msmtp depends on Gnome!?

msmtp depends on Gnome!?

[Stephen Paul Carrier]

Dear cygwin people,

msmtp is billed as a light-weight SMTP client and I would like to use
it with cron instead of ssmtp.

What's not light-weight is its dependency on libgnome-keyring0 which
has more dependencies that eventually bring in Gnome.  This is for a
headless workstation.

Is it possible to remove or replace this dependency so that msmtp can
be installed without enlarging the size of the install by such a factor?

Thanks!

Stephen Carrier

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Re: msmtp depends on Gnome!?

[Richard H Lee]

On 28/03/2018 22:50, Stephen Paul Carrier wrote:
> What's not light-weight is its dependency on libgnome-keyring0 which
> has more dependencies that eventually bring in Gnome.  This is for a
> headless workstation.
Gnome doesn't just contain the desktop libraries, it also contains the 
libraries for gobject.

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Re: msmtp depends on Gnome!?

[Brian Inglis]

On 2018-03-28 15:50, Stephen Paul Carrier wrote:
> msmtp is billed as a light-weight SMTP client and I would like to use
> it with cron instead of ssmtp.
> What's not light-weight is its dependency on libgnome-keyring0 which
> has more dependencies that eventually bring in Gnome.  This is for a
> headless workstation.
> Is it possible to remove or replace this dependency so that msmtp can
> be installed without enlarging the size of the install by such a factor?

Look at the other packages under the Mail category e.g. email, mailutils, nmh.
I've poked around with some of them, and most are pretty easy to set up and use,
depending on your requirements.

-- 
Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis, Calgary, Alberta, Canada

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Re: msmtp depends on Gnome!?

[Will Parsons]

On Wednesday, 28 Mar 2018  9:40 PM -0400, Brian Inglis wrote:
> On 2018-03-28 15:50, Stephen Paul Carrier wrote:
>> msmtp is billed as a light-weight SMTP client and I would like to use
>> it with cron instead of ssmtp.
>> What's not light-weight is its dependency on libgnome-keyring0 which
>> has more dependencies that eventually bring in Gnome.  This is for a
>> headless workstation.
>> Is it possible to remove or replace this dependency so that msmtp can
>> be installed without enlarging the size of the install by such a factor?
>
> Look at the other packages under the Mail category e.g. email, mailutils, nmh.
> I've poked around with some of them, and most are pretty easy to set up and use,
> depending on your requirements.

That may be true, but it is still surprising that msmtp should depend
on libgnome-keyring0.  I don't use msmtp under Cygwin, but I do under
FreeBSD, and under the latter platform, my version of msmtp seems to
depend on:

        bash-4.4.12_3
        ca_root_nss-3.36
        indexinfo-0.3.1
        gettext-runtime-0.19.8.1_1

This obviously will not translate directly into Cygwin, but it
certainly suggests that the OP's comment is justified.  (I'll have to
admit, I don't know why even bash should be a dependency.)

-- 
Will


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Re: msmtp depends on Gnome!?

[Stephen Paul Carrier]

On Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 03:24:50PM -0400, Will Parsons wrote:
> On Wednesday, 28 Mar 2018  9:40 PM -0400, Brian Inglis wrote:
> > On 2018-03-28 15:50, Stephen Paul Carrier wrote:
> >> msmtp is billed as a light-weight SMTP client and I would like to use
> >> it with cron instead of ssmtp.
> >> What's not light-weight is its dependency on libgnome-keyring0 which
> >> has more dependencies that eventually bring in Gnome.  This is for a
> >> headless workstation.
> >> Is it possible to remove or replace this dependency so that msmtp can
> >> be installed without enlarging the size of the install by such a factor?
> >
> > Look at the other packages under the Mail category e.g. email, mailutils, nmh.
> > I've poked around with some of them, and most are pretty easy to set up and use,
> > depending on your requirements.
> 
> That may be true, but it is still surprising that msmtp should depend
> on libgnome-keyring0.  I don't use msmtp under Cygwin, but I do under
> FreeBSD, and under the latter platform, my version of msmtp seems to
> depend on:
> 
>         bash-4.4.12_3
>         ca_root_nss-3.36
>         indexinfo-0.3.1
>         gettext-runtime-0.19.8.1_1
> 
> This obviously will not translate directly into Cygwin, but it
> certainly suggests that the OP's comment is justified.  (I'll have to
> admit, I don't know why even bash should be a dependency.)

My use case is a sendmail replacement (MTA) to use with cron.  I want to
configure it to send correctly formatted e-mail to a smarthub.  That is
all I need.  Cron expects something with sendmail-like commandline
interface.  ssmtp does this poorly (and hasn't been maintained since 
2009).  msmtp is reputed to do this also, more reliably, more flexibly,
and had a new version released in 2016.

I don't need a MUA client like email, nmh, or a local delivery agent
like comes with mailutils.  These are not sendmail workalikes.

I understand that Gnome may include a library used by msmtp.  Maybe that
library could be packaged separately?  It sort of defeats the purpose
of providing light-weight network utility if a desktop needs to be
installed just to get a miscellaneous library function. It is not even
a graphical program.

Also, maybe this dependency is just an oversight?  Also, maybe
libgnome-keyring0 is really standalone and doesn't actually depend on
a desktop.  Wherever this issue comes from it would be great and I would
appreciate the effort if anyone can correct it.

Thanks!

Stephen Carrier

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Re: msmtp depends on Gnome!?

[Andrey Repin]

Greetings, Stephen Paul Carrier!

> My use case is a sendmail replacement (MTA) to use with cron.

ssmtp

> ssmtp does this poorly (and hasn't been maintained since 2009).

Please clarify. What does it not do for you, and what needs maintenance?

> I understand that Gnome may include a library used by msmtp.  Maybe that
> library could be packaged separately?

Unfortunately, Cygwin setup does not have concept of "recommended" packages.
https://cygwin.com/acronyms/#PTC , see also https://cygwin.com/acronyms/#SHTDI

> Also, maybe this dependency is just an oversight?  Also, maybe
> libgnome-keyring0 is really standalone and doesn't actually depend on
> a desktop.

May be.


-- 
With best regards,
Andrey Repin
Friday, March 30, 2018 02:47:37

Sorry for my terrible english...


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Re: msmtp depends on Gnome!?

[Stephen Paul Carrier]

On Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 02:50:36AM +0300, Andrey Repin wrote:
> Greetings, Stephen Paul Carrier!
> 
> > My use case is a sendmail replacement (MTA) to use with cron.
> 
> ssmtp
> 
> > ssmtp does this poorly (and hasn't been maintained since 2009).
> 
> Please clarify. What does it not do for you, and what needs maintenance?

It seemed to be losing messages.  Maybe that's what non-queueing MTA's
do if the server doesn't respond.  But there was no indication of a
specific error other than the nonzero exit status.

I didn't mean to complain about ssmtp so much as switch to something
that implements the same basic idea but is currently maintained.
Maybe switching will fix the problem, maybe it won't.  Still worth
changing, I think.  And msmtp is a Cygwin package and should have
realistic dependencies.

I had recently discovered this page:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/SSMTP, which has the best
documentation I have seen for ssmtp.  Still, the page itself suggests
using msmtp instead.

Jon Turney reports (in this list) that the msmtp dependencies have been
fixed and I confirm that they are.

Thanks to all!

Stephen Carrier


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Re: msmtp depends on Gnome!?

[Andrey Repin]

Greetings, Stephen Paul Carrier!

> On Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 02:50:36AM +0300, Andrey Repin wrote:
>> Greetings, Stephen Paul Carrier!
>> 
>> > My use case is a sendmail replacement (MTA) to use with cron.
>> 
>> ssmtp
>> 
>> > ssmtp does this poorly (and hasn't been maintained since 2009).
>> 
>> Please clarify. What does it not do for you, and what needs maintenance?

> It seemed to be losing messages.  Maybe that's what non-queueing MTA's
> do if the server doesn't respond.

Yes.

> But there was no indication of a specific error other than the nonzero exit status.

Yes.
ssmtp (so does msmtp) is supposed to be used with reliable uplink. I.e. a
container host, that runs postfix or other full-blown MTA, where containers
can run simple ssmtp to sink mail to the host queue.

> And msmtp is a Cygwin package and should have
> realistic dependencies.

Nobody said to the contrary.


-- 
With best regards,
Andrey Repin
Friday, April 6, 2018 03:09:26

Sorry for my terrible english...


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Re: msmtp depends on Gnome!?

[Jon Turney]

On 28/03/2018 22:50, Stephen Paul Carrier wrote:
> Dear cygwin people,
> 
> msmtp is billed as a light-weight SMTP client and I would like to use
> it with cron instead of ssmtp.
> 
> What's not light-weight is its dependency on libgnome-keyring0 which
> has more dependencies that eventually bring in Gnome.  This is for a
> headless workstation.
> 
> Is it possible to remove or replace this dependency so that msmtp can
> be installed without enlarging the size of the install by such a factor?
> 
> Thanks!

Thanks for pointing this out.

These dependencies just seem to be out of date.

According to [1], msmtp hasn't required gnome-keyring since 1.6.0.  It's 
capable of using libsecret instead, but our package doesn't seem to be 
built with support for that.

Additionally, 1.6.6-1 is built against libgnutls30, but libgnutls28 is 
listed as dependency.

I adjusted these dependencies on sourceware.

[1] http://msmtp.sourceforge.net/news.html

Jari,

Please check your local copy and/or double-check these going forwards.

Also, msmtp 1.6.6-1 doesn't seem to have been built for x86, at all.

Thanks.


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