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From: Rutger Hofman <rutger@cs.vu.nl>
To: Jonathan Larmour <jifl@jifvik.org>
Cc: Ross Younger <wry@ecoscentric.com>, ecos-devel@ecos.sourceware.org
Subject: Re: NAND technical review
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 13:35:00 -0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <4AD48367.8050807@cs.vu.nl> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <4AD3E412.80002@jifvik.org>

Jonathan Larmour wrote:
> Hmm, I guess the key thing here is that in E's implementation most of 
> the complexity has been pushed into the lower layers; at least compared 
> to R's. R's has a more consistent interface through the layers. Albeit 
> at the expense of some rigidity and noticeable function overhead.
> 
> It's not likely E's will be able to easily share controller code, given 
> of course you don't know what chips, and so what chip driver APIs 
> they'll be connected to. But OTOH, maybe this isn't a big deal since a 
> lot of the controller-specific munging is likely to be platform-specific 
> anyway due to characteristics of the attached NAND (e.g. timings etc.) 
> and the only bits that would be sensibly shared would potentially happen 
> in the processor HAL anyway at startup time. What's left may not be that 
> much and isn't a problem in the platform HAL. However the likely 
> exception to that is hardware-assisted ECC. A semi-formal API for that 
> would be desirable.

This is the largest difference in design philosophy between E and R. Is 
it OK if I expand?

NAND chips are all identical in their wire setup. They all have a data 
'bus', and control lines to indicate whether what is on the bus is a 
command, an address, or data.

NAND chips differ in how their command language works, but only so far. 
What is on the market now is 'regular' large-page chips that all speak 
the same command language, and small-page chips that have a somewhat 
different command language. ONFI chips are large-page chips except in 
interrogation at startup and in bad-block marking.

E.g. a page read for a large-page chip (my running example) looks like this:
. write a command 0x00 (READ_START)
. write address bytes of the page(+offset) to be read
. write a command 0x30 (READ_CONFIRM)
. read the data on the bus
. insofar as supported retrieve hw-calculated ECC
For small-page chips the sequence is different because a page's data is 
read in multiple chunks, using READ_1_A (0x00), READ_1_B (0x01), and for 
spare area READ_2 (0x05).

These 2 languages are all the variation there is for NAND chips (plus, 
at another level, 2 timing values for read cycle and write cycle)! The 
wide-ranging differences for devices for NAND are in the controllers.

How controllers work, is that they accept input like 'write a command of 
value 0x..', 'write an address of value 0x.....', etc, and do their job 
on the NAND chip's wires. They cannot really operate at a higher level, 
if only because they must support both small-page and large-page chips 
(and ONFI), and this is the level of common protocol for the chips.

So controller code has to bridge between API calls like page_read and 
the interface of the controller as described above. R's implementation 
presumes that a lot of the code to make this translation is generic: a 
large-page read translates to the controller steps as given above in the 
running example, in any controller implementation. Moreover, the generic 
code handles spare layout: where in the spare is the application's spare 
data folded, where is the ECC, where is the bad-block mark. OTOH, the 
generic code has hooks for handling any ECC that the controller has 
computed in hardware -- how ECC is supported in hardware varies across 
controllers. But the way the ECC check is handled (case in point is 
where a correctible bit error is flagged) is generic again.

So, lots of code can (and will) be shared across controller 
implementations -- whether by code sharing or by code duplication.

Rutger

  reply	other threads:[~2009-10-13 13:35 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 58+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2009-10-02 15:51 Jonathan Larmour
2009-10-06 13:51 ` Ross Younger
2009-10-07  3:12   ` Jonathan Larmour
2009-10-07 16:22     ` Rutger Hofman
2009-10-08  7:15       ` Jürgen Lambrecht
2009-10-15  3:53         ` Jonathan Larmour
2009-10-15 11:54           ` Jürgen Lambrecht
2009-10-15  3:49       ` Jonathan Larmour
2009-10-15 14:36         ` Rutger Hofman
2009-10-16  1:32           ` Jonathan Larmour
2009-10-19  9:56             ` Ross Younger
2009-10-19 14:21             ` Rutger Hofman
2009-10-20  3:21               ` Jonathan Larmour
2009-10-20 12:19                 ` Rutger Hofman
2009-10-21  1:45                   ` Jonathan Larmour
2009-10-21 12:15                     ` Rutger Hofman
2009-10-23 14:06                       ` Jonathan Larmour
2009-10-23 15:25                         ` Rutger Hofman
2009-10-23 18:03                           ` Rutger Hofman
2009-10-27 20:02                           ` Rutger Hofman
2009-11-10  7:03                           ` Jonathan Larmour
2010-12-11 19:18                             ` John Dallaway
2010-12-22 14:54                               ` Rutger Hofman
2009-10-15 15:43         ` Rutger Hofman
     [not found]     ` <4ACDF868.7050706@ecoscentric.com>
2009-10-09  8:27       ` Ross Younger
2009-10-13  2:21         ` Jonathan Larmour
2009-10-13 13:35           ` Rutger Hofman [this message]
2009-10-16  4:04             ` Jonathan Larmour
2009-10-19 14:51               ` Rutger Hofman
2009-10-20  4:28                 ` Jonathan Larmour
2009-10-07  9:40   ` Jürgen Lambrecht
2009-10-07 16:27     ` Rutger Hofman
2009-10-13  2:44     ` Jonathan Larmour
2009-10-13  6:35       ` Jürgen Lambrecht
2009-10-15  3:55         ` Jonathan Larmour
2009-10-13 12:59       ` Rutger Hofman
2009-10-15  4:41         ` Jonathan Larmour
2009-10-15 14:55           ` Rutger Hofman
2009-10-16  1:45             ` Jonathan Larmour
2009-10-19 10:53           ` Ross Younger
2009-10-20  1:40             ` Jonathan Larmour
2009-10-20 10:17               ` Ross Younger
2009-10-21  2:06                 ` Jonathan Larmour
2009-10-22 10:05                   ` Ross Younger
2009-11-10  5:15                     ` Jonathan Larmour
2009-11-10 10:38                       ` Ross Younger
2009-11-10 11:28                         ` Ethernet over SPI driver for ENC424J600 Ilija Stanislevik
2009-11-10 12:16                           ` Chris Holgate
2009-11-12 18:32                         ` NAND technical review Ross Younger
2009-10-13 14:19       ` Rutger Hofman
2009-10-13 19:58         ` Lambrecht Jürgen
2009-10-07 12:11   ` Rutger Hofman
2009-10-08 12:31     ` Ross Younger
2009-10-08  8:16   ` Jürgen Lambrecht
2009-10-12  1:13     ` Jonathan Larmour
2009-10-16  7:29 ` Simon Kallweit
2009-10-16 13:53   ` Jonathan Larmour
2009-10-19 15:02   ` Rutger Hofman

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