Windows Subsystem for Linux starts to compete with Cygwin?

Windows Subsystem for Linux starts to compete with Cygwin?

[Evgeny Grin]

With latest Window Insider preview it's possible to run Linux command
from cmd, Windows commands from bash and even use input-output redirects!
https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/wsl/2016/10/19/windows-and-ubuntu-interoperability/
Seems that WSL also automatically translate \r\n<->\n.

There still no (official) way to run GUI with WSL.

Is Cygwin still better for something?

I understand that WSL and Cygwin are completely different approaches,
but from user perspective both are kind of sets of GNU/Linux commands
and both are using some intermediate layer (cygwin1.dll or LXSS).

-- 
Best Wishes,
Evgeny Grin

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Re: Windows Subsystem for Linux starts to compete with Cygwin?

[Duncan Roe]

On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 12:21:07AM +0300, Evgeny Grin wrote:
> With latest Window Insider preview it's possible to run Linux command
> from cmd, Windows commands from bash and even use input-output redirects!
> https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/wsl/2016/10/19/windows-and-ubuntu-interoperability/
> Seems that WSL also automatically translate \r\n<->\n.
>
> There still no (official) way to run GUI with WSL.
>
> Is Cygwin still better for something?
>
> I understand that WSL and Cygwin are completely different approaches,
> but from user perspective both are kind of sets of GNU/Linux commands
> and both are using some intermediate layer (cygwin1.dll or LXSS).
>
CMD.EXE has supported input and output redirection since forever (XP at least).
I suggest claiming it as a "new feature" is just marketing hype.

Cheers ... Duncan.

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Re: Windows Subsystem for Linux starts to compete with Cygwin?

[Evgeny Grin]

On 27.10.2016 1:57, Duncan Roe wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 12:21:07AM +0300, Evgeny Grin wrote:
>> With latest Window Insider preview it's possible to run Linux command
>> from cmd, Windows commands from bash and even use input-output redirects!
>> https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/wsl/2016/10/19/windows-and-ubuntu-interoperability/
>> Seems that WSL also automatically translate \r\n<->\n.
>>
> CMD.EXE has supported input and output redirection since forever (XP at least).
> I suggest claiming it as a "new feature" is just marketing hype.

CMD supports pipes from the first published version (Windows NT 3.1,
1993). But WSL was isolated: until now it was not possible to run Win32
programs from WSL's bash and was not possible to redirect Win32 output
to Linux application (and vice versa).

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Re: Windows Subsystem for Linux starts to compete with Cygwin?

[Erik Soderquist]

On Wed, Oct 26, 2016 at 6:57 PM, Duncan Roe wrote:
> CMD.EXE has supported input and output redirection since forever (XP at least).
> I suggest claiming it as a "new feature" is just marketing hype.

I believe the point was that WSL is no longer quite the completely
isolated island it started as.  In previous releases, there was no way
to get data between WSL and the rest of the Windows envoironment other
than files and network connections, and now CMD.EXE and bash on WSL
are able to share a common stdin/stdout/stderr.  It marks a step
forward for WSL usability, but still doesn't make it a replacement for
cygwin.

-- Erik

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Re: Windows Subsystem for Linux starts to compete with Cygwin?

[Andrey Repin]

Greetings, Evgeny Grin!

> With latest Window Insider preview it's possible to run Linux command
> from cmd, Windows commands from bash and even use input-output redirects!
> https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/wsl/2016/10/19/windows-and-ubuntu-interoperability/
> Seems that WSL also automatically translate \r\n<->\n.

Which will break a lot of tools not expecting this kind oh "help".

> There still no (official) way to run GUI with WSL.

> Is Cygwin still better for something?

Did they fixed the user mappings?

> I understand that WSL and Cygwin are completely different approaches,
> but from user perspective both are kind of sets of GNU/Linux commands
> and both are using some intermediate layer (cygwin1.dll or LXSS).

WSL requires Windows 10. End of story.


-- 
With best regards,
Andrey Repin
Thursday, October 27, 2016 16:20:53

Sorry for my terrible english...


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Re: Windows Subsystem for Linux starts to compete with Cygwin?

[Evgeny Grin]

On 27.10.2016 16:22, Andrey Repin wrote:
> Greetings, Evgeny Grin!
Privet, Андрей!

>> With latest Window Insider preview it's possible to run Linux command
>> from cmd, Windows commands from bash and even use input-output redirects!
>> https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/wsl/2016/10/19/windows-and-ubuntu-interoperability/
>> Seems that WSL also automatically translate \r\n<->\n.
> 
> Which will break a lot of tools not expecting this kind oh "help".

A lot of?
I don't know many... correction.. any GNU/Linux tools that works badly
with \n newlines.

>> Is Cygwin still better for something?
> 
> Did they fixed the user mappings?

I don't know as I didn't have any problem with it.

>> I understand that WSL and Cygwin are completely different approaches,
>> but from user perspective both are kind of sets of GNU/Linux commands
>> and both are using some intermediate layer (cygwin1.dll or LXSS).
> 
> WSL requires Windows 10. End of story.

Do you mean, that Windows itself is a problem?
Or version 10 of Windows is a problem? Anyway, all Windows users will
use Windows 10 (or successors) sooner or later.
So it's only the beginning of the story.

--
Best Wishes,
Evgeny

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Re: Windows Subsystem for Linux starts to compete with Cygwin?

[Andrey Repin]

Greetings, Evgeny Grin!

> On 27.10.2016 16:22, Andrey Repin wrote:
>> Greetings, Evgeny Grin!
> Privet, Андрей!

>>> With latest Window Insider preview it's possible to run Linux command
>>> from cmd, Windows commands from bash and even use input-output redirects!
>>> https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/wsl/2016/10/19/windows-and-ubuntu-interoperability/
>>> Seems that WSL also automatically translate \r\n<->\n.
>> 
>> Which will break a lot of tools not expecting this kind oh "help".

> A lot of?
> I don't know many... correction.. any GNU/Linux tools that works badly
> with \n newlines.

I was specifically referring to unexpected conversion, if you didn't notice.

>>> Is Cygwin still better for something?
>> 
>> Did they fixed the user mappings?

> I don't know as I didn't have any problem with it.

As long as you're only user, you won't see it, but try to use it in a
multiuser environment.
Previously, it was not possible.

>>> I understand that WSL and Cygwin are completely different approaches,
>>> but from user perspective both are kind of sets of GNU/Linux commands
>>> and both are using some intermediate layer (cygwin1.dll or LXSS).
>> 
>> WSL requires Windows 10. End of story.

> Do you mean, that Windows itself is a problem?
> Or version 10 of Windows is a problem? Anyway, all Windows users will
> use Windows 10 (or successors) sooner or later.
> So it's only the beginning of the story.

This is the same argument I hear over and over again. "suck it up, there's no
other choice".
There is other choice.



-- 
With best regards,
Andrey Repin
Friday, October 28, 2016 23:14:23

Sorry for my terrible english...

Re: Windows Subsystem for Linux starts to compete with Cygwin?

[L. A. Walsh]

Evgeny Grin wrote:
> A lot of?
> I don't know many... correction.. any GNU/Linux tools that works badly
> with \n newlines.
---
	All the tools in linux and current MacOS use
1 character to indicate end of line.  It is only windows that has
a problem.
 
>>> Is Cygwin still better for something?
---
	The GUI that you said was broken on WSL...
	Also, does WSL work in SafeMode?  Nope.
	Cygwin does.  Does WSL work in PE mode?  Nope.
	Cygwin does.  Damn, WSL is a pretty lame solution at this
point.


>> Did they fixed the user mappings?
> 
> I don't know as I didn't have any problem with it.
---
	Do you have a domain?  Oh, that's right MS, doesn't
support users having domains, and unless you have a Professional
version of Windows, they crippled the client to not work w/Domains.

	So does your copy of windows work in a domain? (a home
domain, BTW -- we aren't talking businesses).


> Do you mean, that Windows itself is a problem?
> Or version 10 of Windows is a problem? Anyway, all Windows users will
> use Windows 10 (or successors) sooner or later.
> So it's only the beginning of the story.
---
	You haven't been keeping in touch w/linux lately.
It's really that all users will use "systemd" -- oh... wait,
that's a reimplementation of the windows "services" daemon.  So,
you might be right... ;-)

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Re: Windows Subsystem for Linux starts to compete with Cygwin?

[Brian Inglis]

On 2016-10-29 00:13, L. A. Walsh wrote:
> Evgeny Grin wrote:
>> Do you mean, that Windows itself is a problem?
>> Or version 10 of Windows is a problem? Anyway, all Windows users will
>> use Windows 10 (or successors) sooner or later.
>> So it's only the beginning of the story.
>     You haven't been keeping in touch w/linux lately.
> It's really that all users will use "systemd" -- oh... wait,
> that's a reimplementation of the windows "services" daemon.  So,
> you might be right... ;-)

Contrarily W10 or Anniversary Update started splitting services out of their service hosts.
It's like providing utility services instead of using busybox or serviced^Wsystemd.

-- 
Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis, Calgary, Alberta, Canada

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Re: Windows Subsystem for Linux starts to compete with Cygwin?

[Andrey Repin]

Greetings, L. A. Walsh!

>> Do you mean, that Windows itself is a problem?
>> Or version 10 of Windows is a problem? Anyway, all Windows users will
>> use Windows 10 (or successors) sooner or later.
>> So it's only the beginning of the story.
> ---
>         You haven't been keeping in touch w/linux lately.
> It's really that all users will use "systemd" -- oh... wait,
> that's a reimplementation of the windows "services" daemon.  So,
> you might be right... ;-)

That's not quite the right comparison. systemd idea in itself isn't
particularly bad, but implementation is terrible.


-- 
With best regards,
Andrey Repin
Monday, October 31, 2016 14:03:08

Sorry for my terrible english...


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