* Windows10 Creators Update
@ 2017-07-16 8:36 Achim Gratz
2017-07-16 9:10 ` Achim Gratz
0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
From: Achim Gratz @ 2017-07-16 8:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: cygwin-apps
I've finally got that update installed on my Windows10 box and sure
enough I immediately got fork problems (on 32bit only). Since this
update the WoW64 DLLs get mapped below 0x70000000:
6AF30000-6AF31000 r--p 00000000 0000:0000 0 /cygdrive/c/Windows/System32/wow64.dll
6AF31000-6AF63000 r-xp 00001000 0000:0000 0 /cygdrive/c/Windows/System32/wow64.dll
6AF63000-6AF77000 r--p 00033000 0000:0000 0 /cygdrive/c/Windows/System32/wow64.dll
6AF77000-6AF79000 rw-p 00047000 0000:0000 0 /cygdrive/c/Windows/System32/wow64.dll
6AF79000-6AF81000 r--p 00049000 0000:0000 0 /cygdrive/c/Windows/System32/wow64.dll
6AF90000-6AF91000 r--p 00000000 0000:0000 0 /cygdrive/c/Windows/System32/wow64win.dll
6AF91000-6AFCC000 r-xp 00001000 0000:0000 0 /cygdrive/c/Windows/System32/wow64win.dll
6AFCC000-6AFF2000 r--p 0003C000 0000:0000 0 /cygdrive/c/Windows/System32/wow64win.dll
6AFF2000-6AFF5000 rw-p 00062000 0000:0000 0 /cygdrive/c/Windows/System32/wow64win.dll
6AFF5000-6B003000 r--p 00065000 0000:0000 0 /cygdrive/c/Windows/System32/wow64win.dll
6B010000-6B011000 r--p 00000000 0000:0000 0 /cygdrive/c/Windows/System32/wow64cpu.dll
6B011000-6B014000 r-xp 00001000 0000:0000 0 /cygdrive/c/Windows/System32/wow64cpu.dll
6B014000-6B015000 r--p 00004000 0000:0000 0 /cygdrive/c/Windows/System32/wow64cpu.dll
6B015000-6B016000 rw-p 00005000 0000:0000 0 /cygdrive/c/Windows/System32/wow64cpu.dll
6B016000-6B017000 r--p 00006000 0000:0000 0 /cygdrive/c/Windows/System32/wow64cpu.dll
6B017000-6B018000 r-xp 00007000 0000:0000 0 /cygdrive/c/Windows/System32/wow64cpu.dll
6B018000-6B01A000 r--p 00008000 0000:0000 0 /cygdrive/c/Windows/System32/wow64cpu.dll
76BF0000-76BF1000 r--p 00000000 4EDD:67E9 3096224744080878 /cygdrive/c/Windows/SysWOW64/KernelBase.dll
76BF1000-76D81000 r-xp 00001000 4EDD:67E9 3096224744080878 /cygdrive/c/Windows/SysWOW64/KernelBase.dll
76D81000-76D85000 rw-p 00191000 4EDD:67E9 3096224744080878 /cygdrive/c/Windows/SysWOW64/KernelBase.dll
76D85000-76DB2000 r--p 00195000 4EDD:67E9 3096224744080878 /cygdrive/c/Windows/SysWOW64/KernelBase.dll
776F0000-776F1000 r--p 00000000 4EDD:67E9 844424930399083 /cygdrive/c/Windows/SysWOW64/kernel32.dll
776F1000-77700000 ===p 00001000 4EDD:67E9 844424930399083 /cygdrive/c/Windows/SysWOW64/kernel32.dll
77700000-77760000 r-xp 00010000 4EDD:67E9 844424930399083 /cygdrive/c/Windows/SysWOW64/kernel32.dll
77760000-77787000 r--p 00070000 4EDD:67E9 844424930399083 /cygdrive/c/Windows/SysWOW64/kernel32.dll
77787000-77790000 ===p 00097000 4EDD:67E9 844424930399083 /cygdrive/c/Windows/SysWOW64/kernel32.dll
77790000-77791000 rw-p 000A0000 4EDD:67E9 844424930399083 /cygdrive/c/Windows/SysWOW64/kernel32.dll
77791000-777A0000 ===p 000A1000 4EDD:67E9 844424930399083 /cygdrive/c/Windows/SysWOW64/kernel32.dll
777A0000-777A1000 r--p 000B0000 4EDD:67E9 844424930399083 /cygdrive/c/Windows/SysWOW64/kernel32.dll
777A1000-777B0000 ===p 000B1000 4EDD:67E9 844424930399083 /cygdrive/c/Windows/SysWOW64/kernel32.dll
777B0000-777B5000 r--p 000C0000 4EDD:67E9 844424930399083 /cygdrive/c/Windows/SysWOW64/kernel32.dll
777B5000-777C0000 ===p 000C5000 4EDD:67E9 844424930399083 /cygdrive/c/Windows/SysWOW64/kernel32.dll
777C0000-777C1000 r--p 00000000 4EDD:67E9 1970324837087411 /cygdrive/c/Windows/SysWOW64/ntdll.dll
777C1000-778D5000 r-xp 00001000 4EDD:67E9 1970324837087411 /cygdrive/c/Windows/SysWOW64/ntdll.dll
778D5000-778D9000 rw-p 00115000 4EDD:67E9 1970324837087411 /cygdrive/c/Windows/SysWOW64/ntdll.dll
778D9000-7794E000 r--p 00119000 4EDD:67E9 1970324837087411 /cygdrive/c/Windows/SysWOW64/ntdll.dll
RIght after the update these two DLL were mapped even lower, but another
reboot shifted them to the addresses shown.
On Windows 8.1 it rather looked like this:
74FC0000-74FC1000 r--p 00000000 A236:AB5B 844424930322587 /cygdrive/c/Windows/SysWOW64/kernel32.dll
74FC1000-74FD0000 ===p 00001000 A236:AB5B 844424930322587 /cygdrive/c/Windows/SysWOW64/kernel32.dll
74FD0000-75038000 r-xp 00010000 A236:AB5B 844424930322587 /cygdrive/c/Windows/SysWOW64/kernel32.dll
75038000-75040000 ===p 00078000 A236:AB5B 844424930322587 /cygdrive/c/Windows/SysWOW64/kernel32.dll
75040000-750C0000 r--p 00080000 A236:AB5B 844424930322587 /cygdrive/c/Windows/SysWOW64/kernel32.dll
750C0000-750C1000 rw-p 00100000 A236:AB5B 844424930322587 /cygdrive/c/Windows/SysWOW64/kernel32.dll
750C1000-750D0000 ===p 00101000 A236:AB5B 844424930322587 /cygdrive/c/Windows/SysWOW64/kernel32.dll
750D0000-750D1000 r--p 00110000 A236:AB5B 844424930322587 /cygdrive/c/Windows/SysWOW64/kernel32.dll
750D1000-750E0000 ===p 00111000 A236:AB5B 844424930322587 /cygdrive/c/Windows/SysWOW64/kernel32.dll
750E0000-750F3000 r--p 00120000 A236:AB5B 844424930322587 /cygdrive/c/Windows/SysWOW64/kernel32.dll
750F3000-75100000 ===p 00133000 A236:AB5B 844424930322587 /cygdrive/c/Windows/SysWOW64/kernel32.dll
75540000-75541000 r--p 00000000 A236:AB5B 2251799813866438 /cygdrive/c/Windows/SysWOW64/KernelBase.dll
75541000-75603000 r-xp 00001000 A236:AB5B 2251799813866438 /cygdrive/c/Windows/SysWOW64/KernelBase.dll
75603000-75606000 rw-p 000C3000 A236:AB5B 2251799813866438 /cygdrive/c/Windows/SysWOW64/KernelBase.dll
75606000-75617000 r--p 000C6000 A236:AB5B 2251799813866438 /cygdrive/c/Windows/SysWOW64/KernelBase.dll
76ED0000-76ED1000 r--p 00000000 0000:0000 0 /cygdrive/c/Windows/System32/wow64cpu.dll
76ED1000-76ED4000 r-xp 00001000 0000:0000 0 /cygdrive/c/Windows/System32/wow64cpu.dll
76ED4000-76ED5000 rw-p 00004000 0000:0000 0 /cygdrive/c/Windows/System32/wow64cpu.dll
76ED5000-76ED9000 r--p 00005000 0000:0000 0 /cygdrive/c/Windows/System32/wow64cpu.dll
76EE0000-76EE1000 r--p 00000000 0000:0000 0 /cygdrive/c/Windows/System32/wow64.dll
76EE1000-76F1C000 r-xp 00001000 0000:0000 0 /cygdrive/c/Windows/System32/wow64.dll
76F1C000-76F1E000 rw-p 0003C000 0000:0000 0 /cygdrive/c/Windows/System32/wow64.dll
76F1E000-76F2B000 r--p 0003E000 0000:0000 0 /cygdrive/c/Windows/System32/wow64.dll
76F30000-76F31000 r--p 00000000 0000:0000 0 /cygdrive/c/Windows/System32/wow64win.dll
76F31000-76F85000 r-xp 00001000 0000:0000 0 /cygdrive/c/Windows/System32/wow64win.dll
76F85000-76F8A000 rw-p 00055000 0000:0000 0 /cygdrive/c/Windows/System32/wow64win.dll
76F8A000-76F98000 r--p 0005A000 0000:0000 0 /cygdrive/c/Windows/System32/wow64win.dll
76FA0000-76FA1000 r--p 00000000 A236:AB5B 844424930329613 /cygdrive/c/Windows/SysWOW64/ntdll.dll
76FA1000-770A0000 r-xp 00001000 A236:AB5B 844424930329613 /cygdrive/c/Windows/SysWOW64/ntdll.dll
770A0000-770A4000 rw-p 00100000 A236:AB5B 844424930329613 /cygdrive/c/Windows/SysWOW64/ntdll.dll
770A4000-7710F000 r--p 00104000 A236:AB5B 844424930329613 /cygdrive/c/Windows/SysWOW64/ntdll.dll
In all likelyhood that means we can't really support 32bit on Windows 10
anymore unless there's a way to stabilize the addresses used by these
DLL and then teaching rebaselst to rebase from a lower starting point.
Regards,
Achim.
--
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+
SD adaptation for Waldorf microQ V2.22R2:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfSDada
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* Re: Windows10 Creators Update
2017-07-16 8:36 Windows10 Creators Update Achim Gratz
@ 2017-07-16 9:10 ` Achim Gratz
2017-07-17 8:09 ` Corinna Vinschen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
From: Achim Gratz @ 2017-07-16 9:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: cygwin-apps
Achim Gratz writes:
> I've finally got that update installed on my Windows10 box and sure
> enough I immediately got fork problems (on 32bit only). Since this
> update the WoW64 DLLs get mapped below 0x70000000:
…and on each reboot these end up somewhere else, sometimes even above
0x7000000 as intended.
> In all likelyhood that means we can't really support 32bit on Windows 10
> anymore unless there's a way to stabilize the addresses used by these
> DLL and then teaching rebaselst to rebase from a lower starting point.
Or we will have to ask our users to reboot more often. :-(
Regards,
Achim.
--
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+
Wavetables for the Terratec KOMPLEXER:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#KomplexerWaves
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* Re: Windows10 Creators Update
2017-07-16 9:10 ` Achim Gratz
@ 2017-07-17 8:09 ` Corinna Vinschen
2017-07-17 8:31 ` Corinna Vinschen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
From: Corinna Vinschen @ 2017-07-17 8:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: cygwin-apps
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On Jul 16 11:10, Achim Gratz wrote:
> Achim Gratz writes:
> > I've finally got that update installed on my Windows10 box and sure
> > enough I immediately got fork problems (on 32bit only). Since this
> > update the WoW64 DLLs get mapped below 0x70000000:
>
> …and on each reboot these end up somewhere else, sometimes even above
> 0x7000000 as intended.
It seems the Windows team raised the size of the ASLR pool on 32 bit, at
least on wow64.
> > In all likelyhood that means we can't really support 32bit on Windows 10
> > anymore unless there's a way to stabilize the addresses used by these
> > DLL and then teaching rebaselst to rebase from a lower starting point.
>
> Or we will have to ask our users to reboot more often. :-(
Sounds like a plan.
On Wow64 we have the upper 2 Gigs address space for us, but I vaguely
recall that there was a problem moving the DLLs into this area. That's
why we only have heap and mmap there these days. Maybe we should
reconsider...
But, then again, what's the lowest address for the wow64 DLLs you
observed? And what about native 32 bit (no wow64 DLLs)?
We can't stabilize the address for the Windows DLLs, but we
can obviously adapt to it by changing rebase.
Corinna
--
Corinna Vinschen Please, send mails regarding Cygwin to
Cygwin Maintainer cygwin AT cygwin DOT com
Red Hat
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* Re: Windows10 Creators Update
2017-07-17 8:09 ` Corinna Vinschen
@ 2017-07-17 8:31 ` Corinna Vinschen
2017-07-17 17:41 ` Achim Gratz
0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
From: Corinna Vinschen @ 2017-07-17 8:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: cygwin-apps
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1635 bytes --]
On Jul 17 10:09, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
> On Jul 16 11:10, Achim Gratz wrote:
> > Achim Gratz writes:
> > > I've finally got that update installed on my Windows10 box and sure
> > > enough I immediately got fork problems (on 32bit only). Since this
> > > update the WoW64 DLLs get mapped below 0x70000000:
> >
> > …and on each reboot these end up somewhere else, sometimes even above
> > 0x7000000 as intended.
>
> It seems the Windows team raised the size of the ASLR pool on 32 bit, at
> least on wow64.
>
> > > In all likelyhood that means we can't really support 32bit on Windows 10
> > > anymore unless there's a way to stabilize the addresses used by these
> > > DLL and then teaching rebaselst to rebase from a lower starting point.
> >
> > Or we will have to ask our users to reboot more often. :-(
>
> Sounds like a plan.
>
> On Wow64 we have the upper 2 Gigs address space for us, but I vaguely
> recall that there was a problem moving the DLLs into this area. That's
> why we only have heap and mmap there these days. Maybe we should
> reconsider...
>
> But, then again, what's the lowest address for the wow64 DLLs you
> observed? And what about native 32 bit (no wow64 DLLs)?
On native 32 bit:
6B1E0000-6B1E1000 r--p 00000000 5A70:6C49 2814749767187753 /cygdrive/c/Windows/System32/winrnr.dll
> We can't stabilize the address for the Windows DLLs, but we
> can obviously adapt to it by changing rebase.
Corinna
--
Corinna Vinschen Please, send mails regarding Cygwin to
Cygwin Maintainer cygwin AT cygwin DOT com
Red Hat
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* Re: Windows10 Creators Update
2017-07-17 8:31 ` Corinna Vinschen
@ 2017-07-17 17:41 ` Achim Gratz
0 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: Achim Gratz @ 2017-07-17 17:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: cygwin-apps
Corinna Vinschen writes:
>> But, then again, what's the lowest address for the wow64 DLLs you
>> observed? And what about native 32 bit (no wow64 DLLs)?
I can't test native 32bit easily (have to request a test hardware at
work), all my systems at home are 64bit/WoW64 combos.
On WoW64, the lowest I've seen was this:
58E60000-58E61000 r--p 00000000 0000:0000 0 /cygdrive/c/Windows/System32/wow64.dll
This was after update and before reboot.
The lowest I've seen after clean reboots was somwhere around 0x6A000000,
IIRC.
>> We can't stabilize the address for the Windows DLLs, but we
>> can obviously adapt to it by changing rebase.
But that restricts and already strained resource. I _think_
(i.e. haven't checked) it'd be almost impossible to still get one of the
desktop environments running if we did that.
Regards,
Achim.
--
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+
SD adaptations for KORG EX-800 and Poly-800MkII V0.9:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#KorgSDada
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
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2017-07-16 8:36 Windows10 Creators Update Achim Gratz
2017-07-16 9:10 ` Achim Gratz
2017-07-17 8:09 ` Corinna Vinschen
2017-07-17 8:31 ` Corinna Vinschen
2017-07-17 17:41 ` Achim Gratz
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