dos telnet.exe not showing up with cygwin "ls"

dos telnet.exe not showing up with cygwin "ls"

[Andy]

I'm using telnet to log in to my modem for certain actions that can't be
done via its web interface.  The thread at
http://www.cygwin.com/ml/cygwin/2013-08/msg00124.html indicates that telnet
is normally in Inetutils, and if I don't see Inetutils when running the
cygwin Setup.exe, I should try another mirror.  I use
http://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/sourceware.org/pub/cygwin and switching
is not my favourite solution because in the past, using multiple mirrors led
to packages being spread over multiple folder trees.  If I want to replicate
my cygwin installation and packages onto another computer, having multiple
mirror folders makes it messy to create an install CD.

A much simpler solution seems to be to enable the DOS telnet.exe, which for
Windows 7 is described at
http://social.technet.microsoft.com/wiki/contents/articles/910.windows-7-enabling-telnet-client.aspx.
 However, I want to run the resulting c:\Windows\System32\telnet.exe from
cygwin rather than DOS so that I can capture the information using the
script command.  Unfortunately, telnet.exe does not seem to be visible to
cygwin.  That is, it shows up on Windows Explorer and when using DIR from
DOS, but not using "ls" from cygwin's bash.  I thought it might be related
to permissions, but the properties for the file show that it is readable and
executable by all.  How might this file be invisible to cygwin?


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Re: dos telnet.exe not showing up with cygwin "ls"

[Christopher Faylor]

On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 03:35:28AM +0000, Andy wrote:
>I'm using telnet to log in to my modem for certain actions that can't be
>done via its web interface.  The thread at
>http://www.cygwin.com/ml/cygwin/2013-08/msg00124.html indicates that telnet
>is normally in Inetutils, and if I don't see Inetutils when running the
>cygwin Setup.exe,

You aren't looking hard enough.  It's "inetutils" and it is included.

You can see it here: http://cygwin.com/packages/

cgf

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Re: dos telnet.exe not showing up with cygwin "ls"

[Andy]

Christopher Faylor <cgf-use-the-mailinglist-please <at> cygwin.com> writes:
>On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 03:35:28AM +0000, Andy wrote:
>>I'm using telnet to log in to my modem for certain actions that
>>can't be done via its web interface.  The thread at
>>http://www.cygwin.com/ml/cygwin/2013-08/msg00124.html indicates that
>>telnet is normally in Inetutils, and if I don't see Inetutils when
>>running the cygwin Setup.exe,
>
> You aren't looking hard enough.  It's "inetutils" and it is
> included.
>
> You can see it here: http://cygwin.com/packages/

Boy, I feel like an idiot.  Thanks, Chris, for that reality check.

You can't imagine what I was thinking.  (I can't believe it either).  I
equated packages to the categories in the cygwin Setup GUI.  And I did do a
search for telnet in the cygwn packages search, but of course, millions of
hits came up.  Then, when I ran into the thread about inetutils, it didn't
occur to me to go back to search for it.

I actually muscled through the problem using the Windows telnet and manual
copy and paste from the DOS window.  So the problem was no longer current
when I originally posted.  However, I described the (solved) problem to head
off questions of why I was poking around with the Windows telnet.exe.

The real question (I should have emphasized this in my original post) is how
a file can be invisible to cygwin, but not to Windows explorer or the DOS
shell.  It's a general question that goes beyond telnet.  The fact that this
is possible is (I think) something to be aware of because it means that what
you see using bash could very well be a low fidelity reflection of what's in
the underlying Windows file system.  I mean low fidelity in a relative sense
-- it means there's one more way for what's seen via bash to differ from the
underlying Windows file system.


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Re: dos telnet.exe not showing up with cygwin "ls"

[Larry Hall (Cygwin)]

On 04/18/2014 04:06 PM, Andy wrote:

<snip>

> The real question (I should have emphasized this in my original post) is how
> a file can be invisible to cygwin, but not to Windows explorer or the DOS
> shell.  It's a general question that goes beyond telnet.  The fact that this
> is possible is (I think) something to be aware of because it means that what
> you see using bash could very well be a low fidelity reflection of what's in
> the underlying Windows file system.  I mean low fidelity in a relative sense
> -- it means there's one more way for what's seen via bash to differ from the
> underlying Windows file system.

Can you clarify your question here a bit?  Are you using a 32-bit Cygwin
and confused by the fact that you don't see 64-bit stuff with it?  Forgive
me if I assumed too much about the issue you're seeing.

-- 
Larry

_____________________________________________________________________

A: Yes.
 > Q: Are you sure?
 >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation.
 >>> Q: Why is top posting annoying in email?

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Re: dos telnet.exe not showing up with cygwin "ls"

[Andy]

Larry Hall (Cygwin <reply-to-list-only-lh <at> cygwin.com> writes:
>On 04/18/2014 04:06 PM, Andy wrote:
>> The real question (I should have emphasized this in my original
>> post) is how a file can be invisible to cygwin, but not to Windows
>> explorer or the DOS shell.  It's a general question that goes
>> beyond telnet.  The fact that this is possible is (I think)
>> something to be aware of because it means that what you see using
>> bash could very well be a low fidelity reflection of what's in the
>> underlying Windows file system.  I mean low fidelity in a relative
>> sense -- it means there's one more way for what's seen via bash to
>> differ from the underlying Windows file system.
> 
> Can you clarify your question here a bit?  Are you using a 32-bit
> Cygwin and confused by the fact that you don't see 64-bit stuff with
> it?  Forgive me if I assumed too much about the issue you're seeing.

It's not really a problem at present, but the file
c:\Windows\System32\telnet.exe is not visible when I use cygwin's bash to cd
to that directory and issue the ls command.  I am using 32-bit cygwin.  I'm
not concerned about having access to functionality, as I have both cygwin's
and Windows' telnet.  I'm curious about the circumstance that allows a file
that is readable and executable by all to invisible to cygwin.  Just
something to be aware of when using cygwin, that some mechanism may cause
some of the Windows file system to be invisible.


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Re: dos telnet.exe not showing up with cygwin "ls"

[Larry Hall (Cygwin)]

On 04/18/2014 06:36 PM, Andy wrote:
> Larry Hall (Cygwin <reply-to-list-only-lh <at> cygwin.com> writes:
>> On 04/18/2014 04:06 PM, Andy wrote:
>>> The real question (I should have emphasized this in my original
>>> post) is how a file can be invisible to cygwin, but not to Windows
>>> explorer or the DOS shell.  It's a general question that goes
>>> beyond telnet.  The fact that this is possible is (I think)
>>> something to be aware of because it means that what you see using
>>> bash could very well be a low fidelity reflection of what's in the
>>> underlying Windows file system.  I mean low fidelity in a relative
>>> sense -- it means there's one more way for what's seen via bash to
>>> differ from the underlying Windows file system.
>>
>> Can you clarify your question here a bit?  Are you using a 32-bit
>> Cygwin and confused by the fact that you don't see 64-bit stuff with
>> it?  Forgive me if I assumed too much about the issue you're seeing.
>
> It's not really a problem at present, but the file
> c:\Windows\System32\telnet.exe is not visible when I use cygwin's bash to cd
> to that directory and issue the ls command.  I am using 32-bit cygwin.  I'm
> not concerned about having access to functionality, as I have both cygwin's
> and Windows' telnet.  I'm curious about the circumstance that allows a file
> that is readable and executable by all to invisible to cygwin.  Just
> something to be aware of when using cygwin, that some mechanism may cause
> some of the Windows file system to be invisible.

Sounds to me like you installed 32-bit Cygwin on a 64-bit Windows O/S.
If so, the issue you're seeing isn't Cygwin-specific.  All Windows 32-bit
apps would experience the same thing.  If you need Cygwin to see both 32
and 64-bit apps/dlls on 64-bit Windows, install 64-bit Cygwin.

<http://cygwin.com/setup-x86_64.exe>

-- 
Larry

_____________________________________________________________________

A: Yes.
 > Q: Are you sure?
 >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation.
 >>> Q: Why is top posting annoying in email?

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Re: dos telnet.exe not showing up with cygwin "ls"

[Andy]

Larry Hall (Cygwin <reply-to-list-only-lh <at> cygwin.com> writes:
>On 04/18/2014 06:36 PM, Andy wrote:
>> I'm curious about the circumstance that allows a file that is
>> readable and executable by all to invisible to cygwin.  Just
>> something to be aware of when using cygwin, that some mechanism may
>> cause some of the Windows file system to be invisible.
>
> Sounds to me like you installed 32-bit Cygwin on a 64-bit Windows
> O/S.  If so, the issue you're seeing isn't Cygwin-specific.  All
> Windows 32-bit apps would experience the same thing.  If you need
> Cygwin to see both 32 and 64-bit apps/dlls on 64-bit Windows, install
> 64-bit Cygwin.
> 
> <http://cygwin.com/setup-x86_64.exe>

Yes, I'm aware of the 64-bit version of cygwin.  I wasn't aware of this
hiccup between 32 and 64-bit apps (that the former can't see the latter). 
All the more reason to move to 64-bit sooner rather than later.  When I
installed the 32-bit cygwin, it was some time ago, when I was concerned
about compatibility with all things 32-bit.  Now that 64-bit is much more
prevalent, I the tides have shifted.

Thank you, Larry.


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Re: dos telnet.exe not showing up with cygwin "ls"

[Corinna Vinschen]

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On Apr 19 00:41, Andy wrote:
> Larry Hall (Cygwin <reply-to-list-only-lh <at> cygwin.com> writes:
> >On 04/18/2014 06:36 PM, Andy wrote:
> >> I'm curious about the circumstance that allows a file that is
> >> readable and executable by all to invisible to cygwin.  Just
> >> something to be aware of when using cygwin, that some mechanism may
> >> cause some of the Windows file system to be invisible.
> >
> > Sounds to me like you installed 32-bit Cygwin on a 64-bit Windows
> > O/S.  If so, the issue you're seeing isn't Cygwin-specific.  All
> > Windows 32-bit apps would experience the same thing.  If you need
> > Cygwin to see both 32 and 64-bit apps/dlls on 64-bit Windows, install
> > 64-bit Cygwin.
> > 
> > <http://cygwin.com/setup-x86_64.exe>
> 
> Yes, I'm aware of the 64-bit version of cygwin.  I wasn't aware of this
> hiccup between 32 and 64-bit apps (that the former can't see the latter). 
> All the more reason to move to 64-bit sooner rather than later.  When I
> installed the 32-bit cygwin, it was some time ago, when I was concerned
> about compatibility with all things 32-bit.  Now that 64-bit is much more
> prevalent, I the tides have shifted.

As Larry wrote, this has nothing to do with Cygwin:

64 bit apps on 64 bit find their stuff as usual in C:\Windows\System32.

For 32 bit apps on 64 bit Windows, all access to C:\Windows\System32
is redirected to the directory C:\Windows\SysWOW64, which is populated.
with the 32 bit WIndows tools and DLLs.

Since Vista you can also access the 64 bit C:\Windows\System32 from 32
bit apps, by using the fake path C:\Windows\Sysnative


HTH,
Corinna

-- 
Corinna Vinschen                  Please, send mails regarding Cygwin to
Cygwin Maintainer                 cygwin AT cygwin DOT com
Red Hat

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Re: dos telnet.exe not showing up with cygwin

[Andy]

Corinna Vinschen <corinna-cygwin <at> cygwin.com> writes:
> HTH, Corinna

Indeed it does.  Thanks.


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