RE: Getting indexes?

RE: Getting indexes?

[Gregory Leblanc]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Lee Green [ mailto:eric@badtux.org ]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 8:43 PM
> To: Gregory Leblanc; docbook-tools-discuss@sourceware.cygnus.com
> Subject: RE: Getting indexes?
> 
[snip]
> 
> I'm still ambivalent about the whole Docbook thing. It seems 
> powerful enough,
> but nobody seems to have really put together things so that 
> they're easy to use
> for mere mortals (I can write scripts in my sleep, but that 
> ain't gonna work
> for our technical documentation team!).  On the other hand, 
> the HTML output
> looks pretty decent compared to the output of LaTeX2HTML, 
> which is my current
> method of getting HTML out of structured markup...  On the 
> other hand, I can
> use LyX for writing LaTeX code... hmm... do any of the XML 
> editors work similar
> to LyX? How do Docbook and XML get along? 

Well, recomendations on SGML just went out to the LSB this week (err, maybe
before the weekend, I forget).  Hopefully those will get things a bit more
standardized.  I don't use the output from my stuff too often, so I'm not
sure how to resolve those issues.  You can use LyX and export to Docbook,
but I'm not sure how that works.  I just noticed that DocBook 4.0 is
official, guess it's time to move to XML.  (As of DB4, XML is official)  

I have to agree that the tools that do exist aren't very well put together
to get you up and running (although with a bit of work, it's do-able).
What's a MUCH bigger concern to me is the lack of tools to do anything
except process the DocBook source into other formats.  What about using
DocBook to enhance searches?  How about and OO database?  What about
indexing the document into a larger collection?  I don't see any tools for
these yet.  I've got some ideas about how do to a couple of those, but
they're kinda slow in taking shape.
	Greg

RE: Getting indexes?

[Gregory Leblanc]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Lee Green [ mailto:eric@badtux.org ]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 8:43 PM
> To: Gregory Leblanc; docbook-tools-discuss@sourceware.cygnus.com
> Subject: RE: Getting indexes?
> 
[snip]
> 
> I'm still ambivalent about the whole Docbook thing. It seems 
> powerful enough,
> but nobody seems to have really put together things so that 
> they're easy to use
> for mere mortals (I can write scripts in my sleep, but that 
> ain't gonna work
> for our technical documentation team!).  On the other hand, 
> the HTML output
> looks pretty decent compared to the output of LaTeX2HTML, 
> which is my current
> method of getting HTML out of structured markup...  On the 
> other hand, I can
> use LyX for writing LaTeX code... hmm... do any of the XML 
> editors work similar
> to LyX? How do Docbook and XML get along? 

Well, recomendations on SGML just went out to the LSB this week (err, maybe
before the weekend, I forget).  Hopefully those will get things a bit more
standardized.  I don't use the output from my stuff too often, so I'm not
sure how to resolve those issues.  You can use LyX and export to Docbook,
but I'm not sure how that works.  I just noticed that DocBook 4.0 is
official, guess it's time to move to XML.  (As of DB4, XML is official)  

I have to agree that the tools that do exist aren't very well put together
to get you up and running (although with a bit of work, it's do-able).
What's a MUCH bigger concern to me is the lack of tools to do anything
except process the DocBook source into other formats.  What about using
DocBook to enhance searches?  How about and OO database?  What about
indexing the document into a larger collection?  I don't see any tools for
these yet.  I've got some ideas about how do to a couple of those, but
they're kinda slow in taking shape.
	Greg

Re: Getting indexes?

[Eric Bischoff]

[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
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Gregory Leblanc wrote:
> 
> Well, recomendations on SGML just went out to the LSB this week (err, maybe
> before the weekend, I forget).  Hopefully those will get things a bit more
> standardized.

Hopefully. I don't have any feedback yet.

>  I don't use the output from my stuff too often, so I'm not
> sure how to resolve those issues.  You can use LyX and export to Docbook,
> but I'm not sure how that works.  I just noticed that DocBook 4.0 is
> official, guess it's time to move to XML.  (As of DB4, XML is official)

Yes, and thanks to Norman Walsh, it comes with XSL style
sheets.

> I have to agree that the tools that do exist aren't very well put together
> to get you up and running (although with a bit of work, it's do-able).

We have spent some time on rewriting them in a new project
called "docbook-utils" that should if Mark accepts become
part of the DocBook tools. I am waiting for Mark Galassi's
green light to put them on the DocBook-tools FTP server at
Sourceware, along with a new "LSB-proposals-conformant"
packaging (which does, by the way, put collateindex.pl in
/usr/bin ;-) ).

> What's a MUCH bigger concern to me is the lack of tools to do anything
> except process the DocBook source into other formats.  What about using
> DocBook to enhance searches?  How about and OO database?  What about
> indexing the document into a larger collection?  I don't see any tools for
> these yet.  I've got some ideas about how do to a couple of those, but
> they're kinda slow in taking shape.

Yes.

We already added a script, sgmldiff.pl, to compare the
markup of two SGML files, regardless of the text between the
tags. It's really precious for translations - now I even
wonder how we could have been living without it at KDE.

I have on the TODO list for docbook-utils list :
- conversion from legacy input formats (texinfo, linuxdoc,
...)
- wrapper for collateindex.pl.
- extraction of the contents of a given tag from command
line
  (precious for <releaseinfo>, <keyword>, <date>, ...)
  (more SGML-aware than a simple "grep")
It seems to rejoin pretty much what you are requesting ;-).
I already have people volunterring for the first two points,
and I might write the third one.

We just have set up a docbook-utils@bazar.conectiva.com.br
developers mailing list to accelerate the development.

-- 
 Éric Bischoff   -   mailto:ebisch@cybercable.tm.fr
 __________________________________________________
                                           \^o~_.
     .~.                           ______  /( __ )
     /V\         Toys story         \__  \/  (  V
   //   \\                            \__| (__=v
  /(     )\                        |\___/     )
    ^^-^^                           \_____(  )
     Tux                        Konqui     \__=v
 __________________________________________________

Re: Getting indexes?

[Eric Bischoff]

[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2830 bytes --]

Gregory Leblanc wrote:
> 
> Well, recomendations on SGML just went out to the LSB this week (err, maybe
> before the weekend, I forget).  Hopefully those will get things a bit more
> standardized.

Hopefully. I don't have any feedback yet.

>  I don't use the output from my stuff too often, so I'm not
> sure how to resolve those issues.  You can use LyX and export to Docbook,
> but I'm not sure how that works.  I just noticed that DocBook 4.0 is
> official, guess it's time to move to XML.  (As of DB4, XML is official)

Yes, and thanks to Norman Walsh, it comes with XSL style
sheets.

> I have to agree that the tools that do exist aren't very well put together
> to get you up and running (although with a bit of work, it's do-able).

We have spent some time on rewriting them in a new project
called "docbook-utils" that should if Mark accepts become
part of the DocBook tools. I am waiting for Mark Galassi's
green light to put them on the DocBook-tools FTP server at
Sourceware, along with a new "LSB-proposals-conformant"
packaging (which does, by the way, put collateindex.pl in
/usr/bin ;-) ).

> What's a MUCH bigger concern to me is the lack of tools to do anything
> except process the DocBook source into other formats.  What about using
> DocBook to enhance searches?  How about and OO database?  What about
> indexing the document into a larger collection?  I don't see any tools for
> these yet.  I've got some ideas about how do to a couple of those, but
> they're kinda slow in taking shape.

Yes.

We already added a script, sgmldiff.pl, to compare the
markup of two SGML files, regardless of the text between the
tags. It's really precious for translations - now I even
wonder how we could have been living without it at KDE.

I have on the TODO list for docbook-utils list :
- conversion from legacy input formats (texinfo, linuxdoc,
...)
- wrapper for collateindex.pl.
- extraction of the contents of a given tag from command
line
  (precious for <releaseinfo>, <keyword>, <date>, ...)
  (more SGML-aware than a simple "grep")
It seems to rejoin pretty much what you are requesting ;-).
I already have people volunterring for the first two points,
and I might write the third one.

We just have set up a docbook-utils@bazar.conectiva.com.br
developers mailing list to accelerate the development.

-- 
 Éric Bischoff   -   mailto:ebisch@cybercable.tm.fr
 __________________________________________________
                                           \^o~_.
     .~.                           ______  /( __ )
     /V\         Toys story         \__  \/  (  V
   //   \\                            \__| (__=v
  /(     )\                        |\___/     )
    ^^-^^                           \_____(  )
     Tux                        Konqui     \__=v
 __________________________________________________

RE: Getting indexes?

[Gregory Leblanc]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Lee Green [ mailto:eric@badtux.org ]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 3:46 PM
> To: docbook-tools-discuss@sourceware.cygnus.com
> Subject: Getting indexes?
> 
> 
> I'm using the stuff that came on Red Hat 6.2, which appears 
> to be closely
> related to the docbook-tools collection. Does anybody have 
> the foggiest notion
> how I can create an index? It's a bit depressing to fill my 
> document with
> <indexterm> tags and then see nada happening :-(. 

Check out the "stylesheets" package.  There is a utility called
'collateindex.pl', which on my system is in /usr/bin.  
	Greg

RE: Getting indexes?

[Gregory Leblanc]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Lee Green [ mailto:eric@badtux.org ]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 3:46 PM
> To: docbook-tools-discuss@sourceware.cygnus.com
> Subject: Getting indexes?
> 
> 
> I'm using the stuff that came on Red Hat 6.2, which appears 
> to be closely
> related to the docbook-tools collection. Does anybody have 
> the foggiest notion
> how I can create an index? It's a bit depressing to fill my 
> document with
> <indexterm> tags and then see nada happening :-(. 

Check out the "stylesheets" package.  There is a utility called
'collateindex.pl', which on my system is in /usr/bin.  
	Greg

Getting indexes?

[Eric Lee Green]

I'm using the stuff that came on Red Hat 6.2, which appears to be closely
related to the docbook-tools collection. Does anybody have the foggiest notion
how I can create an index? It's a bit depressing to fill my document with
<indexterm> tags and then see nada happening :-(. 

 -- 
Eric Lee Green      There is No Conspiracy
eric@badtux.org     http://www.badtux.org  

Getting indexes?

[Eric Lee Green]

I'm using the stuff that came on Red Hat 6.2, which appears to be closely
related to the docbook-tools collection. Does anybody have the foggiest notion
how I can create an index? It's a bit depressing to fill my document with
<indexterm> tags and then see nada happening :-(. 

 -- 
Eric Lee Green      There is No Conspiracy
eric@badtux.org     http://www.badtux.org  

RE: Getting indexes?

[Gregory Leblanc]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gregory Leblanc [ mailto:GLeblanc@cu-portland.edu ]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 4:53 PM
> To: docbook-tools-discuss@sourceware.cygnus.com
> Subject: RE: Getting indexes?
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Eric Lee Green [ mailto:eric@badtux.org ]
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 3:46 PM
> > To: docbook-tools-discuss@sourceware.cygnus.com
> > Subject: Getting indexes?
> > 
> > 
> > I'm using the stuff that came on Red Hat 6.2, which appears 
> > to be closely
> > related to the docbook-tools collection. Does anybody have 
> > the foggiest notion
> > how I can create an index? It's a bit depressing to fill my 
> > document with
> > <indexterm> tags and then see nada happening :-(. 
> 
> Check out the "stylesheets" package.  There is a utility called
> 'collateindex.pl', which on my system is in /usr/bin.  

Uhm, woah, I must have been completely asleep.  /usr/bin is definately where
it is NOT.  

[gleblanc@grego1 gleblanc]$ rpm -qf
/usr/lib/sgml/stylesheets/nwalsh-modular/bin/collateindex.pl 
stylesheets-1.54.13rh-1
[gleblanc@grego1 gleblanc]$ 

Try that as the correct location.  It's been a long day, sorry,
	Greg

RE: Getting indexes?

[Gregory Leblanc]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gregory Leblanc [ mailto:GLeblanc@cu-portland.edu ]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 4:53 PM
> To: docbook-tools-discuss@sourceware.cygnus.com
> Subject: RE: Getting indexes?
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Eric Lee Green [ mailto:eric@badtux.org ]
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 3:46 PM
> > To: docbook-tools-discuss@sourceware.cygnus.com
> > Subject: Getting indexes?
> > 
> > 
> > I'm using the stuff that came on Red Hat 6.2, which appears 
> > to be closely
> > related to the docbook-tools collection. Does anybody have 
> > the foggiest notion
> > how I can create an index? It's a bit depressing to fill my 
> > document with
> > <indexterm> tags and then see nada happening :-(. 
> 
> Check out the "stylesheets" package.  There is a utility called
> 'collateindex.pl', which on my system is in /usr/bin.  

Uhm, woah, I must have been completely asleep.  /usr/bin is definately where
it is NOT.  

[gleblanc@grego1 gleblanc]$ rpm -qf
/usr/lib/sgml/stylesheets/nwalsh-modular/bin/collateindex.pl 
stylesheets-1.54.13rh-1
[gleblanc@grego1 gleblanc]$ 

Try that as the correct location.  It's been a long day, sorry,
	Greg

RE: Getting indexes?

[Eric Lee Green]

On Tue, 23 May 2000, Gregory Leblanc wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > > how I can create an index? It's a bit depressing to fill my 
> > > document with
> > > <indexterm> tags and then see nada happening :-(. 

> Uhm, woah, I must have been completely asleep.  /usr/bin is definately where
> it is NOT.  
> 
> [gleblanc@grego1 gleblanc]$ rpm -qf
> /usr/lib/sgml/stylesheets/nwalsh-modular/bin/collateindex.pl 

Thanks. I looked in the doc directory under the nwalsh-modular tree, and found
a sort of "mini-howto" on how to do it. I ended up having to write a script to
handle it, though. Also had to change the db2dvi script that came with Red Hat
6.2 to run jadetex as many times as necessary to resolve the index, otherwise I
got "??" page numbers on the dvi/postscript version. 

The HTML output works great. Having a tad of a problem with the DVI/Postscript
output still, though. Bunch of page numbers in the index have come out as
"-999". Don't think so, dude :-). Anybody have any suggestions there?

I'm still ambivalent about the whole Docbook thing. It seems powerful enough,
but nobody seems to have really put together things so that they're easy to use
for mere mortals (I can write scripts in my sleep, but that ain't gonna work
for our technical documentation team!).  On the other hand, the HTML output
looks pretty decent compared to the output of LaTeX2HTML, which is my current
method of getting HTML out of structured markup...  On the other hand, I can
use LyX for writing LaTeX code... hmm... do any of the XML editors work similar
to LyX? How do Docbook and XML get along? 

-- 
Eric Lee Green      There is No Conspiracy
eric@badtux.org     http://www.badtux.org  

RE: Getting indexes?

[Eric Lee Green]

On Tue, 23 May 2000, Gregory Leblanc wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > > how I can create an index? It's a bit depressing to fill my 
> > > document with
> > > <indexterm> tags and then see nada happening :-(. 

> Uhm, woah, I must have been completely asleep.  /usr/bin is definately where
> it is NOT.  
> 
> [gleblanc@grego1 gleblanc]$ rpm -qf
> /usr/lib/sgml/stylesheets/nwalsh-modular/bin/collateindex.pl 

Thanks. I looked in the doc directory under the nwalsh-modular tree, and found
a sort of "mini-howto" on how to do it. I ended up having to write a script to
handle it, though. Also had to change the db2dvi script that came with Red Hat
6.2 to run jadetex as many times as necessary to resolve the index, otherwise I
got "??" page numbers on the dvi/postscript version. 

The HTML output works great. Having a tad of a problem with the DVI/Postscript
output still, though. Bunch of page numbers in the index have come out as
"-999". Don't think so, dude :-). Anybody have any suggestions there?

I'm still ambivalent about the whole Docbook thing. It seems powerful enough,
but nobody seems to have really put together things so that they're easy to use
for mere mortals (I can write scripts in my sleep, but that ain't gonna work
for our technical documentation team!).  On the other hand, the HTML output
looks pretty decent compared to the output of LaTeX2HTML, which is my current
method of getting HTML out of structured markup...  On the other hand, I can
use LyX for writing LaTeX code... hmm... do any of the XML editors work similar
to LyX? How do Docbook and XML get along? 

-- 
Eric Lee Green      There is No Conspiracy
eric@badtux.org     http://www.badtux.org