[Attn. MAINTAINERS] Heads up: Perl 5.36.1 is imminent

[Attn. MAINTAINERS] Heads up: Perl 5.36.1 is imminent

[Achim Gratz]

I'm going to release Perl 5.36.1 to Cygwin in a few days.  I've skipped
5.34 in order to update only every second year (which I've done since
the 5.22 release).  I haven't seen any trouble in my own Perl
distribution packages from the update even though there are lots of
them that haven't been updated since at least 5.22.  So I hope it will
be smooth sailing for anything else depending on Perl also.

Any maintainer having packages that depend on perl5_032 should
re-release or upgrade these soon-ish after the Perl update is available,
as otherwise users are either blocked from upgrading Perl or will have
to uninstall the affected packages.  The rebuilt packages need to have a
dependency on perl5_036, which cygport provides automatically.


Regards,
Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+

Wavetables for the Terratec KOMPLEXER:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#KomplexerWaves

Re: [Attn. MAINTAINERS] Heads up: Perl 5.36.1 is imminent

[Marco Atzeri]

On 01.05.2023 22:00, Achim Gratz via Cygwin-apps wrote:
> 
> I'm going to release Perl 5.36.1 to Cygwin in a few days.  I've skipped
> 5.34 in order to update only every second year (which I've done since
> the 5.22 release).  I haven't seen any trouble in my own Perl
> distribution packages from the update even though there are lots of
> them that haven't been updated since at least 5.22.  So I hope it will
> be smooth sailing for anything else depending on Perl also.
> 
> Any maintainer having packages that depend on perl5_032 should
> re-release or upgrade these soon-ish after the Perl update is available,
> as otherwise users are either blocked from upgrading Perl or will have
> to uninstall the affected packages.  The rebuilt packages need to have a
> dependency on perl5_036, which cygport provides automatically.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Achim.

are you planning to upload 5.36.1 as test ?

I will be on the road for 2 weeks in May and I will not be able to 
update any package starting from 8th May

Regards
Marco

Re: [Attn. MAINTAINERS] Heads up: Perl 5.36.1 is imminent

[ASSI]

Marco Atzeri via Cygwin-apps writes:
> are you planning to upload 5.36.1 as test ?

No.

> I will be on the road for 2 weeks in May and I will not be able to
> update any package starting from 8th May

I need to check another few hundred build logs this evening, then the
release should be good to go.


Regards,
Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+

Wavetables for the Waldorf Blofeld:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#BlofeldUserWavetables

Re: [Attn. MAINTAINERS] Heads up: Perl 5.36.1 is imminent

[Achim Gratz]

Achim Gratz via Cygwin-apps writes:
> I'm going to release Perl 5.36.1 to Cygwin in a few days.

Done.


Regards,
Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+

SD adaptation for Waldorf microQ V2.22R2:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfSDada

Re: [Attn. MAINTAINERS] Heads up: Perl 5.36.1 is imminent

[Marco Atzeri]

On 02.05.2023 21:47, Achim Gratz via Cygwin-apps wrote:
> Achim Gratz via Cygwin-apps writes:
>> I'm going to release Perl 5.36.1 to Cygwin in a few days.
> 
> Done.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Achim.

I do not succeed to upgrade.
Setup complains that perl 5.36.1 requires perl_0536 but
nothing provides it

Re: [Attn. MAINTAINERS] Heads up: Perl 5.36.1 is imminent

[Jon Turney]

On 05/05/2023 21:15, Marco Atzeri via Cygwin-apps wrote:
> On 02.05.2023 21:47, Achim Gratz via Cygwin-apps wrote:
>> Achim Gratz via Cygwin-apps writes:
>>> I'm going to release Perl 5.36.1 to Cygwin in a few days.
>>
>> Done.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Achim.
> 
> I do not succeed to upgrade.
> Setup complains that perl 5.36.1 requires perl_0536 but
> nothing provides it

Please can you run setup with '-v', and mail me the setup.log.full?

Re: [Attn. MAINTAINERS] Heads up: Perl 5.36.1 is imminent

[Jon Turney]

On 06/05/2023 06:37, Marco Atzeri wrote:
> On 05.05.2023 22:44, Jon Turney wrote:
>> On 05/05/2023 21:15, Marco Atzeri via Cygwin-apps wrote:
>>> On 02.05.2023 21:47, Achim Gratz via Cygwin-apps wrote:
>>>> Achim Gratz via Cygwin-apps writes:
>>>>> I'm going to release Perl 5.36.1 to Cygwin in a few days.
>>>>
>>>> Done.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Achim.
>>>
>>> I do not succeed to upgrade.
>>> Setup complains that perl 5.36.1 requires perl_0536 but
>>> nothing provides it
>>
>> Please can you run setup with '-v', and mail me the setup.log.full?
>>
> 
> attached

Thanks.

It looks like the conflict is over subversion-perl, which has yet to be 
rebuilt.

If you uninstall that, you should be able to upgrade perl.

I'm not quite sure why that's not indicated as a possible solution in 
the dependency conflict report.

Re: [Attn. MAINTAINERS] Heads up: Perl 5.36.1 is imminent

[Marco Atzeri]

On 06.05.2023 15:12, Jon Turney wrote:
> On 06/05/2023 06:37, Marco Atzeri wrote:
>> On 05.05.2023 22:44, Jon Turney wrote:
>>> On 05/05/2023 21:15, Marco Atzeri via Cygwin-apps wrote:
>>>> On 02.05.2023 21:47, Achim Gratz via Cygwin-apps wrote:
>>>>> Achim Gratz via Cygwin-apps writes:
>>>>>> I'm going to release Perl 5.36.1 to Cygwin in a few days.
>>>>>
>>>>> Done.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Achim.
>>>>
>>>> I do not succeed to upgrade.
>>>> Setup complains that perl 5.36.1 requires perl_0536 but
>>>> nothing provides it
>>>
>>> Please can you run setup with '-v', and mail me the setup.log.full?
>>>
>>
>> attached
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> It looks like the conflict is over subversion-perl, which has yet to be 
> rebuilt.
> 
> If you uninstall that, you should be able to upgrade perl.
> 
> I'm not quite sure why that's not indicated as a possible solution in 
> the dependency conflict report.
> 

only pratical solution seems to force perl and perl_base upgrade
so I can now work to upgrade the packages with perl dependecy

Regards
Marco

Re: [Attn. MAINTAINERS] Heads up: Perl 5.36.1 is imminent

[Jon Turney]

On 01/05/2023 21:00, Achim Gratz via Cygwin-apps wrote:
> 
> I'm going to release Perl 5.36.1 to Cygwin in a few days.  I've skipped
> 5.34 in order to update only every second year (which I've done since
> the 5.22 release).  I haven't seen any trouble in my own Perl
> distribution packages from the update even though there are lots of
> them that haven't been updated since at least 5.22.  So I hope it will
> be smooth sailing for anything else depending on Perl also.
> 
> Any maintainer having packages that depend on perl5_032 should
> re-release or upgrade these soon-ish after the Perl update is available,
> as otherwise users are either blocked from upgrading Perl or will have
> to uninstall the affected packages.  The rebuilt packages need to have a
> dependency on perl5_036, which cygport provides automatically.

There's an updated report available [1], which should list the affected 
packages.

[1] https://cygwin.com/packages/reports/perl_rebuilds.html

Re: [Attn. MAINTAINERS] Heads up: Perl 5.36.1 is imminent

[Achim Gratz]

Jon Turney via Cygwin-apps writes:
> There's an updated report available [1], which should list the
> affected packages.
>
> [1] https://cygwin.com/packages/reports/perl_rebuilds.html

Thanks.  The newly obsolated packages (due to core now recent enough)
are still shown in this list (that's probably to be expected).  The rest
looks like I expected.


Regards,
Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+

Factory and User Sound Singles for Waldorf Q+, Q and microQ:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfSounds

Re: [Attn. MAINTAINERS] Heads up: Perl 5.36.1 is imminent

[Ken Brown]

On 5/2/2023 4:45 PM, Achim Gratz via Cygwin-apps wrote:
> Jon Turney via Cygwin-apps writes:
>> There's an updated report available [1], which should list the
>> affected packages.
>>
>> [1] https://cygwin.com/packages/reports/perl_rebuilds.html
> 
> Thanks.  The newly obsolated packages (due to core now recent enough)
> are still shown in this list (that's probably to be expected).

I wonder if those obsoleted packages are confusing setup.  In a new 
Cygwin installation, choosing only the base packages and cygport, setup 
wants to install perl-Test-Harness (and therefore perl 5.32).  Or maybe 
there's something else causing perl 5.32 to be chosen, but I don't see it.

Ken

Re: [Attn. MAINTAINERS] Heads up: Perl 5.36.1 is imminent

[Jon Turney]

On 03/05/2023 13:19, Ken Brown via Cygwin-apps wrote:
> On 5/2/2023 4:45 PM, Achim Gratz via Cygwin-apps wrote:
>> Jon Turney via Cygwin-apps writes:
>>> There's an updated report available [1], which should list the
>>> affected packages.
>>>
>>> [1] https://cygwin.com/packages/reports/perl_rebuilds.html
>>
>> Thanks.  The newly obsolated packages (due to core now recent enough)
>> are still shown in this list (that's probably to be expected).

Ah, right.  That's probably a flaw in the logic used to generate this 
report, packages which are obsoleted by something else can just be ignored.

> I wonder if those obsoleted packages are confusing setup.  In a new 
> Cygwin installation, choosing only the base packages and cygport, setup 
> wants to install perl-Test-Harness (and therefore perl 5.32).  Or maybe 
> there's something else causing perl 5.32 to be chosen, but I don't see it.

Yeah, there's something weird going on there:

Just adding just perl 5.36 to base seems to work fine.

Adding cygport, pulls in automake-{12,13,14}, which depend on perl-Carp 
or perl-Test-Harness. I'm not sure why the solver then goes on to choose 
those packages, rather than perl_base which obsoletes them.

Re: [Attn. MAINTAINERS] Heads up: Perl 5.36.1 is imminent

[Ken Brown]

On 5/3/2023 9:33 AM, Jon Turney wrote:
> On 03/05/2023 13:19, Ken Brown via Cygwin-apps wrote:
>> I wonder if those obsoleted packages are confusing setup.  In a new 
>> Cygwin installation, choosing only the base packages and cygport, 
>> setup wants to install perl-Test-Harness (and therefore perl 5.32).  
>> Or maybe there's something else causing perl 5.32 to be chosen, but I 
>> don't see it.
> 
> Yeah, there's something weird going on there:
> 
> Just adding just perl 5.36 to base seems to work fine.
> 
> Adding cygport, pulls in automake-{12,13,14}, which depend on perl-Carp 
> or perl-Test-Harness. I'm not sure why the solver then goes on to choose 
> those packages, rather than perl_base which obsoletes them.

Could we work around the problem by removing the dependency of the 
obsolete packages on perl5_032?

Ken

Re: [Attn. MAINTAINERS] Heads up: Perl 5.36.1 is imminent

[Achim Gratz]

Ken Brown via Cygwin-apps writes:
> Could we work around the problem by removing the dependency of the
> obsolete packages on perl5_032?

Please don't.  I'll update automake soon.


Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+

Factory and User Sound Singles for Waldorf Blofeld:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfSounds

Re: [Attn. MAINTAINERS] Heads up: Perl 5.36.1 is imminent

[Achim Gratz]

Achim Gratz via Cygwin-apps writes:
> Ken Brown via Cygwin-apps writes:
>> Could we work around the problem by removing the dependency of the
>> obsolete packages on perl5_032?
>
> Please don't.  I'll update automake soon.

Wait… these packages are not supposed to be dependent on the perl5_0xy
provides, the only Perl dependency should indeed be perl_base since no
version dependency is present.  Did the extra dependency on perl5_032
get auto-generated at some point?  Then please remove it from the hints.

I'll probably need to update the automake packages anyway since they
don't cleanly build anymore due to some changes in where the upstream
patches are.



Regards,
Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+

Wavetables for the Terratec KOMPLEXER:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#KomplexerWaves

Re: [Attn. MAINTAINERS] Heads up: Perl 5.36.1 is imminent

[Achim Gratz]

Jon Turney via Cygwin-apps writes:
> Just adding just perl 5.36 to base seems to work fine.
>
> Adding cygport, pulls in automake-{12,13,14}, which depend on
> perl-Carp or perl-Test-Harness. I'm not sure why the solver then goes
> on to choose those packages, rather than perl_base which obsoletes
> them.

You may need to tell libsolv to reconsider the information it has based
on the chosen (default) solution.  THe solution it currently offers is
correct with both the intial information and the one after the solution
has been found, so there is no need for a satisfability solver to
continue.  If you were to use zypper you'd see several more solutions
offered and it can be quite hard to figure out without trying which one
is going to cause the least amount of changes.


Regards,
Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+

Factory and User Sound Singles for Waldorf rackAttack:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfSounds

Re: [Attn. MAINTAINERS] Heads up: Perl 5.36.1 is imminent

[Ken Brown]

On 5/3/2023 8:19 AM, Ken Brown via Cygwin-apps wrote:
> I wonder if those obsoleted packages are confusing setup.  In a new 
> Cygwin installation, choosing only the base packages and cygport, setup 
> wants to install perl-Test-Harness (and therefore perl 5.32).

I just tried a second experiment (with a new installation).  I chose 
base plus perl-Test-Harness.  Setup didn't report any problems; it 
simply added perl 5.32, and I let it complete the installation.  I then 
ran setup again, and the Pending view of the Select Packages page showed 
perl being upgraded to 5.36 and perl-Test-Harness being uninstalled.

So setup ended up doing the right thing with respect to the obsolete 
package, but it needed two passes.

Finally, I reran setup and chose cygport for installation.  This went 
through without a hitch.

Ken

Re: [Attn. MAINTAINERS] Heads up: Perl 5.36.1 is imminent

[Jon Turney]

On 03/05/2023 23:01, Ken Brown via Cygwin-apps wrote:
> On 5/3/2023 8:19 AM, Ken Brown via Cygwin-apps wrote:
>> I wonder if those obsoleted packages are confusing setup.  In a new 
>> Cygwin installation, choosing only the base packages and cygport, 
>> setup wants to install perl-Test-Harness (and therefore perl 5.32).
> 
> I just tried a second experiment (with a new installation).  I chose 
> base plus perl-Test-Harness.  Setup didn't report any problems; it 
> simply added perl 5.32, and I let it complete the installation.  I then 
> ran setup again, and the Pending view of the Select Packages page showed 
> perl being upgraded to 5.36 and perl-Test-Harness being uninstalled.
> 
> So setup ended up doing the right thing with respect to the obsolete 
> package, but it needed two passes.
> 
> Finally, I reran setup and chose cygport for installation.  This went 
> through without a hitch.

I took the perl-Test-Harness dependency off automake (since Achim told 
me it was unneeded) around 21:00 UTC on the 03-05-2023

To me, it seems like both that, and an updated texinfo, were needed 
before installing cygport was possible, but I don't really understand why.

(There's definitely a problematic dependency chain cygport -> automake 
-> automake1.* -> texinfo -> versioned perl which we need to be aware of 
in future when rebuilding texinfo for updated perl)

I also noticed that the latest version of libsolv has a new API for 
getting the solver to explain it's decisions, so it might be nice at 
some stage to add some code to setup to use that and write what it says 
to the log (and then maybe go back and see what it says about the 
problematic circa).

Re: [Attn. MAINTAINERS] Heads up: Perl 5.36.1 is imminent

[Ken Brown]

On 5/6/2023 9:34 AM, Jon Turney wrote:
> (There's definitely a problematic dependency chain cygport -> automake 
> -> automake1.* -> texinfo -> versioned perl which we need to be aware of 
> in future when rebuilding texinfo for updated perl)

In addition to the dependencies above, there's actually a direct 
dependency cygport -> texinfo.

I was aware of this when rebuilding texinfo, after an initial failed 
attempt using SCALLYWAG.  The way I dealt with it was to forcibly update 
perl, ignoring setup's warnings.  I don't know if there's a better way 
to handle this in the future.  Maybe temporarily (or permanently?) 
remove those dependencies on texinfo?

Ken

Re: [Attn. MAINTAINERS] Heads up: Perl 5.36.1 is imminent

[Jon Turney]

On 06/05/2023 19:31, Ken Brown via Cygwin-apps wrote:
> On 5/6/2023 9:34 AM, Jon Turney wrote:
>> (There's definitely a problematic dependency chain cygport -> automake 
>> -> automake1.* -> texinfo -> versioned perl which we need to be aware 
>> of in future when rebuilding texinfo for updated perl)
> 
> In addition to the dependencies above, there's actually a direct 
> dependency cygport -> texinfo.

Doh, right!

> I was aware of this when rebuilding texinfo, after an initial failed 
> attempt using SCALLYWAG.  The way I dealt with it was to forcibly update 
> perl, ignoring setup's warnings.  I don't know if there's a better way 
> to handle this in the future.  Maybe temporarily (or permanently?) 
> remove those dependencies on texinfo?

I think perhaps that maybe making those dependencies of cygport 
'suggests'/'recommended' (if we implemented that) rather than 'depends', 
as that would let the solver consider solutions without those packages 
installed.

I think would be ok, as texinfo doesn't actually require itself to build?

(There are perhaps a few packages which do have a real self-build-dep, 
but those are probably harder to build anyhow, and it should be 
explicitly recorded in build-requires?)

Re: [Attn. MAINTAINERS] Heads up: Perl 5.36.1 is imminent

[Achim Gratz]

Jon Turney via Cygwin-apps writes:
> There's an updated report available [1], which should list the
> affected packages.
>
> [1] https://cygwin.com/packages/reports/perl_rebuilds.html

That list has shrunk a bit.  The following packages should have priority
in getting updates/re-releases, I think:

subversion
weechat
hexchat
znc


Regards,
Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+

SD adaptations for KORG EX-800 and Poly-800MkII V0.9:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#KorgSDada

Re: [Attn. MAINTAINERS] Heads up: Perl 5.36.1 is imminent

[Jon Turney]

On 02/05/2023 21:34, Jon Turney via Cygwin-apps wrote:
> On 01/05/2023 21:00, Achim Gratz via Cygwin-apps wrote:
>>
>> I'm going to release Perl 5.36.1 to Cygwin in a few days.  I've skipped
>> 5.34 in order to update only every second year (which I've done since
>> the 5.22 release).  I haven't seen any trouble in my own Perl
>> distribution packages from the update even though there are lots of
>> them that haven't been updated since at least 5.22.  So I hope it will
>> be smooth sailing for anything else depending on Perl also.
>>
>> Any maintainer having packages that depend on perl5_032 should
>> re-release or upgrade these soon-ish after the Perl update is available,
>> as otherwise users are either blocked from upgrading Perl or will have
>> to uninstall the affected packages.  The rebuilt packages need to have a
>> dependency on perl5_036, which cygport provides automatically.
> 
> There's an updated report available [1], which should list the affected 
> packages.
> 
> [1] https://cygwin.com/packages/reports/perl_rebuilds.html
> 

Hi Jari,

Is it possible to get a rebuild/update of pristine-tar and sendxmpp for 
perl5.36?

TIA.

Re: [Attn. MAINTAINERS] Heads up: Perl 5.36.1 is imminent

[Jon Turney]

On 23/10/2023 19:53, Jon Turney via Cygwin-apps wrote:
> On 02/05/2023 21:34, Jon Turney via Cygwin-apps wrote:
>> On 01/05/2023 21:00, Achim Gratz via Cygwin-apps wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm going to release Perl 5.36.1 to Cygwin in a few days.  I've skipped
>>> 5.34 in order to update only every second year (which I've done since
>>> the 5.22 release).  I haven't seen any trouble in my own Perl
>>> distribution packages from the update even though there are lots of
>>> them that haven't been updated since at least 5.22.  So I hope it will
>>> be smooth sailing for anything else depending on Perl also.
>>>
>>> Any maintainer having packages that depend on perl5_032 should
>>> re-release or upgrade these soon-ish after the Perl update is available,
>>> as otherwise users are either blocked from upgrading Perl or will have
>>> to uninstall the affected packages.  The rebuilt packages need to have a
>>> dependency on perl5_036, which cygport provides automatically.
>>
>> There's an updated report available [1], which should list the 
>> affected packages.
>>
>> [1] https://cygwin.com/packages/reports/perl_rebuilds.html
>>
> 
> Hi Jari,
> 
> Is it possible to get a rebuild/update of pristine-tar and sendxmpp for 
> perl5.36?

Ping?

Please indicate if these packages will be updated, or should be removed.

Re: [Attn. MAINTAINERS] Heads up: Perl 5.36.1 is imminent

[Jon Turney]

On 15/12/2023 17:15, Jon Turney via Cygwin-apps wrote:
> On 23/10/2023 19:53, Jon Turney via Cygwin-apps wrote:
>> On 02/05/2023 21:34, Jon Turney via Cygwin-apps wrote:
>>> On 01/05/2023 21:00, Achim Gratz via Cygwin-apps wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm going to release Perl 5.36.1 to Cygwin in a few days.  I've skipped
>>>> 5.34 in order to update only every second year (which I've done since
>>>> the 5.22 release).  I haven't seen any trouble in my own Perl
>>>> distribution packages from the update even though there are lots of
>>>> them that haven't been updated since at least 5.22.  So I hope it will
>>>> be smooth sailing for anything else depending on Perl also.
>>>>
>>>> Any maintainer having packages that depend on perl5_032 should
>>>> re-release or upgrade these soon-ish after the Perl update is 
>>>> available,
>>>> as otherwise users are either blocked from upgrading Perl or will have
>>>> to uninstall the affected packages.  The rebuilt packages need to 
>>>> have a
>>>> dependency on perl5_036, which cygport provides automatically.
>>>
>>> There's an updated report available [1], which should list the 
>>> affected packages.
>>>
>>> [1] https://cygwin.com/packages/reports/perl_rebuilds.html
>>>
>>
>> Hi Jari,
>>
>> Is it possible to get a rebuild/update of pristine-tar and sendxmpp 
>> for perl5.36?

On further examination, it seems that sendxmpp is mistakenly identified 
as having a dependency on a particular version of perl, due to the 
presence of a 
/usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.32/x86_64-cygwin-threads/auto/sendxmpp/.packlist 
file, which probably shouldn't be in the package.

So, I've dropped that dependency from sendxmpp.

> 
> Ping?
> 
> Please indicate if these packages will be updated, or should be removed.

In the absence of any response, I have removed pristine-tar, the last 
remaining package depending on perl 5.32, so people who install 
everything (against our advice) aren't potentially forced down onto an 
old perl.

I will assume it is orphaned unless you say otherwise.

If that's not what you wanted to happen, please let me know.