From: Richard Biener <richard.guenther@gmail.com>
To: Andrew Pinski <pinskia@gmail.com>
Cc: "Sandra Loosemore" <sandra@codesourcery.com>,
"Arsen Arsenović" <arsen@aarsen.me>,
gcc-patches@gcc.gnu.org, "Gerald Pfeifer" <gerald@pfeifer.com>,
"Joseph Myers" <joseph@codesourcery.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 0/5] A small Texinfo refinement
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2023 09:26:47 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAFiYyc1P_vB+vYuBCZXtr2dr2KwGcX=0wPD84bE3gDxutiMk2g@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CA+=Sn1m=gpjH6z+LBduS3FZkGNqx4mKeRt_y=kpxVQHgXCi6_g@mail.gmail.com>
On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 2:20 AM Andrew Pinski via Gcc-patches
<gcc-patches@gcc.gnu.org> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 5:09 PM Sandra Loosemore <sandra@codesourcery.com> wrote:
> >
> > On 3/8/23 14:22, Arsen Arsenović wrote:
> > >
> > > Sandra Loosemore <sandra@codesourcery.com> writes:
> > >
> > >> On 3/8/23 02:11, Arsen Arsenović wrote:
> > >>> Sandra Loosemore <sandra@codesourcery.com> writes:
> > >>>
> > >>>> On 2/23/23 03:27, Arsen Arsenović via Gcc-patches wrote:
> > >>>>> I've rerendered the updated documentation with latest development
> > >>>>> Texinfo (as some of the changes I made for the purposes of the GCC
> > >>>>> manual still aren't in releases) at:
> > >>>>> https://www.aarsen.me/~arsen/final/
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Ummm. I don't think GCC's documentation should depend on an unreleased version
> > >>>> of Texinfo. Currently install.texi documents that version 4.7 or later is
> > >>>> required, 4.8 for "make pdf"; did I miss something in your patch set that bumps
> > >>>> this requirement? Exactly what features do you depend on that are not yet
> > >>>> supported by an official Texinfo release?
> > >>> This patch should still build with older Texinfo versions (albeit, I
> > >>> hadn't tested 4.7, I missed that requirement). The unreleased version
> > >>> should be installed on the server building HTML documentation as it
> > >>> produces better results w.r.t clickable anchors and index-in-table
> > >>> handling. It should not be a hard dependency, and should only degrade
> > >>> to its current state should in-dev Texinfo be missing.
> > >>
> > >> Hmmm, OK. We presently have Texinfo version 6.7 installed here, so I'll give
> > >> that a try. I'm not sure I'd be able to detect problems with incorrect HTML
> > >> anchors or whatever, though.
> > >
> > > As an example, let's take this link:
> > > https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-12.2.0/gcc/Warning-Options.html#index-Wpedantic
> > >
> > > This should place you below the item line this index entry refers to,
> > > and there aren't any copiable anchors (see equivalent in my render for
> > > an example of those), both of which were often named as annoyances with
> > > the onlinedocs while the Sphinx experiment was taking place.
> > >
> > > A similar thing happens in the standalone and Emacs info viewers (but
> > > that's less noticeable there since the cursor is placed in the middle of
> > > the screen when jumping to an index entry there). Try, for instance,
> > > 'info gcc Wpedantic' (your cursor will be placed just below the item
> > > line).
> > >
> > > The fix for the first of these issues should already be applied by
> > > Gerald (in the reordering commits, IIRC at least, save for one that I
> > > created later because someone snuck in new "misplaced" indices), and
> > > that fix should also fix up previous versions of Texinfo.
> > >
> > > Even with this change, the copiable anchors will remain missing since
> > > released Texinfo versions lack some AST transformations that enable
> > > those.
> >
> > OK, I can see the difference there between the current online docs, the
> > set you produced with the unreleased Texinfo support, and what I got
> > building with Texinfo 6.7.
> >
> > > Otherwise, manuals should work fine with older releases, unless I missed
> > > something when refactoring @defbuiltin and removing @gols (which I do
> > > believe are superfluous with current versions of texinfo.tex, which is
> > > why I bumped that too).
> >
> > I did a few spot-checks here and there of those changes. I saw a couple
> > of line break problems but they turn out to be due to existing errors in
> > the .texi files that were not introduced by your (mostly mechanical)
> > changes.
> >
> > >> Most people building GCC from source probably use whatever versions of build
> > >> dependencies are provided by their OS distribution. In our group we need
> > >> reproducible builds for long-term support so we maintain our own list of
> > >> dependencies and normally update to the latest stable versions only once every
> > >> few years unless there is a hard requirement to upgrade some particular tool
> > >> meanwhile. I personally do not know how the manuals for the GCC web site are
> > >> built, but it seems kind of important to make sure that works as intended since
> > >> it's the main online resource for ordinary GCC users.
> > >
> > > Yes, I can get behind this sentiment too. I don't mean to impose a hard
> > > dependency on the bleeding edge of Texinfo. My target was indeed the
> > > GCC website and ordinary users.
> > >
> > >>> It might be worth bumping the minimum, 4.7 is a version from 2004; in
> > >>> the meanwhile, I'll try a few older versions too.
> > >>
> > >> I agree that it's unlikely anyone is building current GCC with a Texinfo
> > >> version as old as 4.7 any more, and it may be that the manual doesn't even
> > >> build properly with such an old release due to existing unintentional
> > >> dependencies on newer features, independently of your patch. If we do update
> > >> the version, there's a version check in configure.ac and some hack for
> > >> "makeinfo 4.7 brokenness" in doc/install.texi2html that need to be changed, as
> > >> well as install.texi.
> > >
> > > FWIW, I (briefly) tested with Texinfo 6.0, and output seems okay. On
> > > 5.0, I got a few warnings, but I think even 6.0 is apt considering its
> > > age. I haven't given it a proper scrutiny, though (workdays are busy
> > > this time of year..).
> >
> > Texinfo 6.0 was released in 2015, 5.0 in 2013. FWIW, Trusty Tahr (the
> > current oldest Ubuntu LTS release) has 5.2. 4.7 was released in 2004, I
> > don't know why anyone would still be trying to use that unless it's
> > needed for building legacy code from the same era.
>
> CentOS/RHEL 7 includes texinfo 5.1. That is the oldest distro I think
> mostly supports building with.
> That is the oldest I do builds of GCC with even for the trunk.
SLES 12 has texinfo 4.13a, SLES 15 has texinfo 6.5. We still provide
up-to-date GCC for SLES 12 but we can probably manage in some ways
when the texinfo requirement gets bumped.
Richard.
> Thanks,
> Andrew
>
> >
> > I think we could do away with the requirement for a specific minimum
> > version, and make install.texi say something similar to what it says for
> > e.g. awk -- just use a "recent" version, and note that new versions
> > produce better output and very old ones may produce diagnostics. I'll
> > add that do my own todo list.
> >
> > -Sandra
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2023-03-09 8:27 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 59+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2023-02-23 10:27 Arsen Arsenović
2023-02-23 10:27 ` [PATCH v2 1/5] docs: Create Indices appendix Arsen Arsenović
2023-03-09 3:16 ` Sandra Loosemore
2023-03-09 10:12 ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-03-09 20:38 ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-03-11 1:12 ` Sandra Loosemore
2023-03-11 1:34 ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-03-11 12:22 ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-03-11 19:22 ` Gerald Pfeifer
2023-03-11 20:22 ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-03-11 19:34 ` Sandra Loosemore
2023-03-11 20:14 ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-03-11 20:32 ` [PATCH v2] html: Set CONTENTS_OUTPUT_LOCATION=inline if makeinfo supports it Arsen Arsenović
2023-03-12 10:25 ` [PATCH v2 1/5] docs: Create Indices appendix Gerald Pfeifer
2023-03-12 12:23 ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-02-23 10:27 ` [PATCH v2 2/5] **/*.texi: Reorder index entries Arsen Arsenović
2023-02-23 23:50 ` Gerald Pfeifer
2023-02-23 10:27 ` [PATCH v2 3/5] doc: Add @defbuiltin family of helpers, set documentlanguage Arsen Arsenović
2023-03-09 23:50 ` Sandra Loosemore
2023-02-23 10:27 ` [PATCH v2 4/5] Update texinfo.tex, remove the @gol macro/alias Arsen Arsenović
2023-03-09 23:55 ` Sandra Loosemore
2023-03-10 0:17 ` Gerald Pfeifer
2023-03-10 10:33 ` Thomas Schwinge
2023-03-10 12:49 ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-03-10 15:51 ` Gerald Pfeifer
2023-03-10 15:58 ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-03-10 12:48 ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-03-10 15:49 ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-03-18 20:14 ` Ping (gcc/configure.ac, docs): " Arsen Arsenović
2023-03-20 22:01 ` Sandra Loosemore
2023-03-20 23:06 ` Joseph Myers
2023-03-20 23:27 ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-03-20 23:35 ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-03-21 9:52 ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-03-21 23:11 ` Gerald Pfeifer
2023-02-23 10:27 ` [PATCH v2 5/5] update_web_docs_git: Update CSS reference to new manual CSS Arsen Arsenović
2023-03-10 0:07 ` Sandra Loosemore
2023-03-10 13:00 ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-02-25 22:04 ` [PATCH v2 0/5] A small Texinfo refinement Thomas Schwinge
2023-02-26 14:54 ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-03-08 1:56 ` Sandra Loosemore
2023-03-08 9:11 ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-03-08 18:38 ` Sandra Loosemore
2023-03-08 21:22 ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-03-09 1:09 ` Sandra Loosemore
2023-03-09 1:19 ` Andrew Pinski
2023-03-09 8:26 ` Richard Biener [this message]
2023-03-09 23:35 ` Sandra Loosemore
2023-03-10 8:50 ` Iain Sandoe
2023-03-10 17:51 ` Sandra Loosemore
2023-03-10 18:09 ` Sandra Loosemore
2023-03-10 19:00 ` Gerald Pfeifer
2023-03-13 9:05 ` Richard Biener
2023-03-13 11:01 ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-05-29 15:06 ` NightStrike
2023-05-29 17:26 ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-05-29 19:27 ` Sandra Loosemore
2023-03-09 10:22 ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-03-09 8:28 ` Gerald Pfeifer
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