Privilege(s) needed to run top command

Privilege(s) needed to run top command

[jwang]

This is used to work for a ordinary login.

After re-install, top does not show the true load et al.  Nor processes
owned by SYSTEM.

Please shed some light.

Thanks a lot in advance



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Re: Privilege(s) needed to run top command

[L A Walsh]

On 3/11/2019 9:50 AM, jwang wrote:
> This is used to work for a ordinary login.
>
> After re-install, top does not show the true load et al.  Nor processes
> owned by SYSTEM.
>
> Please shed some light.  Thanks a lot in advance.
>   
You mean this:

top - 13:26:15 up 1 day, 16:13,  1 user,  load average: 4.91, 7.22, 7.72
Tasks:  12 total,   1 running,  11 sleeping,   0 stopped,   0 zombie
%Cpu(s):  15.4/1.3   
17[                                                     ]
GiB Mem : 15.9/95.651  
[                                                     ]
GiB Swap:  0.0/95.651  
[                                                     ]
 
  PID USER      PR  NI    VIRT    RES  %CPU %MEM     TIME+ S
COMMAND           
 2016 SYSTEM     8   0    8.4m   8.2m   0.0  0.0   0:00.03 S
cygrunsrv         
 2017 SYSTEM     8   0    9.8m   9.1m   0.0  0.0   3:09.82 S  `-
cygserver     
 2018 SYSTEM     8   0    8.3m   7.8m   0.0  0.0   0:00.00 S
cygrunsrv         
 2019 SYSTEM     8   0    7.1m   6.9m   0.0  0.0   0:00.09 S  `-
dbus-daemon   
 2023 SYSTEM     8   0    6.9m   6.9m   0.0  0.0   0:00.03 S
syslogd           
 2028 Bliss\l+   8   0    7.6m   7.1m   0.0  0.0   0:00.00 S
inetd             
13134 Bliss\l+   8   0    7.0m   7.1m   0.0  0.0   0:00.06 S  `-
rlogind       
13135 Bliss\l+   8   0    8.8m  10.2m   0.0  0.0   0:00.49 S      `-
bash      
13267 Bliss\l+   8   0   10.2m  10.2m   3.0  0.0   0:02.68 R          `-
top   
 2046 Bliss\l+   8   0  154.6m 137.2m   0.0  0.1  19:23.48 S
XWin              
 2187 Bliss\l+   8   0    7.4m   7.4m   0.0  0.0   0:00.31 S
sshd              
 2514 Bliss\l+   8   0    9.6m  19.6m   0.0  0.0   0:00.40 S gvim
----

Did you mean that it doesn't show non-cygwin processes? or does your 'top'
really not display cygwin's SYSTEM processes?


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Re: Privilege(s) needed to run top command

[Achim Gratz]

jwang writes:
> This is used to work for a ordinary login.
>
> After re-install, top does not show the true load et al.  Nor processes
> owned by SYSTEM.
>
> Please shed some light.

Cygwin is a user-space layer.  It can't show you information that the
underlying OS determines to be off-limits for you.


Regards,
Achim.
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Re: Privilege(s) needed to run top command

[Corinna Vinschen]

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On Mar 11 21:41, Achim Gratz wrote:
> jwang writes:
> > This is used to work for a ordinary login.
> >
> > After re-install, top does not show the true load et al.  Nor processes
> > owned by SYSTEM.
> >
> > Please shed some light.
> 
> Cygwin is a user-space layer.  It can't show you information that the
> underlying OS determines to be off-limits for you.

And I just checked, even under Cygwin 2.11.2, procps and top were
not showing foreign processes if you're running under a non-admin
user account or a non-elevated shell, so this is nothing new.

In fact, `procps' at least tries to access /proc/<PID>/stat.  This
doesn't return valid information because it has to be able to open a
process with PROCESS_QUERY_LIMITED_INFORMATION and PROCESS_VM_READ
permissions.  No ordinary user has these permissions on processes she
doesn't own.(*)

However, Cygwin's `ps -e' was supposed to show all processes, but
it didn't anymore since I created helper objects in the NT namespace
with insufficient privileges for everyone.  I pushed a patch and
uploaded new developer snapshots to https://cywin.com/snapshots/
for testing.


Thanks,
Corinna

(*) That doesn't mean it's not possible.  In theory all Cygwin
    processes could be opened to allow everyone
    PROCESS_QUERY_LIMITED_INFORMATION access, which would at least
    fill most of /proc/<PID>/stat for foreign processes.
    However, we never did that, so it can't have worked yet.

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Re: Privilege(s) needed to run top command

[Achim Gratz]

Corinna Vinschen writes:
> (*) That doesn't mean it's not possible.  In theory all Cygwin
>     processes could be opened to allow everyone
>     PROCESS_QUERY_LIMITED_INFORMATION access, which would at least
>     fill most of /proc/<PID>/stat for foreign processes.
>     However, we never did that, so it can't have worked yet.

Could we make it work under the condition that cygserver is running?


Regards,
Achim.
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Re: Privilege(s) needed to run top command

[Andrey Repin]

Greetings, Achim Gratz!

> Corinna Vinschen writes:
>> (*) That doesn't mean it's not possible.  In theory all Cygwin
>>     processes could be opened to allow everyone
>>     PROCESS_QUERY_LIMITED_INFORMATION access, which would at least
>>     fill most of /proc/<PID>/stat for foreign processes.
>>     However, we never did that, so it can't have worked yet.

> Could we make it work under the condition that cygserver is running?

cygserver is not necessarily running with localsystem privileges, though, if
I'm not mistaken.


-- 
With best regards,
Andrey Repin
Tuesday, March 12, 2019 3:16:37

Sorry for my terrible english...


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Re: Privilege(s) needed to run top command

[Corinna Vinschen]

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On Mar 11 22:40, Achim Gratz wrote:
> Corinna Vinschen writes:
> > (*) That doesn't mean it's not possible.  In theory all Cygwin
> >     processes could be opened to allow everyone
> >     PROCESS_QUERY_LIMITED_INFORMATION access, which would at least
> >     fill most of /proc/<PID>/stat for foreign processes.
> >     However, we never did that, so it can't have worked yet.
> 
> Could we make it work under the condition that cygserver is running?

If this functionality is really necessary, it should ideally work
without having a service running.

Another, easier way out would be to allow /proc/<PID>/stat (and perhaps
others) to succeed even if the process info can't be grabbed due to
permissions.  It wouldn't show really useful info, but procps or top
would at least show the process.


Corinna

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Re: Privilege(s) needed to run top command

[jwang]

It used to work.
<http://cygwin.1069669.n5.nabble.com/file/t11507/cygwin_top_issue.png> 

As can be seen from above screenshot, CPU load is 0! (when login as an
Administrator , it shows about 1)

ps -e (or ps -W) no longer shows processes such as cron and sshd et al owned
by SYSTEM 



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Re: Privilege(s) needed to run top command

[Corinna Vinschen]

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On Mar 12 02:41, jwang wrote:
> It used to work.
> <http://cygwin.1069669.n5.nabble.com/file/t11507/cygwin_top_issue.png> 
> 
> As can be seen from above screenshot, CPU load is 0! (when login as an
> Administrator , it shows about 1)
> 
> ps -e (or ps -W) no longer shows processes such as cron and sshd et al owned
> by SYSTEM 

Try the latest snapshot from https://cygwin.com/snapshots/

It re-enables ps output and improves procps and top output.  Note
that not all information in /proc is available since that requires
permissions normal users don't have on foreign processes.


Corinna

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Cygwin Maintainer

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Re: Privilege(s) needed to run top command

[jwang]

After last weekend update, I believe I had already the latest version
installed:

lc cygwin1.dll|xargs ls -lsa
3412 -rwxr-xr-x 1 admin None 3489952 Mar  5 18:59 /bin/cygwin1.dll
3412 -rwxr-xr-x 1 admin None 3489952 Mar  5 18:59 /usr/bin/cygwin1.dll





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Re: Privilege(s) needed to run top command

[Houder]

On Tue, 12 Mar 2019 04:55:01, jwang  wrote:
> After last weekend update, I believe I had already the latest version
> installed:
> 
> lc cygwin1.dll|xargs ls -lsa
> 3412 -rwxr-xr-x 1 admin None 3489952 Mar  5 18:59 /bin/cygwin1.dll
> 3412 -rwxr-xr-x 1 admin None 3489952 Mar  5 18:59 /usr/bin/cygwin1.dll

https://cygwin.com/snapshots/

Henri


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Re: Privilege(s) needed to run top command

[jwang]

I downloaded the latest snapshots and it did not make any difference.
Thanks



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Re: Privilege(s) needed to run top command

[Corinna Vinschen]

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On Mar 12 08:45, jwang wrote:
> I downloaded the latest snapshots and it did not make any difference.

It certainly does.  I'm testing this myself.  In a session of a
non-privileged user I now see all other Cygwin processes in ps, procps
and top.   I see processes from another RDP session as well as the
processes running under SYSTEM.'

What exactly is missing?


Corinna

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Re: Privilege(s) needed to run top command

[jwang]

Sir,

I download, this morning:
3132 -rw-r--r--  1 james None 3207004 Mar 12 10:50 cygwin-20190312.tar.xz

tar -xvf cygwin-20190312.tar.xz

then I did: 

usr/bin/ps -W|grep httpd

nothing returned from the above command.



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Re: Privilege(s) needed to run top command

[Corinna Vinschen]

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On Mar 12 10:00, jwang wrote:
> Sir,

Nope.

> I download, this morning:
> 3132 -rw-r--r--  1 james None 3207004 Mar 12 10:50 cygwin-20190312.tar.xz
> 
> tar -xvf cygwin-20190312.tar.xz

Where to?  You have to install cygwin1.dll in place of the other
cygwin1.dll while having stopped all Cygwin processes.  Just unpacking
with tar won't do anything useful.

> then I did: 
> 
> usr/bin/ps -W|grep httpd

This is really not helpful as far as bug reports go.  Drop the
grep, drop the -W.  Just call `ps -e' or `procps -e' or `top'
and see what's visible.  Do you see all CYgwin processes?  If so, fine.
If not, please report details.  Just don't expect top's load average
values to make any sense if you're running under a non-privileged
user account.  They will be always 0.


Corinna

-- 
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Cygwin Maintainer

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Re: Privilege(s) needed to run top command

[jwang]

Understood.  Thanks.

However, top command used to show load average under non-privileged user
(till I upgraded cygwin) and I wish to have that back please if I may.

Thanks a lot for your help



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Re: Privilege(s) needed to run top command

[Corinna Vinschen]

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On Mar 12 18:13, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
> On Mar 12 10:00, jwang wrote:
> > Sir,
> 
> Nope.
> 
> > I download, this morning:
> > 3132 -rw-r--r--  1 james None 3207004 Mar 12 10:50 cygwin-20190312.tar.xz
> > 
> > tar -xvf cygwin-20190312.tar.xz
> 
> Where to?  You have to install cygwin1.dll in place of the other
> cygwin1.dll while having stopped all Cygwin processes.  Just unpacking
> with tar won't do anything useful.
> 
> > then I did: 
> > 
> > usr/bin/ps -W|grep httpd
> 
> This is really not helpful as far as bug reports go.  Drop the
> grep, drop the -W.  Just call `ps -e' or `procps -e' or `top'
> and see what's visible.  Do you see all CYgwin processes?  If so, fine.
> If not, please report details.  Just don't expect top's load average
> values to make any sense if you're running under a non-privileged
> user account.  They will be always 0.

Btw., `ps -W' only shows non-Cygwin processes visible inside the
current user session.  This session isolation has been introduced with
Windows 2003 and since Vista even the console interactive session is
running in its own session distinct from session 0.

Task Manager doesn't suffer this problem, but it's not clear to me why.
Perhaps it connects to a broker service which gives task manager access
to all processes.


Corinna

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Re: Privilege(s) needed to run top command

[Corinna Vinschen]

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On Mar 12 10:13, jwang wrote:
> Understood.  Thanks.
> 
> However, top command used to show load average under non-privileged user
> (till I upgraded cygwin) and I wish to have that back please if I may.

Add your user to the "Performance Monitoring Users" group.


Corinna

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Re: Privilege(s) needed to run top command

[Houder]

On Tue, 12 Mar 2019 18:13:39, Corinna Vinschen  wrote:

> On Mar 12 10:00, jwang wrote:
> > Sir,
> 
> Nope.
> 
> > I download, this morning:
> > 3132 -rw-r--r--  1 james None 3207004 Mar 12 10:50 cygwin-20190312.tar.xz

(Sigh)

James, please, please, read this:

https://cygwin.com/faq.html#faq.what.who

The person you are communicating w/ is Corinna V.

Then, read this, please!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corinne_(name)

Subsequently, read this part of the FAQ:

https://cygwin.com/faq.html#faq.setup.snapshots

An URL to which is referred at the bottom of

https://cygwin.com/snapshots/

Henri


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Re: Privilege(s) needed to run top command

[Achim Gratz]

jwang writes:
> tar -xvf cygwin-20190312.tar.xz

Well, if that didn't give you an error you now have an unused Cygwin
DLL in whatever directory you extracted the tar in.  How about you
actually read how it's done?

https://cygwin.com/faq.html#faq.setup.snapshots


Regards,
Achim.
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Re: Privilege(s) needed to run top command

[Corinna Vinschen]

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On Mar 12 18:39, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
> On Mar 12 18:13, Corinna Vinschen wrote:
> > On Mar 12 10:00, jwang wrote:
> > > Sir,
> > 
> > Nope.
> > 
> > > I download, this morning:
> > > 3132 -rw-r--r--  1 james None 3207004 Mar 12 10:50 cygwin-20190312.tar.xz
> > > 
> > > tar -xvf cygwin-20190312.tar.xz
> > 
> > Where to?  You have to install cygwin1.dll in place of the other
> > cygwin1.dll while having stopped all Cygwin processes.  Just unpacking
> > with tar won't do anything useful.
> > 
> > > then I did: 
> > > 
> > > usr/bin/ps -W|grep httpd
> > 
> > This is really not helpful as far as bug reports go.  Drop the
> > grep, drop the -W.  Just call `ps -e' or `procps -e' or `top'
> > and see what's visible.  Do you see all CYgwin processes?  If so, fine.
> > If not, please report details.  Just don't expect top's load average
> > values to make any sense if you're running under a non-privileged
> > user account.  They will be always 0.
> 
> Btw., `ps -W' only shows non-Cygwin processes visible inside the
> current user session.  This session isolation has been introduced with
> Windows 2003 and since Vista even the console interactive session is
> running in its own session distinct from session 0.
> 
> Task Manager doesn't suffer this problem, but it's not clear to me why.
> Perhaps it connects to a broker service which gives task manager access
> to all processes.

This was complete nonsense.

Actually, the problem was entirely in Cygwin's ps.exe, and it's a
long-standing problem at that.

While the Cygwin DLL collected the complete process list for ps, ps then
didn't print any process it failed to call OpenProcess on.  These are a
*lot* of processes and the result looked a lot like the list of
processes in or connected to the current session.

The reason for this behaviour was that the image path of a process could
only be fetched when opening the process.  Today I found new
functionality since Vista which allows to fetch the image path without
having to open the process, so `ps -W' will print all processes again,
just as in the good old XP times :}

Please try the latest snapshot from https://cygwin.com/snapshots/

Make sure to use ps.exe from that snapshot since this time the ps
executable is affected, not the Cygwin DLL itself.


Corinna

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Re: Privilege(s) needed to run top command

[Andrey Repin]

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Greetings, Corinna Vinschen!

> This was complete nonsense.

> Actually, the problem was entirely in Cygwin's ps.exe, and it's a
> long-standing problem at that.

> While the Cygwin DLL collected the complete process list for ps, ps then
> didn't print any process it failed to call OpenProcess on.  These are a
> *lot* of processes and the result looked a lot like the list of
> processes in or connected to the current session.

> The reason for this behaviour was that the image path of a process could
> only be fetched when opening the process.  Today I found new
> functionality since Vista which allows to fetch the image path without
> having to open the process, so `ps -W' will print all processes again,
> just as in the good old XP times :}

Err, but why? PSAPI was available since… a long time since.
And it is public API except for isolated processes.

> Please try the latest snapshot from https://cygwin.com/snapshots/

> Make sure to use ps.exe from that snapshot since this time the ps
> executable is affected, not the Cygwin DLL itself.


-- 
With best regards,
Andrey Repin
Tuesday, March 12, 2019 23:34:43

Sorry for my terrible english...\0ТÒÐÐ¥\a&ö&ÆVÒ\a&W\x06÷'G3¢\x02\x02\x02\x02\x02\x02\x06‡GG\x03¢òö7–wv–âæ6öÒ÷\a&ö&ÆV×2æ‡FÖÀФd\x15\x13¢\x02\x02\x02\x02\x02\x02\x02\x02\x02\x02\x02\x02\x02\x02\x02\x02\x02\x02\x06‡GG\x03¢òö7–wv–âæ6öÒöf\x17\x12ðФFö7VÖVçF\x17F–öã¢\x02\x02\x02\x02\x02\x02\x02\x02\x06‡GG\x03¢òö7–wv–âæ6öÒöFö72æ‡FÖÀÐ¥Vç7V'67&–&R\x06–æfó¢\x02\x02\x02\x02\x02\x06‡GG\x03¢òö7–wv–âæ6öÒöÖÂò7Vç7V'67&–&R×6–×\x06ÆPРÐ

Re: Privilege(s) needed to run top command

[Corinna Vinschen]

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On Mar 12 23:35, Andrey Repin wrote:
> Greetings, Corinna Vinschen!
> 
> > This was complete nonsense.
> 
> > Actually, the problem was entirely in Cygwin's ps.exe, and it's a
> > long-standing problem at that.
> 
> > While the Cygwin DLL collected the complete process list for ps, ps then
> > didn't print any process it failed to call OpenProcess on.  These are a
> > *lot* of processes and the result looked a lot like the list of
> > processes in or connected to the current session.
> 
> > The reason for this behaviour was that the image path of a process could
> > only be fetched when opening the process.  Today I found new
> > functionality since Vista which allows to fetch the image path without
> > having to open the process, so `ps -W' will print all processes again,
> > just as in the good old XP times :}
> 
> Err, but why? PSAPI was available since… a long time since.
> And it is public API except for isolated processes.

Same problem:

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/desktop/psapi/enumerating-all-processes


Corinna

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Corinna Vinschen
Cygwin Maintainer

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Re: Privilege(s) needed to run top command

[Andrey Repin]

Greetings, Corinna Vinschen!

> On Mar 12 23:35, Andrey Repin wrote:
>> Greetings, Corinna Vinschen!
>> 
>> > This was complete nonsense.
>> 
>> > Actually, the problem was entirely in Cygwin's ps.exe, and it's a
>> > long-standing problem at that.
>> 
>> > While the Cygwin DLL collected the complete process list for ps, ps then
>> > didn't print any process it failed to call OpenProcess on.  These are a
>> > *lot* of processes and the result looked a lot like the list of
>> > processes in or connected to the current session.
>> 
>> > The reason for this behaviour was that the image path of a process could
>> > only be fetched when opening the process.  Today I found new
>> > functionality since Vista which allows to fetch the image path without
>> > having to open the process, so `ps -W' will print all processes again,
>> > just as in the good old XP times :}
>> 
>> Err, but why? PSAPI was available since… a long time since.
>> And it is public API except for isolated processes.

> Same problem:

> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/desktop/psapi/enumerating-all-processes

My bad. I checked the code on hand, but missed that last OpenProcess call.
My code working with visible windows and, indeed, is unable to catch
elevated window's path.


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With best regards,
Andrey Repin
Wednesday, March 13, 2019 0:37:12

Sorry for my terrible english...
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Re: Privilege(s) needed to run top command

[jwang]

Thank you all for your helps.



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Re: Privilege(s) needed to run top command

[jwang]

Update:

top works perfectly if I login to the machine locally as a
non-administrator.

it still does not show load average correctly (always 0) if ssh to the box
as a non-administrator user.

Thank you.



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Re: Privilege(s) needed to run top command

[Corinna Vinschen]

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On Mar 15 03:20, jwang wrote:
> Update:
> 
> top works perfectly if I login to the machine locally as a
> non-administrator.
> 
> it still does not show load average correctly (always 0) if ssh to the box
> as a non-administrator user.

https://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin/2019-03/msg00303.html


Corinna

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Re: Privilege(s) needed to run top command

[jwang]

It is "Windows 10" Home edition - not sure how to do that yet 
Thanks a lot for your help indeed.



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Re: Privilege(s) needed to run top command

[Corinna Vinschen]

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On Mar 15 05:34, jwang wrote:
> It is "Windows 10" Home edition - not sure how to do that yet 
> Thanks a lot for your help indeed.

net localgroup 'Performance Monitor Users' <username> /add


Corinna

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Re: Privilege(s) needed to run top command

[jwang]

Thank you very much.



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Re: Privilege(s) needed to run top command

[jwang]

Thank you greatly.  top works beautifully as it did before:
top - 14:10:07 up 18:38,  1 user,  load average: 1.04, 1.00, 1.00
Tasks:   8 total,   1 running,   7 sleeping,   0 stopped,   0 zombie
%Cpu0  :   0.0/3.2     3[||                                                                    
]
%Cpu1  :   0.0/11.4   11[||||||||                                                              
]
%Cpu2  :   0.0/3.2     3[||                                                                    
]
%Cpu3  :   0.8/3.3     4[|||                                                                   
]
GiB Mem : 60.7/3.834    [                                                                      
]
GiB Swap:  5.1/0.688    [                                           



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Re: Privilege(s) needed to run top command

[Corinna Vinschen]

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On Mar 15 07:11, jwang wrote:
> Thank you greatly.  top works beautifully as it did before:
> top - 14:10:07 up 18:38,  1 user,  load average: 1.04, 1.00, 1.00
> Tasks:   8 total,   1 running,   7 sleeping,   0 stopped,   0 zombie
> %Cpu0  :   0.0/3.2     3[||                                                                    
> ]
> %Cpu1  :   0.0/11.4   11[||||||||                                                              
> ]
> %Cpu2  :   0.0/3.2     3[||                                                                    
> ]
> %Cpu3  :   0.8/3.3     4[|||                                                                   
> ]
> GiB Mem : 60.7/3.834    [                                                                      
> ]
> GiB Swap:  5.1/0.688    [                                           

Great!  I'll release Cygwin 3.0.4 pretty soon now.


Corinna

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