new tools coming and a couple of renamings

new tools coming and a couple of renamings

[Mark Galassi]

Dear Docbook Tools enthusiasts,

After a long period of "no innovation", Eric Bischoff and I (Eric did
most of the work) are about to put out an up-to-date, orthogonal and
cleaned-up release of the docbook tools.

More details will come out soon, but meanwhile I need to poll all of
you on one issue:

Some people have been asking us to please change the names db2html,
db2ps, ... into docbook2html, docbook2ps, ....

I like the idea for the following reasons:

1. The db2* names were not really thought out: they were quick handy
   scripts at Cygnus.

2. The letters "db" come up in "debug", "database", "docbook", and who
   knows what else.  "db2html" is particularly dangerous.

3. I'm not usually impressed with abbreviations.  They make things
   hard to remember and don't save that much time.

So my proposal is to deprecate the db2* names in favor of the
docbook2* names.  This phase-out would be extremely slow, since
thousands of build procedures use the db2* scripts now.

Anyone wanna contribute an opinion?

Re: new tools coming and a couple of renamings

[Bill Brooks]

On 20 Jul 2000, Mark Galassi wrote:

> 
> Dear Docbook Tools enthusiasts,
> 
> After a long period of "no innovation", Eric Bischoff and I (Eric did
> most of the work) are about to put out an up-to-date, orthogonal and
> cleaned-up release of the docbook tools.

Is it going to be able to compile from source on something other than
RedHat linux or close cousins?

Bill

Re: new tools coming and a couple of renamings

[Mark Galassi]

    Bill> Is it going to be able to compile from source on something
    Bill> other than RedHat linux or close cousins?

Indeed it will compile on all sorts of things.  Thanks to Eric's
cleanup I feel like it's actually worth the effort.

Our intention is to produce tarballs, and I got your mail as I was
adding configure.in/Makefile.am files to the docbook-utils package (a
process known as "autobarfing a package").

Re: new tools coming and a couple of renamings

[Eric Bischoff]

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Mark Galassi wrote:
> 
>     Bill> Is it going to be able to compile from source on something
>     Bill> other than RedHat linux or close cousins?
> 
> Indeed it will compile on all sorts of things.  Thanks to Eric's
> cleanup I feel like it's actually worth the effort.
> 
> Our intention is to produce tarballs, and I got your mail as I was
> adding configure.in/Makefile.am files to the docbook-utils package (a
> process known as "autobarfing a package").

Yes, it does compile on a wide range of platforms. It even installs and
works ;-).

What *does not work* is to install the binary RPM on a non-RedHat
cousin.

But if you rebuild the source package on a given platform:

	# rpm -ba SPECS/twiddledoodle.spec

then the generated binary RPM will normally work on that platform. Don't
forget to send the source RPM to the maintainers of this distribution
and to tell them that it worked out - normally they love your doing
their work ;-).

Same for Debian systems, if you repackage the tarball, thanks to Mark's
efforts in the automake/autoconf area.

-- 
 Éric Bischoff   -   mailto:ebisch@cybercable.tm.fr
 __________________________________________________
                                           \^o~_.
     .~.                           ______  /( __ )
     /V\         Toys story         \__  \/  (  V
   //   \\                            \__| (__=v
  /(     )\                        |\___/     )
    ^^-^^                           \_____(  )
     Tux                        Konqui     \__=v
 __________________________________________________

Re: new tools coming and a couple of renamings

[Norman Walsh]

/ Mark Galassi <rosalia@galassi.org> was heard to say:
| Anyone wanna contribute an opinion?

+1

                                        Be seeing you,
                                          norm

-- 
Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com> | The shoe that fits one person pinches
http://nwalsh.com/            | another; there is no recipe for living
                              | that suits all cases.--Jung

Re: new tools coming and a couple of renamings

[esr]

Mark Galassi <rosalia@galassi.org>:
> So my proposal is to deprecate the db2* names in favor of the
> docbook2* names.  This phase-out would be extremely slow, since
> thousands of build procedures use the db2* scripts now.
> 
> Anyone wanna contribute an opinion?

What?  You want to make me type six whole extra letters for *each* *name*?

:-)

Seriously, I would probably be firm that it ain't worth the hassle if
it weren't for the fact that that "db" prefix looks like it has
something to do with databases.  Removing ambiguity is good.  On the
other hand, it's proper Unix tradition to have short names for a
reason -- it saves typing for hapless fumble-fingers like me.

So I'm just a touch on the negative side of neutral on this one.  We'd
say "-0" in Python-land.
-- 
		<a href=" http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr ">Eric S. Raymond</a>

The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any
member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm
to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not a sufficient
warrant
	-- John Stuart Mill, "On Liberty", 1859

Re: new tools coming and a couple of renamings

[Sylvan Ravinet]

Hi folks,

On Fri, 21 Jul 2000 esr@thyrsus.com wrote:

> something to do with databases.  Removing ambiguity is good.  On the
> other hand, it's proper Unix tradition to have short names for a
> reason -- it saves typing for hapless fumble-fingers like me.

bash and tab-completion work well with that kind of pb, imho.
So long or short names, that's all the same for me.

+1

Eagerly waiting fo this new release,

-Sylvan

--
Do, or do not. There's no try. -Yoda
Sylvan Ravinet: http://www.ravinet.com/sylvan/contact

Re: new tools coming and a couple of renamings

[Sylvan Ravinet]

Hi folks,

On Fri, 21 Jul 2000 esr@thyrsus.com wrote:

> something to do with databases.  Removing ambiguity is good.  On the
> other hand, it's proper Unix tradition to have short names for a
> reason -- it saves typing for hapless fumble-fingers like me.

bash and tab-completion work well with that kind of pb, imho.
So long or short names, that's all the same for me.

+1

Eagerly waiting fo this new release,

-Sylvan

--
Do, or do not. There's no try. -Yoda
Sylvan Ravinet: http://www.ravinet.com/sylvan/contact

Re: new tools coming and a couple of renamings

[Eric Lee Green]

On Fri, 21 Jul 2000, esr@thyrsus.com wrote:
> Mark Galassi <rosalia@galassi.org>:
> > So my proposal is to deprecate the db2* names in favor of the
> > docbook2* names.  This phase-out would be extremely slow, since
> > thousands of build procedures use the db2* scripts now.
>
> something to do with databases.  Removing ambiguity is good.  On the
> other hand, it's proper Unix tradition to have short names for a
> reason -- it saves typing for hapless fumble-fingers like me.

'db' is too much like a database name. 'docbook' is too long. How about "docb"?
as in,  "docb2html" etc.? Yeah, it's just 3 characters shorter, but it appears
to be the shortest unambiguous name... clearly says the command has something
to do with docs, and the b is clue enough that it's dealing with docbook. 

Alternately, "doc2html" etc... hmm...  bit ambigous there. Might make me think
it's a generic x-format doc to html translater....

 -- 
Eric Lee Green      There is No Conspiracy
eric@badtux.org     http://www.badtux.org  

Re: new tools coming and a couple of renamings

[Jorge Godoy]

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>>>>> "esr" == esr  <esr@thyrsus.com> writes:

    esr> Seriously, I would probably be firm that it ain't worth the
    esr> hassle if it weren't for the fact that that "db" prefix looks
    esr> like it has something to do with databases.  Removing
    esr> ambiguity is good.  On the other hand, it's proper Unix
    esr> tradition to have short names for a reason -- it saves typing
    esr> for hapless fumble-fingers like me.

C'mon Eric!

You can make aliases for these commands. It will only cost you extra
typing once. :-) 

Unix is wonderful in it's resources. Let's not just worry with long
names if it can be solved with extra aliases. 

Another ambiguity that was solved by choosing this name is the
association with IBM's DB2. 


See you,
-- 
Godoy. <godoy@conectiva.com>

Departamento de Publicações       Conectiva S.A.
Publishing Department             Conectiva Inc.

RE: new tools coming and a couple of renamings

[Gregory Leblanc]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Galassi [ mailto:rosalia@galassi.org ]
> Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2000 9:55 PM
> To: Docbook Tools discussion list
> Subject: new tools coming and a couple of renamings
> 
> Dear Docbook Tools enthusiasts,
> 
> After a long period of "no innovation", Eric Bischoff and I (Eric did
> most of the work) are about to put out an up-to-date, orthogonal and
> cleaned-up release of the docbook tools.
> 
> More details will come out soon, but meanwhile I need to poll all of
> you on one issue:
> 
> Some people have been asking us to please change the names db2html,
> db2ps, ... into docbook2html, docbook2ps, ....
> 
> I like the idea for the following reasons:
> 
> 1. The db2* names were not really thought out: they were quick handy
>    scripts at Cygnus.
> 
> 2. The letters "db" come up in "debug", "database", "docbook", and who
>    knows what else.  "db2html" is particularly dangerous.
> 
> 3. I'm not usually impressed with abbreviations.  They make things
>    hard to remember and don't save that much time.
> 
> So my proposal is to deprecate the db2* names in favor of the
> docbook2* names.  This phase-out would be extremely slow, since
> thousands of build procedures use the db2* scripts now.
> 
> Anyone wanna contribute an opinion?

I'm all for the name change, as I always think "IBM's premier database (DB2)
converted into html" rather than "DocBook converted into html".  And if
people want to keep the old names, they just edit their .profile and add
some aliases.  Later,
	Grego