* Cygwin-64 on W10-64 : the only game in town?
@ 2020-11-01 8:49 Fergus Daly
2020-11-01 9:00 ` Duncan Roe
2020-11-02 9:13 ` Corinna Vinschen
0 siblings, 2 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Fergus Daly @ 2020-11-01 8:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 'cygwin@cygwin.com'
With W7 no longer supported, W10-32 supported but no longer provided on new machines (Microsoft states that, "Beginning with Windows 10, version 2004, all new Windows 10 systems will be required to use 64-bit builds and Microsoft will no longer release 32-bit builds for OEM distribution .. the weaker version of Windows 10 has several limitations, like capping out at 3.2GB of RAM and less stringent security measures") and the functionality of Cygwin-32 significantly downplayed on Cygwin's own Home page, that really does leave Cygwin-64 on W10-64 on 64-bit hardware as the sole recommended platform. Yes?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: Cygwin-64 on W10-64 : the only game in town?
2020-11-01 8:49 Cygwin-64 on W10-64 : the only game in town? Fergus Daly
@ 2020-11-01 9:00 ` Duncan Roe
2020-11-01 11:23 ` Hamish McIntyre-Bhatty
2020-11-01 15:20 ` Stephen John Smoogen
2020-11-02 9:13 ` Corinna Vinschen
1 sibling, 2 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Duncan Roe @ 2020-11-01 9:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: cygwin
On Sun, Nov 01, 2020 at 08:49:23AM +0000, cygwin wrote:
> With W7 no longer supported, W10-32 supported but no longer provided on
> new machines (Microsoft states that, "Beginning with Windows 10, version
> 2004, all new Windows 10 systems will be required to use 64-bit builds
> and Microsoft will no longer release 32-bit builds for OEM distribution
> .. the weaker version of Windows 10 has several limitations, like
> capping out at 3.2GB of RAM and less stringent security measures") and
> the functionality of Cygwin-32 significantly downplayed on Cygwin's own
> Home page, that really does leave Cygwin-64 on W10-64 on 64-bit hardware
> as the sole recommended platform. Yes?
>
> --
No, I run Cygwin64 on Win 7. There is an outstanding W7 update, it appeared a
few weeks ago, but I'm not taking it.
Cheers ... Duncan.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: Cygwin-64 on W10-64 : the only game in town?
2020-11-01 9:00 ` Duncan Roe
@ 2020-11-01 11:23 ` Hamish McIntyre-Bhatty
2020-11-01 15:20 ` Stephen John Smoogen
1 sibling, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Hamish McIntyre-Bhatty @ 2020-11-01 11:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: cygwin
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On 01/11/2020 09:00, Duncan Roe wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 01, 2020 at 08:49:23AM +0000, cygwin wrote:
>> With W7 no longer supported, W10-32 supported but no longer provided on
>> new machines (Microsoft states that, "Beginning with Windows 10, version
>> 2004, all new Windows 10 systems will be required to use 64-bit builds
>> and Microsoft will no longer release 32-bit builds for OEM distribution
>> .. the weaker version of Windows 10 has several limitations, like
>> capping out at 3.2GB of RAM and less stringent security measures") and
>> the functionality of Cygwin-32 significantly downplayed on Cygwin's own
>> Home page, that really does leave Cygwin-64 on W10-64 on 64-bit hardware
>> as the sole recommended platform. Yes?
>>
>> --
> No, I run Cygwin64 on Win 7. There is an outstanding W7 update, it appeared a
> few weeks ago, but I'm not taking it.
>
> Cheers ... Duncan.
I test my programs and compiled packages on Windows 10, 8.1 and 7. I
think Vista is still supported by Cygwin too, but last I tried it didn't
work and I can't remember why.
Hamish
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: Cygwin-64 on W10-64 : the only game in town?
2020-11-01 9:00 ` Duncan Roe
2020-11-01 11:23 ` Hamish McIntyre-Bhatty
@ 2020-11-01 15:20 ` Stephen John Smoogen
2020-11-01 16:51 ` Brian Inglis
1 sibling, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Stephen John Smoogen @ 2020-11-01 15:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: cygwin
On Sun, 1 Nov 2020 at 04:02, Duncan Roe <duncan_roe@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 01, 2020 at 08:49:23AM +0000, cygwin wrote:
> > With W7 no longer supported, W10-32 supported but no longer provided on
> > new machines (Microsoft states that, "Beginning with Windows 10, version
> > 2004, all new Windows 10 systems will be required to use 64-bit builds
> > and Microsoft will no longer release 32-bit builds for OEM distribution
> > .. the weaker version of Windows 10 has several limitations, like
> > capping out at 3.2GB of RAM and less stringent security measures") and
> > the functionality of Cygwin-32 significantly downplayed on Cygwin's own
> > Home page, that really does leave Cygwin-64 on W10-64 on 64-bit hardware
> > as the sole recommended platform. Yes?
> >
> > --
> No, I run Cygwin64 on Win 7. There is an outstanding W7 update, it
> appeared a
> few weeks ago, but I'm not taking it.
>
>
The question is nuanced around "what is the recommended platform". Now as
individuals we can recommend anything we want if it works for us.. but we
also aren't expecting to answer all of Fergus's questions when he tries to
get Cygwin working on his system. I think in the end, for the project, the
recommendation would be whatever Corinna recommends as she is the primary
author of the code these days and the one who would be fixing problems
found.
--
Stephen J Smoogen.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: Cygwin-64 on W10-64 : the only game in town?
2020-11-01 15:20 ` Stephen John Smoogen
@ 2020-11-01 16:51 ` Brian Inglis
0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Brian Inglis @ 2020-11-01 16:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: cygwin
On 2020-11-01 08:20, Stephen John Smoogen via Cygwin wrote:
> On Sun, 1 Nov 2020 at 04:02, Duncan Roe wrote:
>> On Sun, Nov 01, 2020 at 08:49:23AM +0000, Fergus Daly wrote:
>>> With W7 no longer supported, W10-32 supported but no longer provided on
>>> new machines (Microsoft states that, "Beginning with Windows 10, version
>>> 2004, all new Windows 10 systems will be required to use 64-bit builds
>>> and Microsoft will no longer release 32-bit builds for OEM distribution
>>> .. the weaker version of Windows 10 has several limitations, like
>>> capping out at 3.2GB of RAM and less stringent security measures") and
>>> the functionality of Cygwin-32 significantly downplayed on Cygwin's own
>>> Home page, that really does leave Cygwin-64 on W10-64 on 64-bit hardware
>>> as the sole recommended platform. Yes?
Cygwin64 is the recommended release, there are no recommended platforms,
although there are minimum requirements for the code to run, and to build the
code: if you can run it under ReactOS on an old Pentium, good on you! ;^>
>> No, I run Cygwin64 on Win 7. There is an outstanding W7 update, it appeared
>> a few weeks ago, but I'm not taking it.
> The question is nuanced around "what is the recommended platform". Now as
> individuals we can recommend anything we want if it works for us.. but we
> also aren't expecting to answer all of Fergus's questions when he tries to
> get Cygwin working on his system. I think in the end, for the project, the
> recommendation would be whatever Corinna recommends as she is the primary
> author of the code these days and the one who would be fixing problems
> found.
That has been determined in the past by the need in a new Wdindows release,
version, or edition, to use a new API, that may not be avoided or skipped for
the oldest versions in a backward-compatible way, as happened when support for
new versions had to be added, so XP support had to be dropped.
--
Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis, Calgary, Alberta, Canada
This email may be disturbing to some readers as it contains
too much technical detail. Reader discretion is advised.
[Data in binary units and prefixes, physical quantities in SI.]
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: Cygwin-64 on W10-64 : the only game in town?
2020-11-01 8:49 Cygwin-64 on W10-64 : the only game in town? Fergus Daly
2020-11-01 9:00 ` Duncan Roe
@ 2020-11-02 9:13 ` Corinna Vinschen
1 sibling, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Corinna Vinschen @ 2020-11-02 9:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: cygwin
On Nov 1 08:49, Fergus Daly via Cygwin wrote:
> With W7 no longer supported, W10-32 supported but no longer provided
> on new machines (Microsoft states that, "Beginning with Windows 10,
> version 2004, all new Windows 10 systems will be required to use
> 64-bit builds and Microsoft will no longer release 32-bit builds for
> OEM distribution .. the weaker version of Windows 10 has several
> limitations, like capping out at 3.2GB of RAM and less stringent
> security measures") and the functionality of Cygwin-32 significantly
> downplayed on Cygwin's own Home page, that really does leave Cygwin-64
> on W10-64 on 64-bit hardware as the sole recommended platform. Yes?
Cygwin still runs on 32 bit and Windows versions down to Vista.
However, since you're asking for a recommendation, some points:
- The limited virtual address space of 32 bit processes is getting
a big problem for a long time now. The more packages and the more
DLLs the distro delivers, the less manageable the situation gets
on 32 bit machines. This includes WOW64 on 64 bit.
- time_t on 32 bit is 32 bit. The effort to change that is not
managable, and it's not worth it, given that usage of 32 bit
systems (including WOW64) is at less than 5%, and dropping.
- Newer Cygwin features are partially unavailable (usually faked) on
older Window versions due to missing API calls.
- Cygwin running on Vista is not going away any time soon. The extra
code required to support Vista (and W7, fwiw) is just a drop in the
bucket, and ripping it out doesn't simplify the code noticably, as for
XP.
- The same can't be said for 32 bit. There's a lot of code involved,
partially assembler code. Getting rid of that code is really
an option at one point, what with Windows dropping 32 bit support...
- Older Windows versions are increasingly getting insecure with
Microsoft stopping updates.
- Windows 10 is not exactly privacy-minded...
Corinna
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
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2020-11-01 8:49 Cygwin-64 on W10-64 : the only game in town? Fergus Daly
2020-11-01 9:00 ` Duncan Roe
2020-11-01 11:23 ` Hamish McIntyre-Bhatty
2020-11-01 15:20 ` Stephen John Smoogen
2020-11-01 16:51 ` Brian Inglis
2020-11-02 9:13 ` Corinna Vinschen
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