like.

  Ah, the classic old the-lurkers-support-me-in-email argument.  As used by
usenet cranks since 1994 to justify posting the same whinge on the topic of
"how everyone should do things the way I say they should because it's just
obviously right" over and over again, on the grounds that they're only saying
it once for themselves, and otherwise speaking up for all the poor little
people who are too shy and timid to speak for themselves.  Wow, you complete
knight in white shining armour, you, you champion of the people.

  Or not.  You may or may not have had conversations in private mail, but that
doesn't make you some kind of democratic representative.  Get elected, then
we'll talk about what your constituency wants.

> If this implies that Cygwin maintainers generally "just don't care" about
> their users anymore perhaps those users will have to band together some day
> and consider creating a Cygwin fork...

  No, that implies you are fraudulently projecting a single case and assuming
it represents an entire set of people in an attempt to construct a specious
argument.

  As I pointed out initially, I am not the make maintainer, nor a redhat
employee, nor a cygwin project member.  I'm here of my own accord, to get help
with my cygwin problems, help other people solve theirs, post the odd bugfix,
and so on, and I have no responsibility or duty of care toward *you*, and am
fully entitled to get bored with people posting the exact same posts over and
over and over and over again.


    cheers,
      DaveK
-- 
Can't think of a witty .sigline today....

RE: change in behavior of make from 3.80 to 3.81

[Gary R. Van Sickle]

[TTTTLTLLLT'ing this to the proper list, unlike some Korns et al I could
mention]

> From: Joachim Achtzehnter
> 
> Dave Korn wrote:
> 
> > Every single day for the past month, we have had at least 
> > seventy-four[*] identical duplicate redundant reports of this...
> 
> Have you considered that there just might be a significant 
> message hidden in this from your user community? As somebody 
> who was involved in one of these earlier threads, let me also 
> mention that to every one of these seventy-four[*] reports 
> you see on the mailing list there is another user who 
> expresses his annoyance with these changes in private emails, 
> having given up on posting such things because of the hostile 
> reaction one gets these days for expressing views about 
> requirements that certain people here don't like.
> 

"These days"?  You're new 'round these parts, huh?

> Christopher Faylor wrote:
> 
> > I just don't care about MS-DOS paths.
> 
> Fair enough, you've made that pretty clear in previous posts.
> 

It's kind of sad really: There used to be a time when Cygwin was more "POSIX
And Windows Living In Relative Harmony" than "Any flavor as long as it's
Linux".

> > If I am somehow conveying the impression that there is some 
> threshold 
> > of affected users which will cause me to spend my own time 
> trying to 
> > modify make, let me make it clear - that is not the case.
> 
> If this implies that Cygwin maintainers generally "just don't 
> care" about their users anymore perhaps those users will have 
> to band together some day and consider creating a Cygwin fork...
> 

Where do you think MinGW came from?

> Joachim
> 

-- 
Gary R. Van Sickle

RE: change in behavior of make from 3.80 to 3.81

[Dave Korn]

On 15 August 2006 02:18, Gary R. Van Sickle wrote:

> [TTTTLTLLLT'ing this to the proper list, unlike some Korns et al I could
> mention]

  Way ahead of you, Gaaaar-eeee!

> 
> Where do you think MinGW came from?
> 

  Everyone knows where MinGWs come from.  The hippo brings them.


    cheers,
      DaveK
-- 
Can't think of a witty .sigline today....

Re: change in behavior of make from 3.80 to 3.81

[Christopher Faylor]

On Mon, Aug 14, 2006 at 08:18:23PM -0500, Gary R. Van Sickle wrote:
>[TTTTLTLLLT'ing this to the proper list, unlike some Korns et al I
>could mention]

Chuckle.

http://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin-talk/2006-q3/msg00159.html

cgf

RE: change in behavior of make from 3.80 to 3.81

[Gary R. Van Sickle]

> From: Dave Korn
> To: 'arf arf arf woof woof'

Ah, dude, seriously: you're barking like a dog now.  Not a good sign.

> 
> On 15 August 2006 02:18, Gary R. Van Sickle wrote:
> 
> > [TTTTLTLLLT'ing this to the proper list, unlike some Korns et al I 
> > could mention]
> 
>   Way ahead of you, Gaaaar-eeee!
> 

Wha-huh?:
http://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin/2006-08/msg00547.html

Not good Korns, not good!  That's one!

> > 
> > Where do you think MinGW came from?
> > 
> 
>   Everyone knows where MinGWs come from.  The hippo brings them.
> 

Hehe, yeah, it *is* cute when they still belive in Hippoclaus.

> 
>     cheers,
>       DaveK
> --
> Can't think of a witty .sigline today....
> 

-- 
Gary R. Van Sickle
 

RE: change in behavior of make from 3.80 to 3.81

[Gary R. Van Sickle]

> From: Christopher Faylor
> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 8:29 PM
> To: The Cygwin-Talk Maiming List
> Subject: Re: change in behavior of make from 3.80 to 3.81
> 
> On Mon, Aug 14, 2006 at 08:18:23PM -0500, Gary R. Van Sickle wrote:
> >[TTTTLTLLLT'ing this to the proper list, unlike some Korns et al I 
> >could mention]
> 
> Chuckle.
> 
> http://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin-talk/2006-q3/msg00159.html
> 
> cgf

Alright Chris, alright, you can be the "et al":
http://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin/2006-08/msg00528.html

-- 
Gary R. Van Sickle
 

RE: change in behavior of make from 3.80 to 3.81

[Dave Korn]

On 15 August 2006 02:32, Gary R. Van Sickle wrote:

>> From: Dave Korn
>> To: 'arf arf arf woof woof'
> 
> Ah, dude, seriously: you're barking like a dog now.  Not a good sign.
> 

  This entire conversation is barking.  I'm just honest about it!

>> 
>> On 15 August 2006 02:18, Gary R. Van Sickle wrote:
>> 
>>> [TTTTLTLLLT'ing this to the proper list, unlike some Korns et al I
>>> could mention]
>> 
>>   Way ahead of you, Gaaaar-eeee!
>> 
> 
> Wha-huh?:
> http://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin/2006-08/msg00547.html
> 
> Not good Korns, not good!  That's one!

  I plead time-travel!  Hah!  Get out of that one!  (Don't bother, you already
will have didn'ted!)

> 
>>> 
>>> Where do you think MinGW came from?
>>> 
>> 
>>   Everyone knows where MinGWs come from.  The hippo brings them.
>> 
> 
> Hehe, yeah, it *is* cute when they still belive in Hippoclaus.
> 

  Believe in him?  How could anyone doubt?

  Man, it takes almost the whole rest of the year just to get his fat ass
unstuck back out of the chimney!


    cheers,
      DaveK
-- 
Can't think of a witty .sigline today....

RE: change in behavior of make from 3.80 to 3.81

[Dave Korn]

On 15 August 2006 02:35, Gary R. Van Sickle wrote:

>> From: Christopher Faylor
>> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 8:29 PM
>> To: The Cygwin-Talk Maiming List
>> Subject: Re: change in behavior of make from 3.80 to 3.81
>> 
>> On Mon, Aug 14, 2006 at 08:18:23PM -0500, Gary R. Van Sickle wrote:
>>> [TTTTLTLLLT'ing this to the proper list, unlike some Korns et al I
>>> could mention]
>> 
>> Chuckle.
>> 
>> http://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin-talk/2006-q3/msg00159.html
>> 
>> cgf
> 
> Alright Chris, alright, you can be the "et al":
> http://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin/2006-08/msg00528.html

  http://tinyurl.com/qh6nr !


    cheers,
      DaveK
-- 
Can't think of a witty .sigline today....

RE: change in behavior of make from 3.80 to 3.81

[Igor Peshansky]

On Tue, 15 Aug 2006, Dave Korn wrote:

> On 15 August 2006 02:32, Gary R. Van Sickle wrote:
>
> >> From: Dave Korn
> >> To: 'arf arf arf woof woof'
> >
> > Ah, dude, seriously: you're barking like a dog now.  Not a good sign.
>
>   This entire conversation is barking.  I'm just honest about it!
>
> >> On 15 August 2006 02:18, Gary R. Van Sickle wrote:
> >>
> >>> [TTTTLTLLLT'ing this to the proper list, unlike some Korns et al I
> >>> could mention]
> >>
> >>   Way ahead of you, Gaaaar-eeee!
> >
> > Wha-huh?:
> > http://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin/2006-08/msg00547.html
> >
> > Not good Korns, not good!  That's one!
>
>   I plead time-travel!  Hah!  Get out of that one!  (Don't bother, you already
> will have didn'ted!)
>
> >>> Where do you think MinGW came from?
> >>
> >>   Everyone knows where MinGWs come from.  The hippo brings them.
> >
> > Hehe, yeah, it *is* cute when they still belive in Hippoclaus.
>
>   Believe in him?  How could anyone doubt?
>
>   Man, it takes almost the whole rest of the year just to get his fat ass
> unstuck back out of the chimney!

That's because somebody's chimneys are too narrow! (a liberal mis-quoting
of AA Milne).
	Igor
-- 
				http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/
      |\      _,,,---,,_	    pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu | igor@watson.ibm.com
ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_		Igor Peshansky, Ph.D. (name changed!)
     |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'		old name: Igor Pechtchanski
    '---''(_/--'  `-'\_) fL	a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-.  Meow!

"Las! je suis sot... -Mais non, tu ne l'es pas, puisque tu t'en rends compte."
"But no -- you are no fool; you call yourself a fool, there's proof enough in
that!" -- Rostand, "Cyrano de Bergerac"

RE: change in behavior of make from 3.80 to 3.81

[Gary R. Van Sickle]

> From: Dave Korn
> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 9:36 PM
> To: 'only 325 hippoing days until christmas'
> Subject: RE: change in behavior of make from 3.80 to 3.81
> 
> On 15 August 2006 02:32, Gary R. Van Sickle wrote:
> 
> >> From: Dave Korn
> >> To: 'arf arf arf woof woof'
> > 
> > Ah, dude, seriously: you're barking like a dog now.  Not a 
> good sign.
> > 
> 
>   This entire conversation is barking.  I'm just honest about it!
> 

Mmm, no, it looks like it's mainly you barking.

> >> 
> >> On 15 August 2006 02:18, Gary R. Van Sickle wrote:
> >> 
> >>> [TTTTLTLLLT'ing this to the proper list, unlike some 
> Korns et al I 
> >>> could mention]
> >> 
> >>   Way ahead of you, Gaaaar-eeee!
> >> 
> > 
> > Wha-huh?:
> > http://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin/2006-08/msg00547.html
> > 
> > Not good Korns, not good!  That's one!
> 
>   I plead time-travel!  Hah!  Get out of that one!  (Don't 
> bother, you already will have didn'ted!)
> 

Pish posh.  I shall simply get in the Cygwin Time Machine, reverse the
polarity of the neutron flow, and...

...oh dear...

...now I'm back in the halcyon days of B20.  Well, if anybody needs a copy
of The One True Cygwin, let me know and I'll bring back a few copies.  IIRC,
it had support for DOS paths in makefiles for some reason.

> > 
> >>> 
> >>> Where do you think MinGW came from?
> >>> 
> >> 
> >>   Everyone knows where MinGWs come from.  The hippo brings them.
> >> 
> > 
> > Hehe, yeah, it *is* cute when they still belive in Hippoclaus.
> > 
> 
>   Believe in him?  How could anyone doubt?
> 

Yeuh-oh!  Nevermind Korns!  (aside: Yes... but let him dream. ;-))

>   Man, it takes almost the whole rest of the year just to get 
> his fat ass unstuck back out of the chimney!
          ^^^

Ouch.  That's two.

Or, wait, was potty mouth ok?  Oh dear oh dear, it is *ever* so difficult to
keep all these rules and regulations straight!

> 
>     cheers,
>       DaveK
> --
> Can't think of a witty .sigline today....
> 

-- 
Gary R. Van Sickle
 

RE: change in behavior of make from 3.80 to 3.81

[Gary R. Van Sickle]

> From: Dave Korn
> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 9:41 PM
> To: 'no, i'm spartacusbert'
> Subject: RE: change in behavior of make from 3.80 to 3.81
> 
> On 15 August 2006 02:35, Gary R. Van Sickle wrote:
> 
> >> From: Christopher Faylor
> >> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 8:29 PM
> >> To: The Cygwin-Talk Maiming List
> >> Subject: Re: change in behavior of make from 3.80 to 3.81
> >> 
> >> On Mon, Aug 14, 2006 at 08:18:23PM -0500, Gary R. Van Sickle wrote:
> >>> [TTTTLTLLLT'ing this to the proper list, unlike some 
> Korns et al I 
> >>> could mention]
> >> 
> >> Chuckle.
> >> 
> >> http://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin-talk/2006-q3/msg00159.html
> >> 
> >> cgf
> > 
> > Alright Chris, alright, you can be the "et al":
> > http://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin/2006-08/msg00528.html
> 
>   http://tinyurl.com/qh6nr !

http://tinyurl.com/rce3b .

>     cheers,
>       DaveK
> --
> Can't think of a witty .sigline today....
> 

-- 
Gary R. Van Sickle
 

RE: change in behavior of make from 3.80 to 3.81

[Dave Korn]

On 15 August 2006 05:06, Gary R. Van Sickle wrote:


>>   Man, it takes almost the whole rest of the year just to get
>> his fat ass unstuck back out of the chimney!
>           ^^^
> 
> Ouch.  That's two.
> 
> Or, wait, was potty mouth ok?  Oh dear oh dear, it is *ever* so difficult to
> keep all these rules and regulations straight!

  Oh, don't be such an ass, Gary.  You're perfectly happy to use equally mild
language yourself on occasion!

    cheers,
      DaveK
-- 
Can't think of a witty .sigline today....

RE: change in behavior of make from 3.80 to 3.81

[Dave Korn]

On 15 August 2006 05:16, Gary R. Van Sickle wrote:

>> From: Dave Korn
>> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 9:41 PM
>> To: 'no, i'm spartacusbert'
>> Subject: RE: change in behavior of make from 3.80 to 3.81
>> 
>> On 15 August 2006 02:35, Gary R. Van Sickle wrote:
>> 
>>>> From: Christopher Faylor
>>>> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 8:29 PM
>>>> To: The Cygwin-Talk Maiming List
>>>> Subject: Re: change in behavior of make from 3.80 to 3.81
>>>> 
>>>> On Mon, Aug 14, 2006 at 08:18:23PM -0500, Gary R. Van Sickle wrote:
>>>>> [TTTTLTLLLT'ing this to the proper list, unlike some Korns et al I
>>>>> could mention]
>>>> 
>>>> Chuckle.
>>>> 
>>>> http://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin-talk/2006-q3/msg00159.html
>>>> 
>>>> cgf
>>> 
>>> Alright Chris, alright, you can be the "et al":
>>> http://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin/2006-08/msg00528.html
>> 
>>   http://tinyurl.com/qh6nr !
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/rce3b .


  Ewww!  Gary, how *could* you?  That's the most disgusting thing I've ever
unsuspectingly clicked on!  Far worse even than goatse!  I'm just off to scrub
my eyeballs out with bleach and glasspaper!


    cheers,
      DaveK
-- 
Can't think of a witty .sigline today....

RE: change in behavior of make from 3.80 to 3.81

[Igor Peshansky]

On Mon, 14 Aug 2006, Gary R. Van Sickle wrote:

> > From: Dave Korn
> > Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 9:41 PM
> > To: 'no, i'm spartacusbert'
> > Subject: RE: change in behavior of make from 3.80 to 3.81
> >
> > On 15 August 2006 02:35, Gary R. Van Sickle wrote:
> >
> > >> From: Christopher Faylor
> > >> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 8:29 PM
> > >> To: The Cygwin-Talk Maiming List
> > >> Subject: Re: change in behavior of make from 3.80 to 3.81
> > >>
> > >> On Mon, Aug 14, 2006 at 08:18:23PM -0500, Gary R. Van Sickle wrote:
> > >>> [TTTTLTLLLT'ing this to the proper list, unlike some
> > Korns et al I
> > >>> could mention]
> > >>
> > >> Chuckle.
> > >>
> > >> http://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin-talk/2006-q3/msg00159.html
> > >>
> > >> cgf
> > >
> > > Alright Chris, alright, you can be the "et al":
> > > http://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin/2006-08/msg00528.html
> >
> >   http://tinyurl.com/qh6nr !
>
> http://tinyurl.com/rce3b .

"It's getting obscuriouser and obscuriouser..." (a liberal mis-quoting of
Lewis Carroll).
	Igor
-- 
				http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/
      |\      _,,,---,,_	    pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu | igor@watson.ibm.com
ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_		Igor Peshansky, Ph.D. (name changed!)
     |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'		old name: Igor Pechtchanski
    '---''(_/--'  `-'\_) fL	a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-.  Meow!

"Las! je suis sot... -Mais non, tu ne l'es pas, puisque tu t'en rends compte."
"But no -- you are no fool; you call yourself a fool, there's proof enough in
that!" -- Rostand, "Cyrano de Bergerac"

RE: change in behavior of make from 3.80 to 3.81

[Igor Peshansky]

On Tue, 15 Aug 2006, Dave Korn wrote:

> On 15 August 2006 05:06, Gary R. Van Sickle wrote:
>
> >>   Man, it takes almost the whole rest of the year just to get
> >> his fat ass unstuck back out of the chimney!
> >           ^^^
> >
> > Ouch.  That's two.
> >
> > Or, wait, was potty mouth ok?  Oh dear oh dear, it is *ever* so
> > difficult to keep all these rules and regulations straight!
>
>   Oh, don't be such an ass, Gary.  You're perfectly happy to use equally
> mild language yourself on occasion!

There was a young girl from Madras,
And she had a remarkable ass.
It wasn't round and pink
(As you might think) --
It was gray, had long ears, and ate grass.
	Igor
-- 
				http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/
      |\      _,,,---,,_	    pechtcha@cs.nyu.edu | igor@watson.ibm.com
ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_		Igor Peshansky, Ph.D. (name changed!)
     |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'		old name: Igor Pechtchanski
    '---''(_/--'  `-'\_) fL	a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-.  Meow!

"Las! je suis sot... -Mais non, tu ne l'es pas, puisque tu t'en rends compte."
"But no -- you are no fool; you call yourself a fool, there's proof enough in
that!" -- Rostand, "Cyrano de Bergerac"

Re: [OT] RE: change in behavior of make from 3.80 to 3.81

[mwoehlke]

Dave Korn wrote:
>   Or not.  You may or may not have had conversations in private mail, but that
> doesn't make you some kind of democratic representative.  Get elected, then
> we'll talk about what your constituency wants.

Wouldn't that be a republican representative? ;-)
(note: republican = absolutely nothing to do with political parties)

Anyway, he already lost my vote...

-- 
Matthew
Only Joe suffers from schizophrenia. The rest of us enjoy it.