* [Bug localedata/14943] Artificial languages
2012-12-11 12:37 [Bug localedata/14943] New: Artificial languages michael.moroni at mailoo dot org
@ 2012-12-11 21:26 ` aj at suse dot de
2012-12-11 23:18 ` bugdal at aerifal dot cx
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From: aj at suse dot de @ 2012-12-11 21:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: glibc-bugs
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Andreas Jaeger <aj at suse dot de> changed:
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CC| |aj at suse dot de
--- Comment #1 from Andreas Jaeger <aj at suse dot de> 2012-12-11 21:26:02 UTC ---
Michael, we reworked our position already and recently added Interlingua. I
think an Esperanto locale if properly introduced would be welcome. For details
see the libc-alpha archives.
A big question for me is what kind of country code to use for it - as well what
kind of formats to use for date and time formats.
Could you send a patch to libc-alpha@sourceware.org with a new Esperanto locale
and a rationale for the decisions made, please?
Let's discuss on that list what's the best choice is.
Btw. glibc 2.17 has an initial translation to Esperanto just no locale yet.
thanks,
Andreas
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* [Bug localedata/14943] Artificial languages
2012-12-11 12:37 [Bug localedata/14943] New: Artificial languages michael.moroni at mailoo dot org
2012-12-11 21:26 ` [Bug localedata/14943] " aj at suse dot de
@ 2012-12-11 23:18 ` bugdal at aerifal dot cx
2012-12-12 8:07 ` aj at suse dot de
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From: bugdal at aerifal dot cx @ 2012-12-11 23:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: glibc-bugs
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Rich Felker <bugdal at aerifal dot cx> changed:
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CC| |bugdal at aerifal dot cx
--- Comment #2 from Rich Felker <bugdal at aerifal dot cx> 2012-12-11 23:18:35 UTC ---
Is there a reason locales HAVE TO have a country code? I think, for languages
that are not connected to a country, or where for political reasons the
language's country is not recognized internationally, it would be very helpful
to have traditional locale names of the format "ll" or "lll" instead of
requiring the "ll_CC" form. The country-specific parts of the locale like
currency, which would not make sense in such a context, could simply be aligned
with the C locale.
If said languages are also heavily used in one or more particular country
contexts, it would be nice to also add "ll_CC" format locales for them with the
appropriate country-specific parts. But I think it's really annoying to force
users who want to use the language to choose from a limited set of countries
that do not correspond to the country they're in.
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* [Bug localedata/14943] Artificial languages
2012-12-11 12:37 [Bug localedata/14943] New: Artificial languages michael.moroni at mailoo dot org
2012-12-11 21:26 ` [Bug localedata/14943] " aj at suse dot de
2012-12-11 23:18 ` bugdal at aerifal dot cx
@ 2012-12-12 8:07 ` aj at suse dot de
2012-12-12 8:44 ` schwab@linux-m68k.org
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From: aj at suse dot de @ 2012-12-12 8:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: glibc-bugs
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--- Comment #3 from Andreas Jaeger <aj at suse dot de> 2012-12-12 08:06:57 UTC ---
(In reply to comment #2)
> Is there a reason locales HAVE TO have a country code?
So far each one has one - and it might be that some of the infrastructure for
installing it, requires it. This is something to discuss on the mailing list
IMO.
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* [Bug localedata/14943] Artificial languages
2012-12-11 12:37 [Bug localedata/14943] New: Artificial languages michael.moroni at mailoo dot org
` (2 preceding siblings ...)
2012-12-12 8:07 ` aj at suse dot de
@ 2012-12-12 8:44 ` schwab@linux-m68k.org
2012-12-12 9:14 ` fweimer at redhat dot com
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From: schwab@linux-m68k.org @ 2012-12-12 8:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: glibc-bugs
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--- Comment #4 from Andreas Schwab <schwab@linux-m68k.org> 2012-12-12 08:43:35 UTC ---
If you want to switch only the language set the LANGUAGE variable, see the
gettext manual. Locales are always country specific.
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* [Bug localedata/14943] Artificial languages
2012-12-11 12:37 [Bug localedata/14943] New: Artificial languages michael.moroni at mailoo dot org
` (3 preceding siblings ...)
2012-12-12 8:44 ` schwab@linux-m68k.org
@ 2012-12-12 9:14 ` fweimer at redhat dot com
2012-12-12 21:32 ` bugtrack at roumenpetrov dot info
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From: fweimer at redhat dot com @ 2012-12-12 9:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: glibc-bugs
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Florian Weimer <fweimer at redhat dot com> changed:
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CC| |fweimer at redhat dot com
--- Comment #5 from Florian Weimer <fweimer at redhat dot com> 2012-12-12 09:13:29 UTC ---
(In reply to comment #1)
> A big question for me is what kind of country code to use for it - as well what
> kind of formats to use for date and time formats.
Unicode uses ZZ: <http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr35/>
We could follow this example or pick something else from the private use range
(say, XN).
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* [Bug localedata/14943] Artificial languages
2012-12-11 12:37 [Bug localedata/14943] New: Artificial languages michael.moroni at mailoo dot org
` (4 preceding siblings ...)
2012-12-12 9:14 ` fweimer at redhat dot com
@ 2012-12-12 21:32 ` bugtrack at roumenpetrov dot info
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From: bugtrack at roumenpetrov dot info @ 2012-12-12 21:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: glibc-bugs
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Roumen Petrov <bugtrack at roumenpetrov dot info> changed:
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CC| |bugtrack at roumenpetrov
| |dot info
--- Comment #6 from Roumen Petrov <bugtrack at roumenpetrov dot info> 2012-12-12 21:31:50 UTC ---
I cannot understand why optional territory (an ISO 3166 country code) was read
as required in GNU lib C.
It seems to me we read different manuals or one and the same but interpretation
is different.
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* [Bug localedata/14943] Artificial languages
2012-12-11 12:37 [Bug localedata/14943] New: Artificial languages michael.moroni at mailoo dot org
` (5 preceding siblings ...)
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@ 2012-12-13 1:28 ` bugdal at aerifal dot cx
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From: bugdal at aerifal dot cx @ 2012-12-13 1:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: glibc-bugs
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--- Comment #7 from Rich Felker <bugdal at aerifal dot cx> 2012-12-13 01:28:18 UTC ---
I share Roumen Petrov's sentiment completely. There is no justification for
this arbitrary policy position, which is unwelcoming not only to users of
languages that aren't associated with a specific country, but hostile to users'
whose countries are not recognized internationally.
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* [Bug localedata/14943] Artificial languages
2012-12-11 12:37 [Bug localedata/14943] New: Artificial languages michael.moroni at mailoo dot org
` (6 preceding siblings ...)
2012-12-13 1:28 ` bugdal at aerifal dot cx
@ 2012-12-13 6:53 ` aj at suse dot de
2013-01-09 6:05 ` hpa at zytor dot com
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From: aj at suse dot de @ 2012-12-13 6:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: glibc-bugs
http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=14943
--- Comment #8 from Andreas Jaeger <aj at suse dot de> 2012-12-13 06:52:42 UTC ---
Hi, you read far more into my comment regarding countries than intented to say.
I'm not *requiring* a country, I require that the choice of country is well
explained and depending on what is done, it is tested that the tools and
infrastructure handle it properly.
We have a meta discussion here. If somebody is interested in Esperanto, test
the locale, send it to libc-alpha and explain the choices made and let's
discuss this.
Since we already have Interlingua as locale and Esperanto as language I suggest
to close this bug report as FIXED. The issue has been revisited, now somebody
needs to look at specific examples.
Btw. completely artificial toy languages will not get added.
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* [Bug localedata/14943] Artificial languages
2012-12-11 12:37 [Bug localedata/14943] New: Artificial languages michael.moroni at mailoo dot org
` (7 preceding siblings ...)
2012-12-13 6:53 ` aj at suse dot de
@ 2013-01-09 6:05 ` hpa at zytor dot com
2013-03-03 17:51 ` bpeeluk at yahoo dot co.uk
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From: hpa at zytor dot com @ 2013-01-09 6:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: glibc-bugs
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hpa@zytor.com <hpa at zytor dot com> changed:
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----------------------------------------------------------------------------
CC| |hpa at zytor dot com
--- Comment #9 from hpa at zytor dot com <hpa at zytor dot com> 2013-01-09 06:05:05 UTC ---
For a root locale "eo" or "eo_ZZ" seems reasonable, but in practice I suspect
that Esperanto locales will need to have localizations, i.e. eo_US which uses
the U.S. conventions for currency and so on. Unfortunately "locale" combines a
number of partly orthogonal concepts -- some of which may even be user or
application specific and need to be overridden. An example of the latter was a
previous employer of mine which had to distribute an "en_US@Transmeta" locale
to all systems to support a single application, so that %' could be used to
print numbers with underscore thousands separators.
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* [Bug localedata/14943] Artificial languages
2012-12-11 12:37 [Bug localedata/14943] New: Artificial languages michael.moroni at mailoo dot org
` (8 preceding siblings ...)
2013-01-09 6:05 ` hpa at zytor dot com
@ 2013-03-03 17:51 ` bpeeluk at yahoo dot co.uk
2013-03-04 0:18 ` bugdal at aerifal dot cx
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From: bpeeluk at yahoo dot co.uk @ 2013-03-03 17:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: glibc-bugs
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--- Comment #10 from Neil Roberts <bpeeluk at yahoo dot co.uk> 2013-03-03 17:50:32 UTC ---
Created attachment 6914
--> http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=6914
Patch to add eo_FR
Here's a patch to add an eo_FR locale for using Esperanto in France. I think
the French monetary and numeric systems are close enough to what people would
expect for an international system so it's also a good general purpose
Esperanto locale. It is based the original international locale created by
Edmund Grimley Evans but with some changes to localise it to France. These
changes are described in the commit message.
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* [Bug localedata/14943] Artificial languages
2012-12-11 12:37 [Bug localedata/14943] New: Artificial languages michael.moroni at mailoo dot org
` (9 preceding siblings ...)
2013-03-03 17:51 ` bpeeluk at yahoo dot co.uk
@ 2013-03-04 0:18 ` bugdal at aerifal dot cx
2013-03-04 5:44 ` keld at keldix dot com
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From: bugdal at aerifal dot cx @ 2013-03-04 0:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: glibc-bugs
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--- Comment #11 from Rich Felker <bugdal at aerifal dot cx> 2013-03-04 00:17:02 UTC ---
> Here's a patch to add an eo_FR locale for using Esperanto in France. I think
> the French monetary and numeric systems are close enough to what people would
> expect for an international system so it's also a good general purpose
> Esperanto locale.
The radix point is a comma. This is pretty much a show-stopper. In the
international language of mathematics, radix point is "."
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* [Bug localedata/14943] Artificial languages
2012-12-11 12:37 [Bug localedata/14943] New: Artificial languages michael.moroni at mailoo dot org
` (10 preceding siblings ...)
2013-03-04 0:18 ` bugdal at aerifal dot cx
@ 2013-03-04 5:44 ` keld at keldix dot com
2013-03-04 14:34 ` bpeeluk at yahoo dot co.uk
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From: keld at keldix dot com @ 2013-03-04 5:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: glibc-bugs
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--- Comment #12 from keld at keldix dot com <keld at keldix dot com> 2013-03-04 05:43:09 UTC ---
On Mon, Mar 04, 2013 at 12:17:02AM +0000, bugdal at aerifal dot cx wrote:
> http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=14943
>
> --- Comment #11 from Rich Felker <bugdal at aerifal dot cx> 2013-03-04 00:17:02 UTC ---
> > Here's a patch to add an eo_FR locale for using Esperanto in France. I think
> > the French monetary and numeric systems are close enough to what people would
> > expect for an international system so it's also a good general purpose
> > Esperanto locale.
>
> The radix point is a comma. This is pretty much a show-stopper. In the
> international language of mathematics, radix point is "."
The ISO radix point is comma, in mathemaitcs too. It is only USA and Canada
and some other English-speaking countries that use the period.
We are talking France, and they are using comma. I don't see this as a
show-stopper,
but only natural.
Best regards
keld
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* [Bug localedata/14943] Artificial languages
2012-12-11 12:37 [Bug localedata/14943] New: Artificial languages michael.moroni at mailoo dot org
` (11 preceding siblings ...)
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@ 2013-03-04 14:34 ` bpeeluk at yahoo dot co.uk
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From: bpeeluk at yahoo dot co.uk @ 2013-03-04 14:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: glibc-bugs
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Neil Roberts <bpeeluk at yahoo dot co.uk> changed:
What |Removed |Added
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CC| |bpeeluk at yahoo dot co.uk
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* [Bug localedata/14943] Artificial languages
2012-12-11 12:37 [Bug localedata/14943] New: Artificial languages michael.moroni at mailoo dot org
` (12 preceding siblings ...)
2013-03-04 14:34 ` bpeeluk at yahoo dot co.uk
@ 2013-03-08 12:25 ` bpeeluk at yahoo dot co.uk
2013-03-11 22:19 ` carlos at redhat dot com
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From: bpeeluk at yahoo dot co.uk @ 2013-03-08 12:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: glibc-bugs
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--- Comment #13 from Neil Roberts <bpeeluk at yahoo dot co.uk> 2013-03-08 12:24:19 UTC ---
So what's the next steps to get this patch landed? Does someone specific need
to review it?
I think the comments by Keld cover the concerns with the radix point. There are
also some clarification in a widely respected book about Esperanto grammar
here:
http://bertilow.com/pmeg/gramatiko/nombroj/matematiko.html
Roughly translated, it says “Don't use a period instead of a comma for
decimals. The period is used as a decimal sign only in a few countries.
Esperanto, like most countries and languages, uses a decimal comma”. It also
shows some examples of using the comma in mathematical writing.
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* [Bug localedata/14943] Artificial languages
2012-12-11 12:37 [Bug localedata/14943] New: Artificial languages michael.moroni at mailoo dot org
` (13 preceding siblings ...)
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From: carlos at redhat dot com @ 2013-03-11 22:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: glibc-bugs
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Carlos O'Donell <carlos at redhat dot com> changed:
What |Removed |Added
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CC| |carlos at redhat dot com
--- Comment #14 from Carlos O'Donell <carlos at redhat dot com> 2013-03-11 22:19:05 UTC ---
(In reply to comment #13)
> So what's the next steps to get this patch landed? Does someone specific need
> to review it?
>
> I think the comments by Keld cover the concerns with the radix point. There are
> also some clarification in a widely respected book about Esperanto grammar
> here:
>
> http://bertilow.com/pmeg/gramatiko/nombroj/matematiko.html
>
> Roughly translated, it says “Don't use a period instead of a comma for
> decimals. The period is used as a decimal sign only in a few countries.
> Esperanto, like most countries and languages, uses a decimal comma”. It also
> shows some examples of using the comma in mathematical writing.
The next step is to post a final patch to libc-alpha@sourceware.org, CC the
people who made comments here, and ask for final review. The post description
of the problem should address the concerns raised in v1 of the patch and if any
changes were made it should list them under a v2 entry.
Make sure to follow:
http://sourceware.org/glibc/wiki/Contribution%20checklist
One you have consensus then a developer with commit permission can check the
patch into master.
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* [Bug localedata/14943] Artificial languages
2012-12-11 12:37 [Bug localedata/14943] New: Artificial languages michael.moroni at mailoo dot org
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From: cjlhomeaddress at gmail dot com @ 2013-11-19 19:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: glibc-bugs
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Chris Leonard <cjlhomeaddress at gmail dot com> changed:
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CC| |cjlhomeaddress at gmail dot com
Blocks| |16190
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* [Bug localedata/14943] Artificial languages
2012-12-11 12:37 [Bug localedata/14943] New: Artificial languages michael.moroni at mailoo dot org
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From: cjlhomeaddress at gmail dot com @ 2013-11-23 16:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: glibc-bugs
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--- Comment #15 from Chris Leonard <cjlhomeaddress at gmail dot com> ---
I have a suggestion.
Esperanto is currently the language of instruction of the International Academy
of Sciences in San Marino
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akademio_Internacia_de_la_Sciencoj_San_Marino
I propose submitting a locale for eo_SM in recognition of this fact. It is no
more-or-less sound than the logic that lead to for for Interlingua. Comments?
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* [Bug localedata/14943] Artificial languages
2012-12-11 12:37 [Bug localedata/14943] New: Artificial languages michael.moroni at mailoo dot org
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From: carlos at redhat dot com @ 2013-11-25 14:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: glibc-bugs
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--- Comment #16 from Carlos O'Donell <carlos at redhat dot com> ---
I've emailed libc-alpha/libc-locles to get consensus on using locales without
country codes.
https://sourceware.org/ml/libc-locales/2013-q4/msg00137.html
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* [Bug localedata/14943] Artificial languages
2012-12-11 12:37 [Bug localedata/14943] New: Artificial languages michael.moroni at mailoo dot org
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From: fweimer at redhat dot com @ 2014-06-14 5:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: glibc-bugs
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Florian Weimer <fweimer at redhat dot com> changed:
What |Removed |Added
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Flags| |security-
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* [Bug localedata/14943] Artificial languages
2012-12-11 12:37 [Bug localedata/14943] New: Artificial languages michael.moroni at mailoo dot org
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From: eichi237 at mailoo dot org @ 2014-08-28 17:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: glibc-bugs
https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=14943
sinma <eichi237 at mailoo dot org> changed:
What |Removed |Added
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CC| |eichi237 at mailoo dot org
--- Comment #17 from sinma <eichi237 at mailoo dot org> ---
Any news on this?
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* [Bug localedata/14943] Artificial languages
2012-12-11 12:37 [Bug localedata/14943] New: Artificial languages michael.moroni at mailoo dot org
` (19 preceding siblings ...)
2014-08-28 17:21 ` eichi237 at mailoo dot org
@ 2015-10-16 14:53 ` carlos at redhat dot com
20 siblings, 0 replies; 22+ messages in thread
From: carlos at redhat dot com @ 2015-10-16 14:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: glibc-bugs
https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=14943
Carlos O'Donell <carlos at redhat dot com> changed:
What |Removed |Added
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Status|NEW |WAITING
--- Comment #18 from Carlos O'Donell <carlos at redhat dot com> ---
Consensus is "eo" should be used without a region. Please submit patches to
libc-alpha for inclusion.
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